3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

Yes, I think thats true unless your the Unabomber and your making everything with homegrown balsa, building from hand-drawn plans and using your machine shop to build everything else you need.....

I wonder who is more dangerous, the guy with the ARF or the guy with the hand-made propellers and home-made engines.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Does it matter if you buy planes that are above your ability or build planes that are above your ability? We obviously see my first example a lot more often than the second one and cut the builder more slack cause at least he invested time in the project but that doesn't make him any safer.

I say God bless the "checkbook modeler" because they support manufacturers and profesional builders, and when they sell stuff off it trickles down as better values for the rest of us. I do feel more capable than someone who buys ready to fly but you can make the same comparison of ARF vs. kit or kit vs. scratch built, who are any of us to draw the line as to what's "respectable"?

Lately I have seen "checkbook modelers" with turbines (perhaps the fastest growing segment of what we are talking about) and some of which need a buddy cord to fly. If I was in the turbine community I would have a problem with that type of modeler because I think that is where a lot of the new regulations are motivated from. If the turbine guys want to shoot themselves in the foot by selling planes to guys who have never flown fast or big but want a turbine and can afford it I say go for it.

So embrace the checkbook modeler, let them enjoy the hobby in their own way, keep your wallet handy when they get board of their equipment and always watch when they maiden a plane cause we all enjoy a good crash (even if we don't admit it).

the troll

Kevin

You really couldn't be more wrong.

You now want qualify this discussion with negative connotations. Bad move…Not buying into that childish ploy bud.

Your words:� I think that the type of checkbook modeler that everyone here steers clear of is the type that has more bucks than ability, refuses constructive criticism, refuses help with flying a model when clearly in trouble, asks for your input then tells you he believes his way is better, is a know-it-all, brags about all of his planes that he has then adds insult to injury by claiming to have crashed more planes than you'll ever own----"

Of course there are those types but not necessarily “checkbook modelers�
Shame on you…not even a GOOD try.



No one previously was referring to the obviously bad modeler (hell maybe you are one)...Just because he has money does not = Bad

I probably have instructed far more individuals than you! I instruct virtually seven days a week. It is not unusual for me to instruct 5 or more students in a single day. I have never met anyone else that has even come close to instructing at the level I do. The aircraft I own and fly range from the smallest glow powered stick to a very nice F-86. I own and fly most often, just about everyday, large 3-D types but may just fly a small electric if the notion strikes me. I build for others you might call "checkbook modelers" but I have also paid for others labor also. I regularly have other modeler’s projects going on a full time basis. The countless modelers that I have assisted have evolved in many ways. Some started out needing assembly of their ARF but later went on to BUILD their own kits. Others started out building and later on employed me to assemble ARFs. I see many that far exceed the top 10% skill level at flying and building but due to other constraints employ me to build, assemble or repair. Unlike you I haven't any need to label or qualify others to make my ego throb.

SO you are the one that is full of *****

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Troll,

Now, did I say that money = bad??? No, I didn't. I only qualified what a bad checkbook modeler is...One that most of us would steer clear of. There are plenty of them out there. You, with your initial "love, peace, and happiness" post got under my skin due to the fact that you quoted me but were too much of a wuss to attach my name to it. You seem to not have a clue as to the harm a guy with "more bucks than ability" could cause that buys a turbine and refuses to accept help. I've personally seen this happen. Desiring participation is one thing, but a man has to know his limitations.

I have SEVERAL friends that are good checkbook modelers. I have recently become somewhat of a checkbook modeler myself as I pretty much now will only buy ARF's. Now, I just don't have the time to get into elaborate building projects like I used to. (New family and all) I can build with the best of them....Not bragging---This comes from my peers as I've got the hardware that others have awarded me for my efforts.

I won't get into a large pissing contest with you concerning instruction other than to tell you I've been doing it for 35 years. Yep, at the tender age of seven I was getting all of my friends into control line. R/C came a little bit later. I've been very active at the club level, belonging to three local clubs and holding several offices, including president. I've been a JPO rep and helped 20,000+ modelers every month when I was a magazine columnist....So, what do I know about helping fellow modelers???

Kevin

the troll

Kevin

Ok...now I see... The YOUI referred to earlier was generic and not intended for you specifically. Sorry that I was not clearer. I have heard the term “checkbook modeler� used many times before by others and often used to belittle a fellow modeler which I take exception to. I just do not subscribe to that concept and believe the term is derogatory… but I guess might be used as term of endearment but not likely.

Sport_Pilot

Why the term bad checkbook modeler? Any checkbook modeler is bad. They have lodes of money, but expensive huge monsters they cannot fly, then scare the hell out of the people on the flightline. They are usually proffesionals or rich businessmen and consider themselves better than anyone on the field, thus they won't listen to good advise.

This is not the same as a well healed modeler who may be just as rich, and buys the same equipment, but only after their skills allow them to buy safely.

the troll

Exactly my point...We should stone them or maybe the AMA should gather info about a persons net worth and give modeling competency tests and if the quotient does meet a certain level they should be shot on the spot...since there is no hope for them.

They are the dregs of society!

Face it the compaction of the hobby has turned and for many has become more of a sport…which is just fine.

I have desired to belong to a club that allows only aircraft flown and built by the pilot. Can’t find one tho…but I still enjoy things just as they are also. There are many facets in this hobby/sport…We should only pick on them park flyer dudes… There needs to be laws against them…they should not be free to fly without AMA…ooppps That is another troll…errr…thread!

taxman232ex

Im with this troll feller. At my field we tar and feather anyone who shows up with a plane they didn't build themselves. We used to require photos of the build process but decided that some of the fellers was a folloin us by having their builder take the pics. Now we require a home movie of the build that must be reviewed by our safety committee.

Shoot - I bring balsa logs in from Thailand and process them myself. I used to have horses until I made my own glue and I use my grampas still to make my fuel.

I hate those businessmen with money.

Taxman

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Oh yeah? Well I used to fly my planes to school in the snow, uphill, both ways!

3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

My experience is the really rude modelers are the ones were 20-40 years of experience and they think that entitles them to something special. Sorta like if you don't respect me....by kissing my feet....I will bar you from the hobby. They tell you how they carved their propellers with a whittling stick. How they have trained thousand of modelers. How they use to use Silkspan and homemade dope to cover their airplanes.

And if you don't listen to them, your just going to crash. And, if you don't do it their way, your not really doing the hobby right and your stupid.

Thats the definition of rude to me.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

This is the mentality that I ran into back in the 70's when I first tried to get into the hobby. The lack of suffecient funds and the attitude now displayed is what took me until now to learn to fly. It is good to see that these thought are still around. It makes me even more determined to ensure that new modelers are treated fairly and educated when they come to any field that I belong or are flying at.

aerolou

My Feedback: (3)

Checkbook or not, a bad attitude is a bad attitude.
It does not matter weather you build or just want to fly.
Top Gun is a good example of checkbook modelers and builders all rolled into one.

I do not believe in second class people period, we are all equally deserving of the things we strive for.

Lou

3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

Oh yeah? Well I used to fly my planes to school in the snow, uphill, both ways!
____
I couldn't afford to go to school or an airplane. I built my first plane out of popsicle and match box sticks and homemade glue I made by squeezing sugar cane and milk weed together.

Can anybody top that?

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Well, that explains your posts.

3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

Intelligence is in the eye of the beholder....

Sport_Pilot

What the heck does net worth have to do with it? It's the number of planes they cannot fly that they insist on flying that is the problem! Lot's of well healed modeler's have no problem with this. We have one modeler who is very well off and started with 40 and 60 sized airplanes and now flys large IMAC gassers in IMAC competition. I don't think I have seen anything but a minor crash from him. He buys lots of stuff but is no checkbook modeler. However another one shows up with two to half a dozen new planes, usually lower priced planes that are ARF's or built by someone else, he crashes about half of them each time, gets mad if you make a suggestion. Even though his income is lower than the first the latter is the checkbook modeler.

3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

I've read this 4 times...and it cracks me up everytime.

(I really thought that taxmen....liked businessmen with money...what a quandary I'm in)

Sport_Pilot

I don't think its the experiance, its the age. Age makes you grumpy. I would put up with it to a point. Their arthritus may be acting up.

Sport_Pilot

.

Yes but it points out that we still don't agree with the definition of a checkbook modeler. I think we neeed to come to some kind of agreement on the definition.

3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

Any modeler with a checkbook....
My wife carries mine so I'm free and clear.

Sport_Pilot

How the hell can you compare some of the best pilots with the worst? No way are scale champions checkbook modelers, no matter how much they spend.

The only class that should be used are people who can safely fly their planes and people who cannot. Checkbook modelers cannot fly their planes and should not be allowed to do so.

Very rich scale, pattern, or IMAC champions who spend thousands more than most checkbook modelers are not checkbook modelers!

J_R

Troll

The term "checkbook modeler" is a derogatory term, as most use it on the net. It is a description of an individual whose wallet exceeds his ability. Like a lot of terms used in life, it could be misconstrued by those that are not familiar with it. It in no way is a knock on those that do not build, or those that chose to buy a plane rather than build. It is a term for the fellow that is head strong and refuses help and terrorizes those in the pits by trying to fly a plane that is beyond his ability. It can be a newbie that refuses help, or a decent pilot that continually buys and tries to fly a plane that is way above his ability level. It is not aimed at the guy that is trying to step up one level at a time and increase his ability, but is aimed at the guy that has a trainer which he is barely in control of, and shows up with a scale P 51, as an example. He disdains a buddy box as being beneath his ego level.

I thought Kevin did a pretty decent job of describing him.

JR

3d-aholic

My Feedback: (7)

Can't we all just get along

Especially here on New Year Eve.

Give Peace a chance!!!

Sport_Pilot

I Using the oft used phrase "more bucks than ability" doesn't quite cut it. I may have a millionairs worth of ablility, but if I inherit a billion dollars I am suddenly unsafe?

The checkbook modeler is unsafe at any price! He tries to improve his skills not by accepting help, but buying and crashing planes until he does. Sometimes he never attains the required skill this way. He is trying to buy the skill with his checkbook in this way.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

OK, let's talk specifics.

Timmy...he drives a Hummer to the field and pulls out his latest Warbird. I think he assembles some of them himself but I'm pretty sure he buys them ready to go also. Occasionally he will ask someone at the field'"is that a rental" meaning he will pay you $20 to let him fly it. If he put's it in he will buy it and everyone knows he is good for the money. He is a lousy pilot and crashes all the time to the point that it is funny, even to him. After a crash he drives out in the field in his hummer to retrieve the plane so occasionally when I see him take out a new plane I tell him to go warm up the Hummer.

So is he a checkbook modeler? Should we look down on him? He's a really nice guy who enjoys the hobby and can afford to not be the best pilot. He doesn't endanger anyone any more than a newbie with a trainer so what's the harm?

I could give about 10 more examples off the top of my head. What about you guys? Are we just talking about the idea of the Checkbook pilot that your pissed off about or is there someone in particular that is a problem?