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Old 09-24-2023, 06:30 AM
  #26  
Propworn
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
Franklin's (private) Permanent Select Subcommittee on the Investigation of the Academy of Model Aeronautics, "AMA", kicked off in July 2013 and has been working diligently ever since keeping RC skies safe for all Americans.

Under that authority Franklin demands the AMA promptly respond to all demands for any and all such records as might be of interest to Franklin and in such format as he demands that no stone go unturned in routing out AMA negligence.
That long eh? Sounds like he may have been the original Karen/Kevin LOL!!!!! Hey maybe he just needs a big ol hug. Anyone???? Come on guys anyone?????
Old 09-24-2023, 06:40 AM
  #27  
speedracerntrixie
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It sure seems as if he is determined to tear the AMA down regardless of how many people it may adversely affect.
Old 09-24-2023, 06:48 AM
  #28  
ECHO24
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
4 clubs, Portland Skyknights, Clark County R/C, Molalla R/C Assiciation and a Portland Area Soaring Society. Many members of those clubs hold memberships in other clubs as well, very common in this area. Donít recall seeing the same degree of club interaction in California though.
Makes it hard to do the numbers. My former club is down 60%. I thought I'd pick 3 pages at random from Club Finder (30 per page) for a guestimate of average club size. Not only do some people belong to more than one club, which is unknowable, some clubs list more than one location, up to 3 or 4 listing the same total members. So you'd have to first eliminate the duplicates. There is also a wide swing from over 120 members down to 6. It would take more than 3 pages. It's not a must have just curios. The FAA in the NPRM estimated average club size is 82 (AMA link is now dead). At a glance it looks more like 50.
Old 09-24-2023, 06:57 AM
  #29  
speedracerntrixie
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Just from the feel of things in my clubs, the 80 average may be pretty accurate. Of my 4 the membership numbers are 140, 130, 50 ( capped ) and 40. That makes for an average of 90 at least in my region.
Old 09-24-2023, 08:01 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
It sure seems as if he is determined to tear the AMA down regardless of how many people it may adversely affect.
As usual, there will be multiple perspectives on this. My perspective is that the AMA is determined to tear themselves down, based on the factual data that Franklin has presented. I don't think that by presenting data Franklin bears any blame in whatever inadequacies the AMA may have. While you may not like the data presented, it is the AMA that is responsible for the abysmal numbers, not Franklin. Ever hear the saying, "Don't shoot the messenger."?

Astro
Old 09-24-2023, 08:08 AM
  #31  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by astrohog
As usual, there will be multiple perspectives on this. My perspective is that the AMA is determined to tear themselves down, based on the factual data that Franklin has presented. I don't think that by presenting data Franklin bears any blame in whatever inadequacies the AMA may have. While you may not like the data presented, it is the AMA that is responsible for the abysmal numbers, not Franklin. Ever hear the saying, "Don't shoot the messenger."?

Astro
As I have stated over and over again ( though you seem to ignore it ) I have zero issues with presenting the data. Itís the embellishment that follows, itís the refusal to accept the experience of long time AMA members, itís the refusal to accept the history of the hobby, itís the making up of alternate screen names with the intent to deceive and lie that I have issues with. His ďfactsĒ always come with a dose of misinformation.
Old 09-24-2023, 09:14 AM
  #32  
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Large overlap here with membership in the 2 major Jacksonville clubs. I pay for the 2nd for no other reason than the altitude waiver to fly turbines.
Old 09-24-2023, 09:44 AM
  #33  
ECHO24
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Just from the feel of things in my clubs, the 80 average may be pretty accurate. Of my 4 the membership numbers are 140, 130, 50 ( capped ) and 40. That makes for an average of 90 at least in my region.
99 mile radius from Tigard it's 51.8. Out 200 miles it's 56.7. That not counting Marymore RC Club with 483 members which alone would skew that result by 6 members.

Sorry typo, 57.6. Actually 58.4. I hadn't taken Marymore out of the club mix, 77 instead of 78 and 4,499 members. Out 99 miles it's 30 clubs subtracting the duplicate locations and 1,554 members. (check my math on Club Finder counts)

Last edited by ECHO24; 09-24-2023 at 09:55 AM.
Old 09-24-2023, 10:03 AM
  #34  
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Just on the surface if that's representative that's big drop from 82 in 3 years, no?
Old 09-24-2023, 12:02 PM
  #35  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
it’s the refusal to accept the experience of long time AMA members, it’s the refusal to accept the history of the hobby,
How do any of these things change the facts he presents? We get that you don't care for him, but it doesn't change reality.
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
it’s the making up of alternate screen names with the intent to deceive and lie that I have issues with
You don't seem to have a problem silencing his voice. Maybe his multiple accounts were simply to restore his voice that had been cancelled?
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
His “facts” always come with a dose of misinformation.
As do yours, as do mine, as do most who post here. We all spin to a certain degree. Are you really trying to claim, "The high road" here?

Astro
Old 09-26-2023, 04:48 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Just from the feel of things in my clubs, the 80 average may be pretty accurate. Of my 4 the membership numbers are 140, 130, 50 ( capped ) and 40. That makes for an average of 90 at least in my region. (emphasis added)
While you may "feel" that 80 is pretty accurate, the truth is - it's considerably less.

Of the AMA's 2052 individual charters, the actual average of reported members is 48.4. The median is 32, which is interesting because it's quite a bit different than the mean. A look at the membership distribution explains it, as 54% of AMA's charters have 35 members or less. Going back to our good friend's "feel" number of 80, it turns out that just 15.3% of all AMA clubs report 80 or more members. The regional average of 90 noted above? Well, it turns out that just 13% of all clubs report that many or more - making the region above quite an outlyer in terms of data. My fear is that AMA EC are like our good friend above, making business decisions based on isolated observations and assuming they extend to the greater data set.

Other facts from the actual data:
- Despite being told it takes 5 to form a charter, the AMA has 12 that report 4 or less members (charter numbers: 7, 71, 5482, 5520, 5550, 5563, 15106, 15176, 15187, 15191, 15217, & 15220)
- One charter reports a single member (15220)
- More than 30% of all clubs report 20 members or less
- Most commonly cited number of members is 19

Last edited by franklin_m; 09-26-2023 at 02:39 PM.
Old 09-26-2023, 04:54 AM
  #37  
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LOL, I guess you missed where I said ď at least in my region ď as Iím not really concerned about outside of my circle. I suppose I could have invested ( wasted ) my time as you have but truth is my time with family is much more valuable. Perhaps you donít value family time the same?
Old 09-26-2023, 05:50 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
LOL, I guess you missed where I said ď at least in my region ď as Iím not really concerned about outside of my circle.
And youíll notice that I acknowledged that - when I commented about region and outlier.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
I suppose I could have invested ( wasted ) my time as you have but truth is my time with family is much more valuable. Perhaps you donít value family time the same?
Wasnít a choice for several reasons: (1) On travel for business. (2) Literally took less time than it takes to enjoy a single coffee - including getting the data AND generating the analysis AND responding to your post. (3) Even if not on travel, time it takes is de minimis as the skills to do it are really trivially easy (for me at least).
Old 09-26-2023, 06:01 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
And youíll notice that I acknowledged that - when I commented about region and outlier.


Wasnít a choice for several reasons: (1) On travel for business. (2) Literally took less time than it takes to enjoy a single coffee - including getting the data AND generating the analysis AND responding to your post. (3) Even if not on travel, time it takes is de minimis as the skills to do it are really trivially easy (for me at least).
As is that posting.
Old 09-26-2023, 06:31 AM
  #40  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
And youíll notice that I acknowledged that - when I commented about region and outlier.


Wasnít a choice for several reasons: (1) On travel for business. (2) Literally took less time than it takes to enjoy a single coffee - including getting the data AND generating the analysis AND responding to your post. (3) Even if not on travel, time it takes is de minimis as the skills to do it are really trivially easy (for me at least).
Oh Iím not talking about one single post. Iím talking about the past decade of posting the same data with minimal results. You continuously talk about what you deem as a qualifying financial decision, what about time investment? Youíve mentioned many times that driving 30 minutes + to a chartered field being a waste of time not only for you but for parents of youth involved in the hobby. Has a decade of posting negativity about the AMA with limited impact justify the time you have devoted to it. Now I realize that your going to come up with some sly sarcastic answer for us here but at the end of the day you need to justify it to yourself not anyone here.
Old 09-26-2023, 08:17 AM
  #41  
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If you were at Marymore with 483 members you could say the hobby is doing flipping GREAT. Screw those piddly 14 member clubs and everyone else.

The 82 number was provided by AMA. Down to 48.4 in 3 years is huge, 41%. Hey out there, a 14% loss of members per year is not sustainable, AMA does not exist without the non-AMA side of RC. AMAers don't want to listen and don't care.

I mentioned to BarracudaHockey to run the unable to comply thing by AMA. I somehow missed that AMA partnered with AUVSI on Know Before You Fly. Seriously? Buzzy the Drone?
The Association for Uncrewed (Unmanned alternately) Vehicle Systems International bills itself as the largest non-profit commercial drone lobby outfit.

"Know Before You Fly, a partnership between AUVSI, the Academy of Model Aeronautics and the Federal Aviation Administration, is here to help." HERE TO HELP - Mark that in your book.






Last edited by ECHO24; 09-26-2023 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Some places list it as Unmanned.
Old 09-26-2023, 08:30 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Iím talking about the past decade of posting the same data with minimal results.
It would seem you would be more concerned about the AMA's minimal results, rather than one single person?

Originally Posted by speedfracerntrixie
. Has a decade of posting negativity about the AMA with limited impact justify the time you have devoted to it. .
Has the AMA justified their decade(s) of decline, even though they continue to collect a SALARY for doing so?

Seems as though your angst is misdirected.

Astro
Old 09-26-2023, 08:52 AM
  #43  
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AUVSI put out a statement on the Remote ID extension date that mirrors the FAA: "AUVSI urges drone operators to comply with Remote ID requirements as quickly as possible and for the FAA to swiftly implement all agency rulemaking."
"Urge" is the weak sister of "expect", We want/think drone owners will do what we want and with no pushback from AMA.
Old 10-03-2023, 01:36 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
Large overlap here with membership in the 2 major Jacksonville clubs. I pay for the 2nd for no other reason than the altitude waiver to fly turbines.
FWIW, or if you care, there's something funny with the website to club database search. If you total up all the unique charters from sites on city/state tab (all 83, note 1) you get one number of unique charters, if you total up all the same info by looking at the district tab pages (all 85, note 2) you get a different number of unique charters.

I you want to know more, which don't show under one or other method, PM. me.


Note 1 - City/State method: "... /club-finder?city=&state=&distance ... page=0" to "... /club-finder?city=&state=&distance ... page=82"
Note 2 - District method: "... /club-finder-district?district=&page=0" to "... /club-finder-district?district=&page=84"

Last edited by franklin_m; 10-03-2023 at 01:41 PM.
Old 10-03-2023, 04:28 PM
  #45  
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You spent all that time adding all that up and didn't post the numbers.
Old 10-03-2023, 04:37 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
You spent all that time adding all that up and didn't post the numbers.
ďÖ all that time ÖĒ

Thatís funny. Computer does it automatically in the background. Super easy.
Old 10-03-2023, 05:23 PM
  #47  
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And yet ... No numbers! Could it be it's "de minimis", some arcane collating discrepancy of interest to no one.
Old 10-03-2023, 08:40 PM
  #48  
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RCGroups also seem to have come to grinding halt. Let's look at the most recent post today from the smarter guys to see if we can kick-start things here at RCU:

Originally Posted
Massive compliance seems like a good thing... Assuming you meant NONcompliance, that's up to local LEOs and how bored they are, or how many complaints they get.

Today, 12:43 AM
Meant non compliance. Many more people are involved with this drone bit than just the regular general aviation crowd. It is getting quite the riff from the general public. Quite a difference in demographics.
Old 10-03-2023, 08:44 PM
  #49  
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Nevermind.
Old 10-03-2023, 08:51 PM
  #50  
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I inverted a new term, ****crossposting

It sounded a lot better before the censors at RCU

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