AMA executive council accountability
12-31-2015, 05:46 AM
#103
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
So, when the AMA was not invited to testify,
What was there response to us?
Or do you believe the have no obligation to keep us informed?
Were they vocal?
Outraged ?
Bothered?
Did the AMA express any disappoint, shock , indignation over not being invited in the MA magazine?
Any e-mails ?
I don't remember if they did or did not.
Should they have communicated anything to us about their absence?
My use of the terms invited or attended was in response to language used in other posts.
How could I blame the AMA for not being invited?
I could blame them for not telling us about it, or not wanting to attend.
But splitting hairs is your way
Your really are concerned with blaming someone aren't you?
But the AMA is not a someone , is it?
You kind of lost sight of that.
It is a organization, of people, who are entrusted with a fiduciary responsibility.
That responsibility is to represent our goals provide us with insurance , information in a monthly magazine and emails.
It is an entity, not a person, even though it is comprised of people.
But you insist on anthropomorphizing this entity solely to prove your point and then you classify people who are anti-AMA as
being infected with rabies. Again you revert to your type which is to employ ad hominem argumentation to bolster your position.
Something, I believe, I have not done in any of these posts.
As clever as you may be, I do not think you are as clever as you consider yourself to be.
As far as providing a list of all the "folks" your reference,(what was this hearing held in a barn) who "attended" (why the ") but did not testify,
I have done enough of your homework for you. I think you are fully capable of finding the information you want on your own.
Remember, when you do it yourself , that builds self-esteem.
So please, and I am not blaming you or accusing you, imputing ,for not doing it on your own, yet, feel better now.
Do it yourself.
What was there response to us?
Or do you believe the have no obligation to keep us informed?
Were they vocal?
Outraged ?
Bothered?
Did the AMA express any disappoint, shock , indignation over not being invited in the MA magazine?
Any e-mails ?
I don't remember if they did or did not.
Should they have communicated anything to us about their absence?
My use of the terms invited or attended was in response to language used in other posts.
How could I blame the AMA for not being invited?
I could blame them for not telling us about it, or not wanting to attend.
But splitting hairs is your way
Your really are concerned with blaming someone aren't you?
But the AMA is not a someone , is it?
You kind of lost sight of that.
It is a organization, of people, who are entrusted with a fiduciary responsibility.
That responsibility is to represent our goals provide us with insurance , information in a monthly magazine and emails.
It is an entity, not a person, even though it is comprised of people.
But you insist on anthropomorphizing this entity solely to prove your point and then you classify people who are anti-AMA as
being infected with rabies. Again you revert to your type which is to employ ad hominem argumentation to bolster your position.
Something, I believe, I have not done in any of these posts.
As clever as you may be, I do not think you are as clever as you consider yourself to be.
As far as providing a list of all the "folks" your reference,(what was this hearing held in a barn) who "attended" (why the ") but did not testify,
I have done enough of your homework for you. I think you are fully capable of finding the information you want on your own.
Remember, when you do it yourself , that builds self-esteem.
So please, and I am not blaming you or accusing you, imputing ,for not doing it on your own, yet, feel better now.
Do it yourself.
12-31-2015, 05:50 AM
#105
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I believe that even though several of those on this thread are preaching compromise ("even though it sucks"), and give in because it's no big deal, we should continue fight the unwinnable fight, try to stuff the genie back in the bottle or whatever we have to do. Here's why -
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
12-31-2015, 07:57 AM
#106
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http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/02/th...unenforceable/
The task force only met for a total of 3 days. The original plan didn't require cbo members to register.
Looks to me like the FAA needs to answer to the citizens.
The task force only met for a total of 3 days. The original plan didn't require cbo members to register.
Looks to me like the FAA needs to answer to the citizens.
Last edited by TimJ; 12-31-2015 at 08:08 AM.
12-31-2015, 08:22 AM
#108
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Location: TITUSVILLE FLORIDA NY
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If you are going to make objections for me and then answer then for me,
with your own reasons
You can post to yourself and go answer yourself
You really are quite dishonest in your argumentation
I hope this dishonesty begins and ends with these postings
You are really a funny
"that wants the AMA to do everything, be everywhere, and cater to your every need and desire, all the while not raising dues,"
Requiring an organization to fulfill their fiduciary responsibility you equate with catering to my every need and desire.
As far as catering to my needs and desires?
Does the AMA do "catering"?
"all the while not raising dues,"
I never mentioned dues, I never objected to a raise in dues, "we don't need no stinkin dues"(see Treasure of Sierra Madre)
So do you feel that a raise in dues would ameliorate the current situation? Don't throw out distractions, to support your argument you need all the distraction you can create, use your distractions wisely.
Do others take you seriously? Seriously?
"then illogically blame them when everything doesn't go your way. That's not who they are, that's not what they do.
There is that "blame" word again
Did Mommy criticize and frequently blame you for leaving the cap off the toothpaste tube?
Your earlier posts did not contain quotes that I never made, but your more recent ones do.
Your use of the absolute "everything" is very diagnostic of yourself. It is difficult to attain an agreement with people who speak in absolutes
I don't mean the vodka.
You accused me of desperation in my early posts,
You have raised desperation to an art form.
So you want us to support the AMA and countenance what they are doing?
You want us not to criticize the AMAs contradictory policies?
You want us to lower our expectations regarding the AMAs fiduciary responsibility?
You do not want us to support the lawsuit against the FAA?
You do not want us to encourage others to write their congressman?
You want us to accept reality as you see it?
If that is want you want,
answer this
Will that protect our permission to fly?
with your own reasons
You can post to yourself and go answer yourself
You really are quite dishonest in your argumentation
I hope this dishonesty begins and ends with these postings
You are really a funny
"that wants the AMA to do everything, be everywhere, and cater to your every need and desire, all the while not raising dues,"
Requiring an organization to fulfill their fiduciary responsibility you equate with catering to my every need and desire.
As far as catering to my needs and desires?
Does the AMA do "catering"?
"all the while not raising dues,"
I never mentioned dues, I never objected to a raise in dues, "we don't need no stinkin dues"(see Treasure of Sierra Madre)
So do you feel that a raise in dues would ameliorate the current situation? Don't throw out distractions, to support your argument you need all the distraction you can create, use your distractions wisely.
Do others take you seriously? Seriously?
"then illogically blame them when everything doesn't go your way. That's not who they are, that's not what they do.
There is that "blame" word again
Did Mommy criticize and frequently blame you for leaving the cap off the toothpaste tube?
Your earlier posts did not contain quotes that I never made, but your more recent ones do.
Your use of the absolute "everything" is very diagnostic of yourself. It is difficult to attain an agreement with people who speak in absolutes
I don't mean the vodka.
You accused me of desperation in my early posts,
You have raised desperation to an art form.
So you want us to support the AMA and countenance what they are doing?
You want us not to criticize the AMAs contradictory policies?
You want us to lower our expectations regarding the AMAs fiduciary responsibility?
You do not want us to support the lawsuit against the FAA?
You do not want us to encourage others to write their congressman?
You want us to accept reality as you see it?
If that is want you want,
answer this
Will that protect our permission to fly?
12-31-2015, 09:51 AM
#110
As Jeff so aptly outlined Porcia's agenda...
"So you want us to support the AMA and countenance what they are doing?
You want us not to criticize the AMAs contradictory policies?
You want us to lower our expectations regarding the AMAs fiduciary responsibility?
You do not want us to support the lawsuit against the FAA?
You do not want us to encourage others to write their congressman?
You want us to accept reality as you see it?"
Yes Jeff, this is all that he expects from the rest of the flock.
Back when Alek Walesa's Solidarity Movement was picking up steam in Poland, camera crews interviewed the "man in the street" back in Moscow to see what they thought of the "malcontents" over in Poland.
I don't know how this camera crew did it, but they were able to find nothing but Porcia and Crispy Clones to tell the cameras that the Poles were nothing but a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled brats who do not realize how much The Kremlin contributes to their well being..!.
"So you want us to support the AMA and countenance what they are doing?
You want us not to criticize the AMAs contradictory policies?
You want us to lower our expectations regarding the AMAs fiduciary responsibility?
You do not want us to support the lawsuit against the FAA?
You do not want us to encourage others to write their congressman?
You want us to accept reality as you see it?"
Yes Jeff, this is all that he expects from the rest of the flock.
Back when Alek Walesa's Solidarity Movement was picking up steam in Poland, camera crews interviewed the "man in the street" back in Moscow to see what they thought of the "malcontents" over in Poland.
I don't know how this camera crew did it, but they were able to find nothing but Porcia and Crispy Clones to tell the cameras that the Poles were nothing but a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled brats who do not realize how much The Kremlin contributes to their well being..!.
12-31-2015, 10:02 AM
#111
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
As Jeff so aptly outlined Porcia's agenda...
"So you want us to support the AMA and countenance what they are doing?
You want us not to criticize the AMAs contradictory policies?
You want us to lower our expectations regarding the AMAs fiduciary responsibility?
You do not want us to support the lawsuit against the FAA?
You do not want us to encourage others to write their congressman?
You want us to accept reality as you see it?"
Yes Jeff, this is all that he expects from the rest of the flock.
Back when Alek Walesa's Solidarity Movement was picking up steam in Poland, camera crews interviewed the "man in the street" back in Moscow to see what they thought of the "malcontents" over in Poland.
I don't know how this camera crew did it, but they were able to find nothing but Porcia and Crispy Clones to tell the cameras that the Poles were nothing but a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled brats who do not realize how much The Kremlin contributes to their well being..!.
"So you want us to support the AMA and countenance what they are doing?
You want us not to criticize the AMAs contradictory policies?
You want us to lower our expectations regarding the AMAs fiduciary responsibility?
You do not want us to support the lawsuit against the FAA?
You do not want us to encourage others to write their congressman?
You want us to accept reality as you see it?"
Yes Jeff, this is all that he expects from the rest of the flock.
Back when Alek Walesa's Solidarity Movement was picking up steam in Poland, camera crews interviewed the "man in the street" back in Moscow to see what they thought of the "malcontents" over in Poland.
I don't know how this camera crew did it, but they were able to find nothing but Porcia and Crispy Clones to tell the cameras that the Poles were nothing but a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled brats who do not realize how much The Kremlin contributes to their well being..!.
12-31-2015, 01:11 PM
#112
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Location: TITUSVILLE FLORIDA NY
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I think that individuals like Porcia have consumed to much of our time Combatpig
I just spoke to a buddy of mine about this and it was like talking to someone coming back from a funeral of a loved one.
Well we ain't dead yet .
So stop acting like you are.
I had a notion that might simplify and focus the type of letter writing campaign that the AMA should be spear heading as is not
I do not think they are effective nor are they in template form
Our member I suspect might more easily participate if they did not have to compose the letter but could merely plug in some
pertinent facts.
these are examples of what your letter should contain according to the AMA to the FAA
But we should be writing to our senators and congressmen yeah Porcia I do expect the AMA to have produced a template form for congressman.
the FAA is clearly the wrong audience to write to.
These letters in themselves are garbage and addressed to the wrong audience.
I would suggest a will create a template letter, made available to AMA members with far stronger tone to it that they can easily, and I do mean easily send to their congressional reps. But I would gladly welcome and would appreciate your input.
Senators and congressman are concerned with mainly 2 things votes and money. In fact, money = votes and votes=money
The letter should remind these elected officials that their continued tenure is tenuous, that we are not only 180,000 people but we are a segment of well informed
technologically savvy individuals with a large circle of friends, families, businesses, business associates, political connections, that contribute generously to political campaigns that we feel represent our interests. Those contributions will be easily withdrawn and find different reps, if they do not support us.
Do not accept a automated response from the representative.
Just to note, We have one flye,r the president of our club who the politicians love and I suspect fear because he talks to everyone. He was instrumental in obtaining the flying site from the municipality.
But combat I would prefer to communicate with you through a more private venue say my email, and avoid any counter productive static.
Here it is [email protected]
I await your response
I just spoke to a buddy of mine about this and it was like talking to someone coming back from a funeral of a loved one.
Well we ain't dead yet .
So stop acting like you are.
I had a notion that might simplify and focus the type of letter writing campaign that the AMA should be spear heading as is not
I do not think they are effective nor are they in template form
Our member I suspect might more easily participate if they did not have to compose the letter but could merely plug in some
pertinent facts.
these are examples of what your letter should contain according to the AMA to the FAA
But we should be writing to our senators and congressmen yeah Porcia I do expect the AMA to have produced a template form for congressman.
the FAA is clearly the wrong audience to write to.
- express your disappointment with the registration rule. As a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), I am disappointed with the new rule for UAS registration. I am a long time model aircraft flyer, who has operated under the guidance of the largest community-based organization (CBO) in the world for many years.
- Highlight AMA's history and safety record. Since 1936, AMA has published safety standards and offered training programs for our members - more than 20 years before the FAA was created. Our National Model Aircraft Safety Code has been recognized by Congress as well as by state legislatures as a safe and effective means of managing model aircraft enthusiasts like me
. - Note that you already register with AMA. Additionally, AMA's safety program already instructs me to place my AMA number or name and address on or within my model aircraft(s), effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule.
- Make it clear this rule is contrary to the intent of Congress. The new rule is contrary to the intent of Congress in Section 336 of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. Section 336, also referred to as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft," clearly prohibits the FAA from promulgating any new rules for recreational users operating within the safety guidelines of a CBO. In addition, the FAA's contention that model aircraft should be considered aircraft is currently the subject of pending litigation.
- Affirm that as an AMA member you should be exempt from federal registration. The registration process is an unnecessary burden for me and the more than 185,000 other AMA members. AMA members should not be required to register with the FAA.
These letters in themselves are garbage and addressed to the wrong audience.
I would suggest a will create a template letter, made available to AMA members with far stronger tone to it that they can easily, and I do mean easily send to their congressional reps. But I would gladly welcome and would appreciate your input.
Senators and congressman are concerned with mainly 2 things votes and money. In fact, money = votes and votes=money
The letter should remind these elected officials that their continued tenure is tenuous, that we are not only 180,000 people but we are a segment of well informed
technologically savvy individuals with a large circle of friends, families, businesses, business associates, political connections, that contribute generously to political campaigns that we feel represent our interests. Those contributions will be easily withdrawn and find different reps, if they do not support us.
Do not accept a automated response from the representative.
Just to note, We have one flye,r the president of our club who the politicians love and I suspect fear because he talks to everyone. He was instrumental in obtaining the flying site from the municipality.
But combat I would prefer to communicate with you through a more private venue say my email, and avoid any counter productive static.
Here it is [email protected]
I await your response
12-31-2015, 01:42 PM
#113
Will do Jeffrey.
Your key points are what we want them to look into and I believe that presenting them with the key points boiled down into "Brochure Format" will be the most effective way to maintain their focus and attention these issues.
A key point that I WISH I could tell my Congressmen [but can't because it isn't true] is that our organization [AMA] that represents the hobby of flying model airplanes made it perfectly clear to both Congress and the FAA many years ago that it would not sponsor, promote or allow any form of model aircraft that have been equipped to be flown beyond the line of sight.
If the AMA had chosen to take this path, it would have made the task of convincing our law makers that any regulations meant to control Drone Operators should not apply to us.
Your key points are what we want them to look into and I believe that presenting them with the key points boiled down into "Brochure Format" will be the most effective way to maintain their focus and attention these issues.
A key point that I WISH I could tell my Congressmen [but can't because it isn't true] is that our organization [AMA] that represents the hobby of flying model airplanes made it perfectly clear to both Congress and the FAA many years ago that it would not sponsor, promote or allow any form of model aircraft that have been equipped to be flown beyond the line of sight.
If the AMA had chosen to take this path, it would have made the task of convincing our law makers that any regulations meant to control Drone Operators should not apply to us.
12-31-2015, 01:46 PM
#114
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I think that individuals like Porcia have consumed to much of our time Combatpig
I just spoke to a buddy of mine about this and it was like talking to someone coming back from a funeral of a loved one.
Well we ain't dead yet .
So stop acting like you are.
I had a notion that might simplify and focus the type of letter writing campaign that the AMA should be spear heading as is not
I do not think they are effective nor are they in template form
Our member I suspect might more easily participate if they did not have to compose the letter but could merely plug in some
pertinent facts.
these are examples of what your letter should contain according to the AMA to the FAA
But we should be writing to our senators and congressmen yeah Porcia I do expect the AMA to have produced a template form for congressman.
the FAA is clearly the wrong audience to write to.
These letters in themselves are garbage and addressed to the wrong audience.
I would suggest a will create a template letter, made available to AMA members with far stronger tone to it that they can easily, and I do mean easily send to their congressional reps. But I would gladly welcome and would appreciate your input.
Senators and congressman are concerned with mainly 2 things votes and money. In fact, money = votes and votes=money
The letter should remind these elected officials that their continued tenure is tenuous, that we are not only 180,000 people but we are a segment of well informed
technologically savvy individuals with a large circle of friends, families, businesses, business associates, political connections, that contribute generously to political campaigns that we feel represent our interests. Those contributions will be easily withdrawn and find different reps, if they do not support us.
Do not accept a automated response from the representative.
Just to note, We have one flye,r the president of our club who the politicians love and I suspect fear because he talks to everyone. He was instrumental in obtaining the flying site from the municipality.
But combat I would prefer to communicate with you through a more private venue say my email, and avoid any counter productive static.
Here it is [email protected]
I await your response
I just spoke to a buddy of mine about this and it was like talking to someone coming back from a funeral of a loved one.
Well we ain't dead yet .
So stop acting like you are.
I had a notion that might simplify and focus the type of letter writing campaign that the AMA should be spear heading as is not
I do not think they are effective nor are they in template form
Our member I suspect might more easily participate if they did not have to compose the letter but could merely plug in some
pertinent facts.
these are examples of what your letter should contain according to the AMA to the FAA
But we should be writing to our senators and congressmen yeah Porcia I do expect the AMA to have produced a template form for congressman.
the FAA is clearly the wrong audience to write to.
- express your disappointment with the registration rule. As a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), I am disappointed with the new rule for UAS registration. I am a long time model aircraft flyer, who has operated under the guidance of the largest community-based organization (CBO) in the world for many years.
- Highlight AMA's history and safety record. Since 1936, AMA has published safety standards and offered training programs for our members - more than 20 years before the FAA was created. Our National Model Aircraft Safety Code has been recognized by Congress as well as by state legislatures as a safe and effective means of managing model aircraft enthusiasts like me
. - Note that you already register with AMA. Additionally, AMA's safety program already instructs me to place my AMA number or name and address on or within my model aircraft(s), effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule.
- Make it clear this rule is contrary to the intent of Congress. The new rule is contrary to the intent of Congress in Section 336 of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. Section 336, also referred to as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft," clearly prohibits the FAA from promulgating any new rules for recreational users operating within the safety guidelines of a CBO. In addition, the FAA's contention that model aircraft should be considered aircraft is currently the subject of pending litigation.
- Affirm that as an AMA member you should be exempt from federal registration. The registration process is an unnecessary burden for me and the more than 185,000 other AMA members. AMA members should not be required to register with the FAA.
These letters in themselves are garbage and addressed to the wrong audience.
I would suggest a will create a template letter, made available to AMA members with far stronger tone to it that they can easily, and I do mean easily send to their congressional reps. But I would gladly welcome and would appreciate your input.
Senators and congressman are concerned with mainly 2 things votes and money. In fact, money = votes and votes=money
The letter should remind these elected officials that their continued tenure is tenuous, that we are not only 180,000 people but we are a segment of well informed
technologically savvy individuals with a large circle of friends, families, businesses, business associates, political connections, that contribute generously to political campaigns that we feel represent our interests. Those contributions will be easily withdrawn and find different reps, if they do not support us.
Do not accept a automated response from the representative.
Just to note, We have one flye,r the president of our club who the politicians love and I suspect fear because he talks to everyone. He was instrumental in obtaining the flying site from the municipality.
But combat I would prefer to communicate with you through a more private venue say my email, and avoid any counter productive static.
Here it is [email protected]
I await your response
12-31-2015, 03:35 PM
#115
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Understood Combatpig
Hey , they've been speaking guile for awhile.
Regarding drones at the AMA. Go Fly a drone designed to break our safety code.
Convince lawmakers? Are you kidding we can't even convince guys in our clubs to help themselves.
There is one positive that might come out of this : we could pick up some sweet deals on airplanes and helicopters, real cheap.
I tried to find an on-line plug-n-play (oooh, that word) template for a request for assistance letter to a congressman.
Can't find it. Most are advice and guidance in writing a letter to a congressman real respectful and such, not my style at all.
I would want something that might grab their attention:
"You better support us or I am making a heavy contribution to your opponent" and so will " AWW MAW KEEEIDS."
Yeah sompin like dat.
email me
Hey , they've been speaking guile for awhile.
Regarding drones at the AMA. Go Fly a drone designed to break our safety code.
Convince lawmakers? Are you kidding we can't even convince guys in our clubs to help themselves.
There is one positive that might come out of this : we could pick up some sweet deals on airplanes and helicopters, real cheap.
I tried to find an on-line plug-n-play (oooh, that word) template for a request for assistance letter to a congressman.
Can't find it. Most are advice and guidance in writing a letter to a congressman real respectful and such, not my style at all.
I would want something that might grab their attention:
"You better support us or I am making a heavy contribution to your opponent" and so will " AWW MAW KEEEIDS."
Yeah sompin like dat.
email me
01-01-2016, 01:03 PM
#117
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I agree with you and if I may add
Drone use, that remains at an AMA site and conforms to AMA safety codes, of course is not a problem,
Never has been never will be a problem.
However, the majority of drone purchasers and users, I have met, have no intention of using them according to the AMA safety code.
Unfortunately ,some AMA members at times, fall into this category as well. Why would they fly at an AMA field, it's dam boring photographing and "flying" (you aren't flying it, it is flying you)
with stabilization over the same terrain. Yeah racing is cool, but that remains over a closed circuit course and is certainly not beyond the field or
line of sight. But my God could you imagine the media fall- out if a drone swarm race occurred with 10 or 20 drones ripping over a municipality streets without permission like some demonic "Circuit de Monaco". We would all have to leave the country with our planes. Our families wouldn't speak to us, we would be outcasts, it would be like Robert Duvalls' prediction in "the Godfather" cautioning Sonny about gunning down a police captain.
"Now nobody has ever had a swarm drone race in New York -- never. It would be disastrous. All the Five Families would come after you, Sonny. The AMA Family would be outcasts! Even the old man's political protection would run for cover! So do me a favor -- take this into consideration."
So how can President Bob Brown encourage more manufacturers and retailer to provide free or subsidized AMA memberships to
"qualified" buyers of drones.
Wouldn't the qualifications include a commitment albeit unverifiable by the AMA to join the AMA and follow the AMA safety code. The worse case would be if they joined the AMA at time of purchase and then did not fly according to the AMA safety code.
It's almost like aiding and abetting a crime. The purchaser does not know or care what the AMA is or what the Safety Code requires.
You think the sales person. usually a kid is going to push the point and lose the sale?
Not only has the EC not figured out their error, in promoting drone use they continue to exacerbate, read January MA presidents editorial,
assuring the rest of us that all will come out well through better education.
.
The EC and the presidents' decision to align us with drones is not just a poor decision it goes far beyond the pale of being poor or bad decision no one can be that out of touch, it was motivated as you say by greed, greed for membership dollars and any other benefits yet undiscovered.
As far as EC replacement for good or bad at this critical point the AMA EC is our advocate in Washington God help us, so we need to wait until the current crisis passes. You know maybe your are correct about immediate replacement, got to think on that some more, good point.
But, could you imagine the wiggling our pro-fessional negotiators would have to do if asked by the FAA
Remember even though the hearing could look like a court of law it isn't and the panel can ask pretty much any questions they want.
Sir, You of the AMA have stated quite proudly to the panel, that your AMA has an unblemished record of promoting the following:
AMA requirements demand that all pilots follow the AMA safety code.
AMA clubs utilize training programs for new pilots to help ensure safety
AMA members are provided with substantial insurance coverage.
and that pilots engaging in the flying of model airplanes and helicopters by their very nature, demand all the above, but not drones generally do not
You also stated that the majority of drone incidents have do not involved AMA members or they did not involve individual following the AMA safety
code, we concede that point to you.
But I am compelled to ask you:
Why is your organization risking its' unblemished record in actively promoting drones purchase and use en masse at retailers , I mean after all,
Does not your promotion, risk nullifying the requirements and procedures process that occurs at your fields
Does not your organization potentially run the risk of blemishing its' record ?
Our professional rep would do a "Ralph Kramden" homina, homina, homina, homina, that would make Jackie Gleason proud.
Or, do some believe they would attain credibility by saying "We at the AMA believe through education anything is possible.
Yeah, I guess some gansta, in the Bronx using a quad copter to deliver crack believes that too.
Drone use, that remains at an AMA site and conforms to AMA safety codes, of course is not a problem,
Never has been never will be a problem.
However, the majority of drone purchasers and users, I have met, have no intention of using them according to the AMA safety code.
Unfortunately ,some AMA members at times, fall into this category as well. Why would they fly at an AMA field, it's dam boring photographing and "flying" (you aren't flying it, it is flying you)
with stabilization over the same terrain. Yeah racing is cool, but that remains over a closed circuit course and is certainly not beyond the field or
line of sight. But my God could you imagine the media fall- out if a drone swarm race occurred with 10 or 20 drones ripping over a municipality streets without permission like some demonic "Circuit de Monaco". We would all have to leave the country with our planes. Our families wouldn't speak to us, we would be outcasts, it would be like Robert Duvalls' prediction in "the Godfather" cautioning Sonny about gunning down a police captain.
"Now nobody has ever had a swarm drone race in New York -- never. It would be disastrous. All the Five Families would come after you, Sonny. The AMA Family would be outcasts! Even the old man's political protection would run for cover! So do me a favor -- take this into consideration."
So how can President Bob Brown encourage more manufacturers and retailer to provide free or subsidized AMA memberships to
"qualified" buyers of drones.
Wouldn't the qualifications include a commitment albeit unverifiable by the AMA to join the AMA and follow the AMA safety code. The worse case would be if they joined the AMA at time of purchase and then did not fly according to the AMA safety code.
It's almost like aiding and abetting a crime. The purchaser does not know or care what the AMA is or what the Safety Code requires.
You think the sales person. usually a kid is going to push the point and lose the sale?
Not only has the EC not figured out their error, in promoting drone use they continue to exacerbate, read January MA presidents editorial,
assuring the rest of us that all will come out well through better education.
.
The EC and the presidents' decision to align us with drones is not just a poor decision it goes far beyond the pale of being poor or bad decision no one can be that out of touch, it was motivated as you say by greed, greed for membership dollars and any other benefits yet undiscovered.
As far as EC replacement for good or bad at this critical point the AMA EC is our advocate in Washington God help us, so we need to wait until the current crisis passes. You know maybe your are correct about immediate replacement, got to think on that some more, good point.
But, could you imagine the wiggling our pro-fessional negotiators would have to do if asked by the FAA
Remember even though the hearing could look like a court of law it isn't and the panel can ask pretty much any questions they want.
Sir, You of the AMA have stated quite proudly to the panel, that your AMA has an unblemished record of promoting the following:
AMA requirements demand that all pilots follow the AMA safety code.
AMA clubs utilize training programs for new pilots to help ensure safety
AMA members are provided with substantial insurance coverage.
and that pilots engaging in the flying of model airplanes and helicopters by their very nature, demand all the above, but not drones generally do not
You also stated that the majority of drone incidents have do not involved AMA members or they did not involve individual following the AMA safety
code, we concede that point to you.
But I am compelled to ask you:
Why is your organization risking its' unblemished record in actively promoting drones purchase and use en masse at retailers , I mean after all,
Does not your promotion, risk nullifying the requirements and procedures process that occurs at your fields
Does not your organization potentially run the risk of blemishing its' record ?
Our professional rep would do a "Ralph Kramden" homina, homina, homina, homina, that would make Jackie Gleason proud.
Or, do some believe they would attain credibility by saying "We at the AMA believe through education anything is possible.
Yeah, I guess some gansta, in the Bronx using a quad copter to deliver crack believes that too.
01-01-2016, 02:11 PM
#118
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I agree with you and if I may add
Drone use, that remains at an AMA site and conforms to AMA safety codes, of course is not a problem,
Never has been never will be a problem.
However, the majority of drone purchasers and users, I have met, have no intention of using them according to the AMA safety code. How many is that exactly, single or double digits?
Unfortunately ,some AMA members at times, fall into this category as well. Why would they fly at an AMA field, it's dam boring photographing and "flying" (you aren't flying it, it is flying you)
with stabilization over the same terrain. Yeah racing is cool, but that remains over a closed circuit course and is certainly not beyond the field or
line of sight. But my God could you imagine the media fall- out if a drone swarm race occurred with 10 or 20 drones ripping over a municipality streets without permission like some demonic "Circuit de Monaco". We would all have to leave the country with our planes. Our families wouldn't speak to us, we would be outcasts, it would be like Robert Duvalls' prediction in "the Godfather" cautioning Sonny about gunning down a police captain.
"Now nobody has ever had a swarm drone race in New York -- never. It would be disastrous. All the Five Families would come after you, Sonny. The AMA Family would be outcasts! Even the old man's political protection would run for cover! So do me a favor -- take this into consideration."
So how can President Bob Brown encourage more manufacturers and retailer to provide free or subsidized AMA memberships to
"qualified" buyers of drones.
Wouldn't the qualifications include a commitment albeit unverifiable by the AMA to join the AMA and follow the AMA safety code. The worse case would be if they joined the AMA at time of purchase and then did not fly according to the AMA safety code.
It's almost like aiding and abetting a crime. The purchaser does not know or care what the AMA is or what the Safety Code requires. Yes, spot on....aiding and abetting a crime. Yikes!
You think the sales person. usually a kid is going to push the point and lose the sale? Where do you come up with this stuff...what a leap.
Not only has the EC not figured out their error, in promoting drone use they continue to exacerbate, read January MA presidents editorial,
assuring the rest of us that all will come out well through better education. So is your solution less education...is less more for you?
.
The EC and the presidents' decision to align us with drones is not just a poor decision it goes far beyond the pale of being poor or bad decision no one can be that out of touch, it was motivated as you say by greed, greed for membership dollars and any other benefits yet undiscovered. We're aligned with who wha?
As far as EC replacement for good or bad at this critical point the AMA EC is our advocate in Washington God help us, so we need to wait until the current crisis passes. You know maybe your are correct about immediate replacement, got to think on that some more, good point. I have a ton of these really.
But, could you imagine the wiggling our pro-fessional negotiators would have to do if asked by the FAA....
Remember even though the hearing could look like a court of law it isn't and the panel can ask pretty much any questions they want. You really have no idea what you are talking about here, not a single idea.
Sir, You of the AMA have stated quite proudly to the panel, that your AMA has an unblemished record of promoting the following:
AMA requirements demand that all pilots follow the AMA safety code.
AMA clubs utilize training programs for new pilots to help ensure safety
AMA members are provided with substantial insurance coverage.
and that pilots engaging in the flying of model airplanes and helicopters by their very nature, demand all the above, but not drones generally do not
You also stated that the majority of drone incidents have do not involved AMA members or they did not involve individual following the AMA safety
code, we concede that point to you.
But I am compelled to ask you:
Why is your organization risking its' unblemished record in actively promoting drones purchase and use en masse at retailers , I mean after all,
Does not your promotion, risk nullifying the requirements and procedures process that occurs at your fields
Does not your organization potentially run the risk of blemishing its' record ?
I would say it's best to stop bingewatching Law and Order at this point.
Our professional rep would do a "Ralph Kramden" homina, homina, homina, homina, that would make Jackie Gleason proud.
Or, do some believe they would attain credibility by saying "We at the AMA believe through education anything is possible.
Yeah, I guess some gansta, in the Bronx using a quad copter to deliver crack believes that too. ya...great example, that happens every day right?
Drone use, that remains at an AMA site and conforms to AMA safety codes, of course is not a problem,
Never has been never will be a problem.
However, the majority of drone purchasers and users, I have met, have no intention of using them according to the AMA safety code. How many is that exactly, single or double digits?
Unfortunately ,some AMA members at times, fall into this category as well. Why would they fly at an AMA field, it's dam boring photographing and "flying" (you aren't flying it, it is flying you)
with stabilization over the same terrain. Yeah racing is cool, but that remains over a closed circuit course and is certainly not beyond the field or
line of sight. But my God could you imagine the media fall- out if a drone swarm race occurred with 10 or 20 drones ripping over a municipality streets without permission like some demonic "Circuit de Monaco". We would all have to leave the country with our planes. Our families wouldn't speak to us, we would be outcasts, it would be like Robert Duvalls' prediction in "the Godfather" cautioning Sonny about gunning down a police captain.
"Now nobody has ever had a swarm drone race in New York -- never. It would be disastrous. All the Five Families would come after you, Sonny. The AMA Family would be outcasts! Even the old man's political protection would run for cover! So do me a favor -- take this into consideration."
So how can President Bob Brown encourage more manufacturers and retailer to provide free or subsidized AMA memberships to
"qualified" buyers of drones.
Wouldn't the qualifications include a commitment albeit unverifiable by the AMA to join the AMA and follow the AMA safety code. The worse case would be if they joined the AMA at time of purchase and then did not fly according to the AMA safety code.
It's almost like aiding and abetting a crime. The purchaser does not know or care what the AMA is or what the Safety Code requires. Yes, spot on....aiding and abetting a crime. Yikes!
You think the sales person. usually a kid is going to push the point and lose the sale? Where do you come up with this stuff...what a leap.
Not only has the EC not figured out their error, in promoting drone use they continue to exacerbate, read January MA presidents editorial,
assuring the rest of us that all will come out well through better education. So is your solution less education...is less more for you?
.
The EC and the presidents' decision to align us with drones is not just a poor decision it goes far beyond the pale of being poor or bad decision no one can be that out of touch, it was motivated as you say by greed, greed for membership dollars and any other benefits yet undiscovered. We're aligned with who wha?
As far as EC replacement for good or bad at this critical point the AMA EC is our advocate in Washington God help us, so we need to wait until the current crisis passes. You know maybe your are correct about immediate replacement, got to think on that some more, good point. I have a ton of these really.
But, could you imagine the wiggling our pro-fessional negotiators would have to do if asked by the FAA....
Remember even though the hearing could look like a court of law it isn't and the panel can ask pretty much any questions they want. You really have no idea what you are talking about here, not a single idea.
Sir, You of the AMA have stated quite proudly to the panel, that your AMA has an unblemished record of promoting the following:
AMA requirements demand that all pilots follow the AMA safety code.
AMA clubs utilize training programs for new pilots to help ensure safety
AMA members are provided with substantial insurance coverage.
and that pilots engaging in the flying of model airplanes and helicopters by their very nature, demand all the above, but not drones generally do not
You also stated that the majority of drone incidents have do not involved AMA members or they did not involve individual following the AMA safety
code, we concede that point to you.
But I am compelled to ask you:
Why is your organization risking its' unblemished record in actively promoting drones purchase and use en masse at retailers , I mean after all,
Does not your promotion, risk nullifying the requirements and procedures process that occurs at your fields
Does not your organization potentially run the risk of blemishing its' record ?
I would say it's best to stop bingewatching Law and Order at this point.
Our professional rep would do a "Ralph Kramden" homina, homina, homina, homina, that would make Jackie Gleason proud.
Or, do some believe they would attain credibility by saying "We at the AMA believe through education anything is possible.
Yeah, I guess some gansta, in the Bronx using a quad copter to deliver crack believes that too. ya...great example, that happens every day right?
01-01-2016, 03:23 PM
#119
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: TITUSVILLE FLORIDA NY
Posts: 207
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My response bluepoint by bluepoint (that's a crab isn't it, seem apropos)
How many exactly? well isn't even one AMA member flying a drone improperly one too many, and kinda of embarrassing,
but about 8 AMA improper flyers, What would be an acceptable validating number for you Porcia83? We'll play the Goldilocks game, too many, too
few ,just right.
I used "like" aiding and abetting a crime, I was not serious but the perception by some does make a connection between all RC and unreg drones
Sales people won't extend themselves to explain anything regarding the AMA to a customer and a brochure is ineffective.
Regarding education
What?, is education like Robitussin?, it cures any problem?
My drones are ailing me, put a little "tussin" on it. My drones crashed into a kid, put a little "tussin" on it. The FAA closed down my field, put a little
"tussin on it.
Education is not going to stop people who refuse to be educated ,it does not stop the AMA fliers who are educated about the risks
However, cessation, of
the promotion of
drone use in our magazine and AMA programs will hopefully disconnect the remainder of AMA flyer from the use of unregulated flying.
Do you think we should promote more drone flying ? more "know before you fly" how about "NO, before you fly"?
Are you incapable of understanding that presidents Bob Brown and the AMA promotion of drones in MA connects us to an aspect of RC flying that
we really can't control?
You like education?, you think education is the "magic bullet" like Dr. Paul Erhlich did in the treatment of syphilis. and I think some poster might be in the tertiary stages of.
So, Why not use some real professional education firms like Pearson, Inkling and Kaplan to educate the public?
What the hell does educate the public really mean in practical terms? Let's see the blueprint or template ,if you prefer, you know the difference?
People throw this education term around like a dam frisbee.
Education does not occur on the fly (pardon the pun)
Well, We have a room ,in the back of Best Buys, set aside for education of drone buyers. if you'd like it only takes 20 minutes to be fully educated
No,wait I know we will give them brochures, that will educate them,
No we will show them a video
No we will put them on a mailing list, a we'll talk them yeah that's what will do we'll talk to them at the register.
No we will give them the website that they can go to and participate in a self guided educational tour of the "wonderful world of drones" in living color
Well ,try educating Daddy,Mommy and their whinny kid when they are trying to get out of Best Buys and fly their drone
in the Malls parking lot.
Not that the ideas are bad, do them, by all means but stop the promotion of drones in our mag and giving free AMA membership crap
We should stay away from the drone issue. Neither condemn, nor promote their purchase or use. I realize that is hard to do but the continued
promotion of it makes it
harder to be viewed by the FAA as anything other than intimately involved and responsible for ALL drone use. Since we have taken on the burden of drone use it is viewed by the FAA that we are answerable for all drone use obviously the FAA does not discriminate. We volunteered and we are
not doing a good job at controlling drone use so logically the FAA must step in.
We promote safe flying that's all.
I believe committee people are not prevented from asking questions of witnesses, I am not saying they did but they might.
I don't watch law and order, just Oprah
The sheriff of my county wanted to outlaw drones for fear that they might be used to drop drugs and weapons to prisoners under his charge
That is the perception of a municipal employee in a position of making county policy and enforcing it.
How many exactly? well isn't even one AMA member flying a drone improperly one too many, and kinda of embarrassing,
but about 8 AMA improper flyers, What would be an acceptable validating number for you Porcia83? We'll play the Goldilocks game, too many, too
few ,just right.
I used "like" aiding and abetting a crime, I was not serious but the perception by some does make a connection between all RC and unreg drones
Sales people won't extend themselves to explain anything regarding the AMA to a customer and a brochure is ineffective.
Regarding education
What?, is education like Robitussin?, it cures any problem?
My drones are ailing me, put a little "tussin" on it. My drones crashed into a kid, put a little "tussin" on it. The FAA closed down my field, put a little
"tussin on it.
Education is not going to stop people who refuse to be educated ,it does not stop the AMA fliers who are educated about the risks
However, cessation, of
the promotion of
drone use in our magazine and AMA programs will hopefully disconnect the remainder of AMA flyer from the use of unregulated flying.
Do you think we should promote more drone flying ? more "know before you fly" how about "NO, before you fly"?
Are you incapable of understanding that presidents Bob Brown and the AMA promotion of drones in MA connects us to an aspect of RC flying that
we really can't control?
You like education?, you think education is the "magic bullet" like Dr. Paul Erhlich did in the treatment of syphilis. and I think some poster might be in the tertiary stages of.
So, Why not use some real professional education firms like Pearson, Inkling and Kaplan to educate the public?
What the hell does educate the public really mean in practical terms? Let's see the blueprint or template ,if you prefer, you know the difference?
People throw this education term around like a dam frisbee.
Education does not occur on the fly (pardon the pun)
Well, We have a room ,in the back of Best Buys, set aside for education of drone buyers. if you'd like it only takes 20 minutes to be fully educated
No,wait I know we will give them brochures, that will educate them,
No we will show them a video
No we will put them on a mailing list, a we'll talk them yeah that's what will do we'll talk to them at the register.
No we will give them the website that they can go to and participate in a self guided educational tour of the "wonderful world of drones" in living color
Well ,try educating Daddy,Mommy and their whinny kid when they are trying to get out of Best Buys and fly their drone
in the Malls parking lot.
Not that the ideas are bad, do them, by all means but stop the promotion of drones in our mag and giving free AMA membership crap
We should stay away from the drone issue. Neither condemn, nor promote their purchase or use. I realize that is hard to do but the continued
promotion of it makes it
harder to be viewed by the FAA as anything other than intimately involved and responsible for ALL drone use. Since we have taken on the burden of drone use it is viewed by the FAA that we are answerable for all drone use obviously the FAA does not discriminate. We volunteered and we are
not doing a good job at controlling drone use so logically the FAA must step in.
We promote safe flying that's all.
I believe committee people are not prevented from asking questions of witnesses, I am not saying they did but they might.
I don't watch law and order, just Oprah
The sheriff of my county wanted to outlaw drones for fear that they might be used to drop drugs and weapons to prisoners under his charge
That is the perception of a municipal employee in a position of making county policy and enforcing it.
01-01-2016, 04:07 PM
#120
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
No bluepoint response...just blackpoint? Get with CP, see if he can help with the responses, they are to disjointed and scattered to make much sense. I know that's picky, but it's just not worth the time to try to read all that. You might have some good points that we can discuss...but man, brevity can really help.
Last edited by porcia83; 01-01-2016 at 04:10 PM.
01-01-2016, 04:12 PM
#121
My Feedback: (42)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Liberty, SC
Posts: 49
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You are dead on Jeffrey and as far as porcia, well that is another story that we need to stop dealing with. All the education in the world will do you no good if you don't have any common sense and it is pretty evident that he has none what so ever. I agree with everything you put in your last post, I applaude you.
01-01-2016, 04:18 PM
#122
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
You are dead on Jeffrey and as far as porcia, well that is another story that we need to stop dealing with. All the education in the world will do you no good if you don't have any common sense and it is pretty evident that he has none what so ever. I agree with everything you put in your last post, I applaude you.
01-01-2016, 04:56 PM
#123
My Feedback: (42)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Liberty, SC
Posts: 49
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I don't see anybody acting like a child, its just every time someone puts good suggestions on this forum, you want to disagree.You have not been any help to try and solve the problem, all you want to do is pat the AMA on the back hoping that will fix everything. Well the AMA let this get out of hand and the way I see it they are not helping to fix anything that they have had a big hand in creating,catering to the drone population. Every other ad in the magizine is about Drones, all they care about is the money involved. I think all the people on here want to see this problem solved,and from what I am seeing everyone on here is in agreement on how we should do it and that is why so many posts are repeated.My do you think so many are complaining about you, you can't see the forest for the trees!
01-01-2016, 05:07 PM
#124
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I don't see anybody acting like a child, its just every time someone puts good suggestions on this forum, you want to disagree.You have not been any help to try and solve the problem, all you want to do is pat the AMA on the back hoping that will fix everything. Well the AMA let this get out of hand and the way I see it they are not helping to fix anything that they have had a big hand in creating,catering to the drone population. Every other ad in the magizine is about Drones, all they care about is the money involved. I think all the people on here want to see this problem solved,and from what I am seeing everyone on here is in agreement on how we should do it and that is why so many posts are repeated.My do you think so many are complaining about you, you can't see the forest for the trees!
01-01-2016, 05:44 PM
#125
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: TITUSVILLE FLORIDA NY
Posts: 207
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0 Posts
You don't poke holes in others arguments You say you can but you haven't
and you hide behind a waste of time , come on,
obviously you are OK with wasting your time and the
time of others
OK give it a shot
State your case concisely what should be done or not done and why.
Can you do that Porcia83
We are listening and receptive.
Go for it
and you hide behind a waste of time , come on,
obviously you are OK with wasting your time and the
time of others
OK give it a shot
State your case concisely what should be done or not done and why.
Can you do that Porcia83
We are listening and receptive.
Go for it