FYI: On Sat. Oct 04, '03, at the South Western Aeromodeling Conference, Mr. Carl Maroney presented an outstanding professional presentation of AMA and Insurance. I attended.

While I don't have a lot of notes, perhaps you may be interested in these figures.

For the CURRENT insurance year SO FAR, AMA has paid premiums and its share of payouts for insurance policies of:

Accident and Medical: Premiums $ 106,000.00 AMA Payouts; $332,242.63

Fire, Theft, and Vandalism: Premiums $7,277.50

Liability Basic $850,000.00 with layers $1,000,988.35

Total insurance costs to AMA so far: $1,446,508.48

Personal Observation: AMA paid the 332 grand out of the deductions. Information about the insurance company's payouts was not available.

There are outstanding claims in FL(2), IL, CA, TX, and MS.
One in FL involves a member that jammed a chisel through his own hand.

The one in TX is in MY club. (Hung a G-38 on a recommended 1.2 --1.8 airframe [Sig Extra 300XS] without any reinforcement. I wouldn't hang a .60 on that without a rebuild) After a few flights and a couple bumps in the grass, XX?X was tacking engine from front and the G-38 and firewall BIT him –Big time

One in CA, guy lost arm at elbow, 22" fiber prop.

One older story; Guy was injured severely by another flier. The "another flier" had forgotten to pay premiums on HO insurance. HO company weaseled out. AMA was primary for, I believe -- not in my notes -- some 1.2 mil. settlement. Injured party was unable to continue his profession. Airline Pilot.

Four AMA connected deaths this year so far: CA. CO. FL, IL,
Chasing FF on motorcycle/injured/died of complications.
Heart attack (CO but in OK at SAM meet.).
Watching airplane walking back with head high, trips and hits head, and I forgot to note one

One BIG Point: If A turns-on on B, and B causes injury/damage to C, then B is protected, however if A gets sued by C and/or B, A is all on his own – SO USE GOOD PROTECTION – USE SAFE FREQUENCY!!! (Note: This point was presented by CM in the Briefing,and in the Question/Answer session, I asked several questions to be certain I for certain understood the point.)

Personal Point: The Insurance program is for our protection against the other guy's error and injuring US. Even though there are some holes in the coverage, I prefer to be certain certain that all fliers in my company are AMA.


Some interesting Safety Discussion however a couple questions will be reviewed. I questioned the new AMA 2004 Safety Code which precludes any RC equipped for "Autonomous" flight. There will be a review of the definitions and wording. I was assured that auto-pilots such as FMA would be retained.
The other big topic is that we need more Info about accidents passed to the membership. Hate to say it but even Sandy Frank was all for that subject. The Insurance Broker (non-AMA) was also on our side. Carl M. promised to take it to the Safety committee.

Elect me for D-VIII VP and you WILL get more information.

Sorry for all you D-8 and neighboring persons that missed the SWAC.
I had a BALL! Spent far too much money!!!

_____________________________

Horrace D. Cain
AMA 539 CD & Leader
It's 'FLYING TIME' again, I'm gonna' leave you!

No sir, it's obvious you will furnish information.....'cold hard facts', as witnessed above. Bravo....This is a very good thing, and something I think may be missing in a lot of situations. Also, this common lack of information (at least it would appear so from browsing these forums) is also possibly part of the reason said P&Mers are P'ing and M'ing in the first place. Just an observation. Sometimes not being able to access such info while trying to make informed decisions is a frustrating experience, even for the most patient among us.[8D]

Thank you for the info Mr Cain.
It helps.

Brian

Edit-PS-Now, any interest in furnishing all interested parties, in full disclosure, any insurance policy info pertaining to coverages under the ama blanket policy, as well as all exclusions in the policy, aside from those contained in the Safety Code.

Thank you. I saw the list but did not copy it down. It is almost totally covered in the Membership Manual and the yellow card that you receive with your license.

One item to be aware of is that the membership year is Jan -- Dec. The Insurance year is April -- March. Those yellow cards and such you get NOW may be a point or two off the next April Insur. policies.

One item NOT covered and one that I consider a BIG point is this:

You TURN-ON when another flier is flying, thus shooting him/her down and they create a damage/injury, then that person is still covered, however if he/she sues you, then AMA Insur. will NOT protect you.

Hey Baby, Respect that frequency protection and any club/group operating without such protection, well, it could be YOU.

Edited...re-addressed in Hosses edit.

Brian

At SWAC, one need NOT be AMA or even a ticketed show customer to go into the meeting room and sit, listen to the presentation, and take part in the following discussion. It could not have been much more OPEN than that.

If one needs more than the info presented in the membership manual and web site, then I suggest one contact AMA and ask questions.

This thread was started as an informational item and not to nit-pick and argue perceived and/or actual sub-points.

The fact that an AMA member is covered with insurance to assist those or that which he may harm is adequate for my concerns. That is why I only participate in model aviation flying sessions among members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics or in those cases where I am providing Jetero RC Club Introductory Pilot service.

Ah....Ok Hoss. I was simply trying to find out where to find more info, since you seemed to be presenting it in this 'info. item'. I wasn't trying to nit-pick or argue, and if I came across this way I apologize. You brought up a scenario that I was responding to. Maybe you're speaking to yourself about nit-picking (one sub-point you brought up about exclusions) and arguing?? You've said you want to be a representative in the ama, and have been so before, so I figured you were the man to ask. I'll call.

Brian

Original message edited with more info.

Thanks for the information Hossfly.

This is the type of information that the AMA makes available all the time. It should be posted on the net and/or published in MA. If you, as an AMA member want specific information on about any subject, write your VP, or Carl, or Joyce, or whoever may have the answer, or call them. These folks will normally be helpful.

Having said that, Horrace has done a nice job of reporting the presentation made by Carl to the folks that seem to want it most, the members of this forum.

Nice job Horrace.

JR

Hi Jr,
I was just wondering, when you say this info 'should be available' on the ama web/MA, do you mean that you that it is there, or that you think it should be? I was thinking, if this info is available all the time from ama.....then why wouldn't it be published on the site? I know local clubs that seem to use their web sites better than the ama in divulging info. Seems strange. Inquiring minds want to know!![8D] Thanx.

Brian

Brian

If Carl prepared a professional report, as Horrace stated, it would only take a matter of minutes to prepare it for publication on the net. I don't know if it is there. If not, I can not think of any reason it should not be.

I am curious how many people were in attendance at the metting Horrace was at. At the AMA Convention here in CA, between 5-10 people were in attendance at the meetings the AMA held. That is out of thousands of showgoers. These reports seem to have a much higher demand here in this forum than to those attending shows.

Do I think the information should be put on the AMA page? Sure! But, I am one of an extremely small minority that has any interest. I have mixed emotions as to how much time and what resources should be used.

JR

Well JR, it's no wonder that there is soooo much crazy politics(read 'stuff'..lol) going on in the ama, given the apathy and low interest of members. (Kinda like all politics in this country.)
I think someone once wrote.....'the mice will play while the cat's away'.Or somethin' to that effect. Hmmmm, seems apt.
As to time/effort. Come now....how much would it really take?


Brian

Brian

Another poster, in another thread seemed to want every single conversation at HQ transcribed. Is that reasonable in your opinion? Where would you draw the line?

Just who would that be? If you are not still sullied up and are actually talking to me now, that is.

No, silly, your not a poster, your a dummy. Go practice your reading skills and read all the posts on the net and find it for yourself.

i would draw the line as:
any and all "official" business should be posted.
we have no need to read about so and so's grandchilds school play, or any of that stuff, but anything that is AMA business, can and should be a "matter of record".

So you want the conversations of the 54 people that work at HQ, plus any visitors, and of course, the EC?

it is done other places.
now, "oficial" has some room for discussion as to just what is "official" and what is routine.

Hey JR,
I would say that any meeting.. (including events, board meetings, basically anything affecting/discussing policy...not private conversation ) ...could be transcribed w/o too much trouble, couldn't they?
[:-] Like I said, the local club seems to have no problem doing this for their associate meets. Geeze....even the silver eagles club within has its meetings gone over in the newsletter there! Not every word that every person speaks has to be there....that's just plain silly, but if it is pertinent, then it should be there, at least IMO. There should be no prob. figuring what is pertinent to any normal individual.
It could be an itemized agenda, covering any points affecting the membership, changes to rules, inclusions, exclusions,policy, fees, dues, insurance.......basically you could go piece by piece through the bullets ama has listed as 'services' on their web-site and discuss/address how any of them have changed with-in that month...s'all.
Just a thought.[8D]

Brian

Very interesting, Hoss.

Hmmm.........I tried to picture this scenerio with people and events, rather than cold abstractions. Here's my short story (disclaimer: characters are fictional and not intended to portray any real persons)

Arnold A. majored in Political Science, and so lives with his parents and flips burgers at McDonalds to support his pattern flying addiction. One day Arnold arrives at the Jetero RC Club and unloads his pattern ship and flight box and prepares to bolt the wing the fuselage. He notices the left aileron is drooped, and in short order has the cause traced to a servo gear that has become stripped. Not a problem, there's a spare servo in the flightbox. After replacing the servo and linkage are removed/replaced, he flips on the radio to check that the servo travel and direction are okay. Leroy B. screams "I AIN'T GOT IT!!!" 2 seconds before his 1/3 scale Edge, which had just cleared the runway on takeoff, has barrel-rolled over the pilot station barrier and struck Horrace C. squarely in the back, crushing two vertebrae.
Fast forwarding a couple of month's we find Horrace C. in a courtroom, sitting in his wheelchair, while the matter of who is responsible for providing for his care for the rest of his life is being argued. Leroy B's lawyer successfully convinces the court there was no negligence on his part, hence no liability. Arnold A. is found to be 100% liable for injuries sustained by Horrace C.
Good thing the Jetero Club is AMA chartered, so Arnold was required to be an AMA member and thus covered by a $2.5 million liability policy, right?

Abel

Well lawyer talk HMMM... Great hypothetical! Maybe just the flying site should have the insurance policy and no need for the AMA specifically then. Maybe Hoss should not have exposed himself to the potential dangers involved with model flying in the first place...It goes on and on....The great “what if” has sold many policies.

Yep, just a hypothetical 'what if.'

Ever think about 'what if' your mother had not left you on the Tilt-A-Whirl too long when you were a child?

Abel

Abel

I never would expect that kind of childish behavior from you. I am going to refrain from a retaliatory personnel attack back at you tho.

Abe.......tsk-tsk.
And here I though you were the level headed one[]

Bri

>>>>>>>>>>
Good thing the Jetero Club is AMA chartered, so Arnold was required to be an AMA member and thus covered by a $2.5 million liability policy, right?

Abel
<<<<<<<<<<<

To the best of my understanding -- and in the question/answer session following the briefing -- I asked several questions about this briefing item, you are NOT RIGHT.

Arnold A is NOT COVERED under the AMA Liability Insurance for his action. He would be subject to any judgment against him, but he would be doing some fast flipping to support Horrace C who is the ultimate LOSER! (You like that term, don't you Able?)

That is why FREQUENCY CONTROL is of such importance on the local scene. It could well be YOU in that wheel chair.

If you go up to the Radio Manufacture's Support forum you will find a significant item that I have sent to Hitec. I also sent directly. No response yet.
IMO DANGEROUS. This happened to me just yesterday. While I have a basic transmitter and Buddy-Cord for each Airtronics, Futaba, Hitec and JR. I had left all but the JR @ home, as I had no firm appointment to instruct. Had my old Hitec Prism 7 / Spectra to fly a couple OLD airplanes.
To shorten, I set it up to instruct a basic Futaba and behold we discovered without any damage to anyone that the Hitec was transmitting on the Spectra freq.
Had to pull the Spectra. In all my instructing years since B-Cds, I had never configured a computer radio to use as a slave.
Scared _ell out of me, well maybe not all of it! [>:] Just can't quit learning.