..

Sounds like you didn't do a very good job negotiating your contract.

This is nuts , you people complain about your diapers changed !!!!! Its not the AMA that needs change its your government that needs to go !!!!!

next we all will need papers to go from one state to the other ! Oh what isn't that called nazi-ism ?!!!!!!

Doolittle

From what I see and hear their is a river of contempt for the US government flowing across this country.
I am quite sure that I will not see it in my lifetime, but when this river over flows its banks you will see massive change.

I'm fairly sure the only place you will get wet in the "river of discontent" is here on the internet. I haven't seen much of it in the real world. In fact more people have a better life today than anywhere, anytime in history.

The most serious problem American poor people face is obesity.

So many of these posts assume the AMA did not "do its job" in the run up to this regulation. I think they made a huge, if unsuccessful, effort to prevent this from happening. As for throwing them all out because they didn't do something you thought they could have done, I would like to say that I have never missed an election for Congress where I live, and I am yet to vote for someone who won the election from my district. (I have always voted for a major party candidate, too.) My point: just because your system doesn't work exactly the way you want, it doesn't mean that it is a poor system.

+1. Great comments. The other part of the "throw the bums out" call that some like to throw out there, is who is going to replace these people? I've yet to see a single person who said "throw them out" say that they would take the job, or better yet offer any practical solutions.

Would it be possible to start a new organization just for Traditional RC Flyers without getting dragged into court by a scornful AMA...?

On what grounds would/could they sue ? If enough big clubs, members and major events dropped them and went with the new organization it would cause a whirlwind in the hobby .

Connect the dots:
- To register you must certify that you have read (and will comply with) all of the restrictions. (You KNOW what they are!)
- You must provide a credit card which will (supposedly) verify your identity.
- If you are caught doing naughty things you can be traced using the registration ID. And, since you certified you KNEW the restrictions you can be prosecuted.
- Local law enforcement has been enlisted for additional support. (E.g., caught without a valid reg # and you can be prosecuted.)
- Punishment can be severe.

Using an AMA number does not satisfy the legal requirement that you read and KNEW the restrictions, nor does it guarantee your identity.

Will it stop the idiots? Most likely not. Will it slow them down? Perhaps to some degree. We can only hope. The Feds started a nationwide "information" campaign which the AMA could not do.

Will an AMA number suffice in the future? Most likely not:
- Govt reluctance to share data.
- No guarantee of the veracity of AMA’s information.
- No positive identification factor on AMA’s part.
- Legality issue (proof you KNEW restrictions).
- Difficulty in computer interface.


IMHO the Feds actually did a decent job on this one. I don’t have a problem with the process.

And, you get your 5 bucks back. Renew in three years....such a deal! Don't think that AMA did such a bad job either. Could have been worse.

FW: "On what grounds would/could they sue ? If enough big clubs, members and major events dropped them and went with the new organization it would cause a whirlwind in the hobby ."

CP. "Would it be possible to start a new organization just for Traditional RC Flyers without getting dragged into court by a scornful AMA...? "


They would have no cause of action, of course that doesn't stop a lot of people from suing. They basically have the monopoly by default. Nobody else will organize and try to make a go of it. The last time that happened was 20 years ago and that failed. There is nothing that is stopping any entrepreneur from creating their own AMA like organization. I said in this or another thread that this is something that the group of 14 guys who wrote the letter to the AMA should have been considering. They certainly have knowledge of the industry, and have contacts with others with similar interests. Let's face it, from a landowners perspective, they don't care if it's the AMA or some other adhoc group that is providing the insurance, they just want to be covered. So if a group can provide as much ( and perhaps even sweeten the pot by getting more coverage), I bet there would be plenty of placed that would take that coverage in liue of the AMAs. But then it would be up to the club and it's members to decide if this new org is going to provide the same levels (or more) of insurance to them as well. If what some people say is true, that the AMA is only about insurance, well then it should be easy to get a good rate. No magazine, no lobbying, no HQ, no lavish cars and lifestyles. Make it all about the insurance.

I don't believe they would be able to find available coverage, at the limits that the AMA currently offer, at nearly the same price as the AMA does, and that's not counting all the other things the AMA dues pay for. I'm talking straight liability coverage only, not medical, theft etc etc.

So why hasn't anyone done anything about this in 20 years?

No real need to do anything in the past. Now it seems maybe there is a need. I am sure there is similar affordable coverage out there to be found.
Some interesting numbers to try and find would be:
How many members who had a RC accident actually benefited from the ama insurance paying either fully or partially.
How may clubs actually had their ama insurance pay out for damages caused by said club ?
I am thinking those numbers would be low.

Apparently there was a need in the past as the SFA gave it a go. Of course they were business (for profit), and the AMA wasn't. It was one of several differences. But anyway, I don't think it would be that easy to get a similar quote for just the liability coverage. Any new group wouldn't have loss histories to present for consideration, so initially the rates would be crazy high. of course if the new "CBO" was willing to self insure, that might make it easier. Either way, any landowner would be interested in the bottom line..how much am I covered for. I would think the new members of the CBO would be wondering as well.

I looked back in the old old AMA threads and the more things change the more they stay the same. Almost identical issues and complaints (minus the drones of course), but other than the SFA it doesn't look like anyone ever made a go of it. If there was ever at time to do something I would think it would be now.

The AMA was part of making this rule happen....Page 72, Sec 336, "Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this sub-title, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft"

Where is the AMA telling the FAA where they can stick it with a court order?

Instead of removing the AMA leadership, reorganize the AMA to only provide insurance, The Model Aviation magazine (ban all advertising from the magazine), and provide the members with their AMA cards. I believe the AMA should be able to handle these items with out any problem. Other than the aforementioned items the AMA would have no other duties.

So 80 years of model aviation interest and advocacy goes away, poof...so that they can become an insurance company? Why should the AMA become an insurance company again? Don't we already have those things...insurance companies? So no site assistance, no advocacy on behalf of the hobby, no educational programs....no nothing, just insurance?

FYI, that would still require leadership roles, which of course would be filled with people who would be criticized for anything they did.

Better yet, why not start your own organization and do the same thing? Then you can put the AMA out of business. Insurance is a high margin item and modelers are extremely frugal so offering it for just a few dollars less and you'll have millions of customers. Can you say billionaire?

By no means am I advocating putting the AMA out of business, I'm just saying let them do what they do best: The Model Aviation magazine (ban all advertising from the magazine), and provide the members with their AMA cards. I believe the AMA should be able to handle these items with out any problem. Other than the aforementioned items the AMA would have no other duties." Back in the early 60's when I first joined the AMA they were great I only needed them for my membership insurance and to pick up my trophies at the nationals...they were great!!! The AMA needs to get out of the "Big Business" mentality and just do what they do best.

When you're in charge you can do whatever you want. Well, almost, maybe, who knows. Run for office and give it a go.

I have no interest in being involved with the decision making process within the AMA....way too much hassle for such little reward!!

And there you are. Drop AMA down to the status of a newsletter, providing your insurance and trophees, and passing out cards. You don't want an organization to help with flying site retention, club organization, safety (or any other kind of) training, hobby shop assistance, all the various special interest groups, standing with us where they can (no, I don't consider them omnipotent, just very helpful), running interference where they can (also known as keeping BIG BROTHER as far away as possible), or any of the dozens of other things they do right now - you just want your insurance & trophees, and you aren't willing to do even one thing to actually HELP, even for that little bit.

I'm glad I'm not where you are.

So you want others to do all the work, but you want all the benefit of their hard work?

yes...kinda my read too. AMA is great to fulfill his immediate needs, but is rendered useless for everything else. Narcissism at it's finest.

I'm not dropping the AMA anywhere I just saying they didn't do a good job where it counts for whatever reason so let's get back to basics at what they are good at.