....GASP.......the constituents are unhappy? How DARE they? Why don't they just get up and do something themselves? Could they do a better job? Bunch of AMA haters I bet!!!!

Regards,

Astro

Did you get your vote in yet? Who do you think is going to win?

LoL...you try so hard. Sheeple...morons....haters.....see a trend there (name calling, generalizations)? You use that term "hater" a lot. Why is that? (Rhetorical question)

Not sure what you're point is though, other than the obvious misplaced sarcasm (logical fallacy?). Yes, members in his district have been critical of him, no doubt you've seen the comments just as I have. You do bring up a good point though, they can get up and do something. Perhaps some might even do a better job, who knows. Doesn't look like anyone in his district is running against him for the presidency. Not sure about the AMA hater thing though...again, that's not something I've said, not that I recall at least.

But hey, here's another question. Say he was to get the position, suddenly he's the President. Who fills his spot as VP in this district? More to the point, does he have someone he wants to fill that role? Has he been bringing someone along, under his wing so to speak? It's a big district, lot's of AVP under him. I would hope he's been working with someone. He is required to have a contingency plan and actually list someone which if I dig through the EC meeting I could find (those notes are a pretty good read), but beyond just naming someone, has he done something more than that? I would hope so. I would see that as part of his duties as a DVP, imo.

Easy to make claims, isn't it? Care to explain what or why you think I don't understand? LOL

Don't get what your point is here........why would I comment?

You can split hairs if you like, but you CLEARLY stated this (posted for a second time because you conveniently left it out of my post that you quoted!) Maybe you should have just said, "ONE turbine flyer who has more invested in this hobby". Wouldn't that convey your message clearer?

Regards,

Astro

Sarcasm? YES. Misplaced? Absolutely not! LOL Just as those here have voiced their displeasure with the AMA and been belittled, berated and been accused of being tin-foil-hat-wearers, conspiracy theorists, doom and gloomers, etc, etc.

In denial much?

Astro

Nope, not at all. Aside from your characterizations/interpretations of how you feel some folks have been treated...(and your vigilant and vigorous defense)...which I would disagree with (ones mans belittle is another man's challenge to show proof), the actual proof is in the pudding. I can go back as far as 14 years here and elsewhere and pull out literally hundreds of these theories and doom and gloom prognostications, 99.99% of never come true. And 14 years from now it will still be going on. The new trend of course is to pop up a poll, or pose a question as a thread starter...ie: what's really going on, why is this happening...all casting suspicion on something. The why are numbers on my ballot thread comes to mind, among many others. You've been involved in these threads as long as I have been, actually a heck of a lot longer. I know we see some things differently, but there is no way you don't see what I'm saying here, right? I promise agreeing with me won't sting a bit!

Contrary to what you may believe, I do not just disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing with you. We have agreed to agree on at least a couple things in the past (believe it or not, folks! ).

However, this is not one of them. What I have seen here from the folks voicing their concerns and displeasure with the AMA, is no different than people who have voiced their displeasure with their elected officer. It is their right to do so, and should not be ostracized or labeled for doing so. Furthermore, I believe it is the responsibility of any elected official (or the EC) to actually ANSWER the questions posed to them by their constituents (no matter how difficult or damning they may (or may not) be).

Frank Tiano did.

Regards,

Astro

Are you sure about that? You've said you're only here to follow my posts and respond to them, to "unspin" them. You seem to be doing just that, to the point of post stalking and responding just for the sake of responding...including name calling, and lot's of caps and exclamation points to emphasize your outrage. Have you figured out yet that it's a waste of time? I don't think I've had a post that you haven't responded to, we seem to be carrying the AMA threads lately, lol. Not a problem, that's your choice, but keep in mind some folks might criticize for trying to inflate your post count.

Again with the characterizations like "ostracized". Please show me where that's done. Well, I take that back actually. I've certainly faced some of that from you, Mike, Franklin, Init, Combat, oh the list goes on, for daring to push back on the chronic AMA bad theme that's so prevalent (here). Any question from me because flag waiving fan boy rose colored lense tunnel vision etc etc. Why is that? The few others that might go that route are immediately pounced on too. And the criticism comes from the same people going on and on about others being "sheeple". It's ironic. I'm not complaining here, just pointing out a dynamic that's obvious to anyone in these threads, or should be, and one that has been here since the start of AMA threads. Go back to the last page of threads and read forward. To coin a phrase I've heard...samo samo. I suspect it will be that way for a long time to come. Can't please everyone, and there will always be critics.

Agree that folks have complained about the AMA and their elected officials, agree its their right to do so, and agree that Tiano answered the questions. Mostly. For me many of his answers were non answers, spin (yes, that word), and the typical answers a politician would give. I found his understanding of some major issues lacking for a guy who wants to run the organization. Some of the answers were pretty telling when it comes to character and temperament. That's my opinion. But I've said it before and mean it, good on him for taking the time to respond.

Init has pondered several times now why the others haven't come here. I suspect you'll come back here with "you will attack them", but you'll note there were several people asking him questions, not just me. I'll again note the overall tone and tenor of the AMA threads as a potential reason for this. Yes, people have complained about the AMA. I know this will annoy you, but the fact is some have done nothing but complain about them for more than a decade. Not a single positive thing to say, and everything they do...literally everything is second guessed and criticized. One poster in general comes to mind, for 12 years he's said the AMA is nothing but an insurance scam. I mean, c'mon, really?

The politically wise move for all of them (except perhaps Tougas) is to stay away and focus their energies on their FB and website pages, and pressing the flesh in person where possible. They control their narrative better that way.

Now, another interesting thought, and least for me. Say Tiano and Tougas get in on their back to tradition/separation platforms, and quickly find they won't be able to do what they said they would. Keep in mind, neither have given any specifics on those pledges so it's virtually impossible to hold them to any metric, but lets hold that aside. Let's face it, the AMA isn't going to turn on a dime, and certainly not because of one person. There is still an EC to deal with, as well as the ED, and it doesn't look like the makeup of the EC is going to change that drastically. I'd be interested to see what the comments from the supports here would be. Would they give them a pass, and complain about something else (like it's the EC's fault), or would they turn on them? If we use the comments from folks in Tougas's district after his election as a guide, I suspect they would be in for some criticism.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say nothing will really change no matter who is elected. We'll continue to fly, we'll continue to have ongoing dialog and issues with the feds, and the AMA will continue forward as they always have. For me, that's a good thing. Agree?

Name calling, CAPS and exclamation points.....OH MY!!!! Outrage?... LOL

Is that what you are calling it now? "pushing back"? What happened to embracing others' opinions? You can, "push back" all you want, it doesn't change others' opinions and only makes for needless back and forth banter, some may even say its just to inflate your post count. LOL

Yes. They are called opinions. That is what you clearly do not understand or have any tolerance for. How is it that those with opinions that differ from yours are a "dynamic" and the samo samo? The EXACT same could be said of your posts, they are the samo samo, but somehow you justify putting a negative spin on those with opposing views as a "dynamic"? LOL

LOL I'm having visions of kettles and the color black......,

.
Wait for it........wait for it......wait for it.............(see Porcia quote below LOL)

OHHHHH....so they don't HAVE to show THEIR lack of understanding of some of the major issues for guys who want to run the organization.....very telling indeed!

So, it is your view that it is the, "politically wise" move for them. Never mind the facts. Never mind that the voters may want to know what or how they plan to change (or not). Never mind how they handle themselves when asked the tough questions. Seems to me the, "politically wise" move is only good for them, NOT the voters and in turn, NOT good for the AMA (remember the AMA? the organization that was created BY modelers, FOR modelers?)

This is the Porcia equivalent of what you so affectionately call "doom and gloom" What logical fallacy is this? Where you concoct a fictional scenario, prognosticate a fictional outcome, and use it at some sort of argument to not vote for two of the candidates because, "WHAT IF?" LOL

Astro