Are Fire Extinguisher's required from Gaint Scale Gas Planes, And if Not WHY????? Can't Tell Me Kero Is More Volatile Than Gas. I know they are for pylon racing.

What gets me about this whole issue with Kero and Jet A versus gas, is people think that Kero or Jet-A is much more volatile than gas is not totally correct. You can take a 55 gallon drum of kero or Jet-A and through lit matches in it all day long and the only thing that will happen is the match will go out. Neither will burn unless itomized and under-pressure. Now try that with gas and see what happens!! Lately (since I can think where this thread just might go so I will start it) there have been very few if any fires resulting from turbines crashing. Reason being id because what we have learned over the last few years through fail-safe and emergency shut-down is that you take away the fuel pump and its not under presssure it wont burn. Also the kevlar tanks have not been bursting leading to fires as well. I think we have come real far in the last few years, and firery crashes we once saw are fewer and farther between thanks to the guys who are flying these things smartly and manufactuers that are building solid airframes. Lets keep moving in this direction and hopefully down the road fires wont be an issue.

Pete

100% correct, now my only question is Are they required for Gas Planes And Also where on the AMA site can you fin all the regulations on Gaint Scale Aircraft, say for example the 35 and 40 percent planes. FYI Im a jet flyer...

Fire extinquisters are required and should be imposed at every AMA chartered field. Unless you can rely on the membership to pee on any fire, providing they can.
yes you can throw a lighted match into a bucket if gas with out it exploding, its the fumes that must be considered, you can also repair a auto gas tank with welding (as long as it is FULL,) course trying anything might come under the heading of STUPID

Gasoline is more volatile than Jet-A, but the temps that turbines operate at are much higher than gas engines, creating more of a fire hazard.

One other thing, where can I find a list of all the AMA Gaint Scale Regulations, Is it just me or is the AMA site baffeling? lol

Well document #535 here:

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...-files/535.pdf

describes the "REQUIRED SAFETY STANDARDS FOR GIANT SCALE RACING" and #573 talks about the layout of the course.

In the 2004 Safety Code document here:

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...-files/105.pdf

there is only mention of 'giant' in relation to the racing document as described above.

In the 2003 Membership Manual there is only reference to the Giant Scale Racing as well. Nothing else to do with 'giant scale'.

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...memanual03.pdf

Other than that I cannot find anything. I agree the website layout is not the easiest to navigate and find things, so I maybe missing it, but it sure looks to me like there are no safety regulations mandated by the AMA for general sport giant scale aircraft. Somebody please correct me if I have overlooked them.

Yeah thats the only place I could find aything on Gaint Scale was Racing but I know there has to be some general rules else where, right?

This is stupid, we dont want any more regulation. If I have to lug my own extinguisher to the line everytime I fly that would be retarded. I have only seen one gas airplane catch on fire.

that would be one more than i have seen turbines catch fire.
and yes, i flew hombuilt turbines fer about 5 years.

First, except for turbines, there are no special REQUIREMENTS for flying fields or flight line equipment. There are RECOMMENDATIONS and SUGGESTIONS, some of which even make sense.

Second I was TOLD that the reason there is a fire extinguisher requirement for turbines dates back to the days of the propane engines where there were blow backs and fires. I can see why a fire extinguisher would be a good idea even with Jet A because the exhaust is hot enough to toast lots of unintended things that just happen to drift by the tail end.

Mongo, you gotta be kidding, unless you're talking about seeing them in person. I have seen at least three vids of turbines catching fire during startup or during a crash here on RCU.

in person, with yer own eyes, is the only way anything counts.
in reality, every flight box should have a extinguisher in it, cause i have also seen alchy fueled stuff burn.

edit, cause i pressed the wrong button, again<G>
i don't watch vidio of model avaition of any kind, the only thing more boreing that watching someone else fly, is watching a vido of other folks flying.
i am a participant in life, not a spectator.

In The Thousands of Turbines flights I have one seen 1 catch on Fire. Now small flames out the tail can not be considered a fire unless it's just ingulfing the plane becasue raw fuel does build up some times but with the newer ecu's, etc its becoming less and less seen.

BTW, There a NO rules against Gaint Scale Planes Except for Racing?

Are we now going to see jet guys and gas guys starting to fight with each other. When did anybody see a gas airplane catch fire on the flight line. Try and count the number of fires with a gas plane in a crash. If the jet guys have a issue with the AMA don't trytoo involve other people. We're in this hobby together for only one reason and that is to have fun with the plane of ourchoice.We should stand together and support each other.
Dennis

We have them at our field because we fly at a old dump. Methane build up can be a problem. The Ocala field has one at the starting stations. I think they are good insurance in case, but I have never seen or heard of a model plane catching on fire.

OK everybody, start thinking with your head and leave your as***** out of it. Every field should have a fire extinguisher handy. Every flyer should have a fire extinguisher handy. Every home/shop should have a fire extinguisher handy. You need one in your car/truck/van. Lots of things can burn. An electric plane under the right conditions could start a fire.

I guess when you are driving to or from the field and your vehicle catches on fire you just want me to pass by and wave my extinguisher at you and laugh cause you ain't got one!!!!!!!!

I don't think this is an issue of rules, its just an issue of having seen someone burn to death and not having something to put them out.

Ed M.

well put ED!

Everyone should either have an extinguisher with them or there should be one in each startup location. Regardless of aircraft or powerplant used....
Todd

Several things.

The Safety Code is the root of all evil.. oops... it is the source of all the safety regulations. In some cases, it refers to other documents, such as the turbine documents. It it is not there, as it is not for Giant Scale (general as opposed to racing) then there are no specific regs. There are several references within the Code to other documents, and some of those lead to other documents (such as racing, and then pylon racing).

It would seem that common sense would dictate a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher be part of each flyer's gear, kept in their car. Some fields are open to the public and it is not reasonable to require either to be out in the open where they will be used for something they are not designed for (like kids drinking at the field and deciding to find out how long a roll of gauze is, in the middle of the night). So much for common sense.

To me, it seems foolish to point at any segment of our hobby. The simple fact is that they all have risk. Bottom line, for every one of us: spinning props are dangerous. It goes from there. Debating the level of risk is counterproductive. We might be better served to debate what should be done at our fields to make them safer. (50% of the claims handled by the AMA are for 'trip and fall' type accidents, and not flying accidents. We might be better served with rules that required that we look at our fields for things like a piece of rebar that has been sticking up out of the ground for three years and eventually impaled a youngster, causing a large insurance claim. For those that don't realize it, the cost of the AMA commercial insurance policy works out to about $5-$6 per member, with the self insurance portion adding about $10 per member. Not enough to fight about, in my opinion.

Where newbies are concerned, I have been pushing my club to come up with a strict set of guidelines for new pilots. Too many are being cut loose too soon. Trying to make rules at the national level for this would, at the very least, be expensive. Trying to waiver a couple of thousand turbine pilots (about 750 currently) is one thing, trying to monitor thousands and thousands of new pilots is another. How many people would be required at HQ just for such a program? The clubs have to take some responsibility for safety issues, and newbies in one of those, in my opinion.

Hem & haw, geezs some of you guys need a life other this electronic wiz bang. Or maybe its your answer to a sexless life style. You come up with some of the most hairbrain questions I've ever seen.
Use your head with brains you were born with for something other that a place to put your cap on backwards.
If you don't care to follow any rules, don't
If you think extinguisters are wrong, don't carry one
If you want to find out if gas or kerosene or whatever will explode, try it
And then after you do what ever you want and maybe hurt yourself, take a look around I'll be rolling on the ground trying to contain myself from laughing so hard.
I saw a guy put a glow plug driver into his pocket once, third degree burns to his right testicle.
Bet that really smarts. Oh well as forest said "stupid is as stupid does.

How did he burn himself with a glow plug driver? It's not much more than a battery, no? Why is it stupid to put a battery in your pocket?

Mike,

A glow starter usually has a Ni-cad battery in it. If the end of the ni-starter would happen to short out against coins, keys, pocketknife, etc, it will get very hot very quickly. I also understand that they can explode if shorted out. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about the exploding ni-cads.

Is that exploding ni-cads or exploding gonads? Really though, how can a glow-starter short out on somebody's testicles? Not much metal in there!

lol, I have seen someone stick a Ni-Starter in there pocket with a few 22 rounds in there (bonehead move) and they happen to just go right in the hole and BOOM! lol and to be even more worse, it was at a fly-in and he was on the flight line

Did THAT wake him up? Or is he one of those who wants an explanation for everything?