It seems to me that I am hearing a lot about the dangers associated with checkbook modellers.

I guess I am a 90% checkbook modeller because I have people build my planes or buy ARF's.

The only thing I have built myself is my Heli and a depron flat-foam yak. I honestly have no desire to build - I just want to fly and have fun with the guys at the field.

Does the general membership really look down their noses at me and others like me?

I want to know. If you do, I think it is sad - especially from a group that procalims the following:

"AMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity.

AMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation."

No where do I see that you have to build your own models to be considered a true AMA member.

Todd

Todd,

If you have "More bucks than ability" then yeah, I steer clear of guys like this because they are UNSAFE!!! That is where the danger concerns are stemming from. If you can fly and then can pay someone else to build your planes, then more power to ya!!! I have a buddy that has me build a lot of jets for him because I do a nice job, not because he can't build them himself. He flies very well too....Got anything you want me to build for ya???[8D]

Kevin

To be honest, since the massive increase in arf's lately I see a lot less bad models than I used to. The stringbags that used to show up under the guise of personally crafted models astounded me. The majority of ARF's out there are built better than the majority of Kits that used to be built. If you want to fly and not build then go ahead, this attitude sounds like a thinly masked version of kit snobbery. Funnily enough most good builders often sold off unused planes and were quite happy with it, seems like they were pampering to the very group that a few seem to despise. Blaming poor flying skills on the ARF crowd is silly. We always had bad disciplined flyers and unskilled flyers too who built themselves or bought from other flyers, nowadays just because most newcomers get ready mades it is just easy to use that to polarise the discussion.

as kg implys, there are more than one level of checkbook modler, so it is hard to really respond to a 2 choice poll.

That's a bit drastic.
There are many good flyers than that don't build...
Then there are many good builders who can't fly!
Have you ever watched the videos from Top Gun? SOME of those guys I would run the other way if they took to the sky. And their planes are BEAUTIFUL!!! Maybe THEY're "Checkbook Modellers", huh?

The "Checkbook modeler" is the guy who consistentlly buys more than he can fly. His equipment normally exceeds his capability enough to make most look for cover when he launches.

The guy who buys or pays others to build for him just happens to have a different bank account, values, and standards than I do. He cannot be a checkbook modeler unless he always buys stuff that is well beyond his ability. The scale guys are in a different class.

I've built old-timers for other people, I like their checks.

Nope, I dont' even consider money a relevant issue in modeling. At least not until this hobby, or any other hobby, becomes a destructive obsession, ruinous to family life, etc, which I've seen on a few occasions.I've seen people ignore their wives and kids, and spend the grocery money on R/C stuff, which isn't cool. I consider ARFs to be probably the best thing to ever happen to the model airplane hobby, simply because its a known fact that for many years, building the toys has been what's kept a lot of people out of this hobby. More people flying has got to be a good thing. I used to badmouth ARF's, years ago when they were mostly made outta something resembling lead, and covered with wrinkled shelf paper, but now, if I had to buy a kit, and build a 4 channel trainer, there's simply no way I'd consider it. First off, I hate ugly boxy trainers, lol, always did. Second, why build something for $300 that I can buy already built for $250? I just finished a Midwest trainer .60 that's been laying around my shop for years. Would I go out and buy the same kit today and build it, no. I love to build, to me it's half the fun at least. But my subjects are stuff that mostly isn't available in kit form at any price, and I have the room and equipment to build anything I need. Lots of people dont have those options. Apartment dwellers, temporary job assignments, etc. As for flying ability, yep , there are lots of builders who can't fly, and lots of fliers who can't build. Some people love rubber band peanut planes, others park fliers or scale or jets or whatever. If they want to buy every nut and bolt pre assembled, why should it bother me? I'm having fun, thats the name of the game.

I prefer to model airplanes, not checkbooks.

Yep, you've got the definition of "checkbook modeler" completely wrong, Todd, and no, I don't consider them to be second-class citizens. I know one checkbook modeler in my club, and he's one of the most generous people in the club. A little opinionated, a little strange (aren't we all?), but otherwise a decent, all-around nice guy. Put a radio in his hands, and head for the nearest concrete bunker... Luckily, he may be a reformed checkbook modeler, as he still buys more than he can handle, but he doesn't try to handle them anymore. Instead, he flies one of his fleet of Sig Kadet Srs (ARFs of course) on the buddy cord. He can still make an R/C car fly better than many planes, though.

Is it a hobby or is it modeling, today the arfs are the majority of our sport. Notice how I said sport, that is because today with the ability to have instant gratification of the arf market it has changed the art of a hobby into a sport. Years ago there were a lot of modelers and people had no choice but to be proficient in building and then go try to fly, unless you had the cold cash or great buddy to build it for you. Today I don't think that the checkbook modeler is second rate citizen, in fact he is admitting his inability to produce something flight worthy, I do have a problem with the people who show up with some thing they are not ready for and won't be for a while. This to me is viewed as a second rate modeler, one who buys the best and has no clue on the rest, after all, some planes require you to have prior knowledge of setup and correct hardware to use in certain sized models and how to produce a safe, flight-worthy model. In other words, I don't think that a newly graduated high wing pilot of a arf that was built for him by someone else should pick up a 1/4 scale aerobat for a second plane, first of all he would lack the knowledge of proper installation of hardware and he would be lacking the discipline of checking the aircraft more carefully for problems. Then again he would have the deep pockets to have someone build it for him and the plane would slowly deteriorate in time from daily usage and that is where the danger comes into play. The average arf flier is a pretty good pilot, because he is flying while I build, it's the random person who prematurely steps up a notch or two for the superficial feeling of belonging and acceptance who is second rate.

I've always thought that a checkbook modeler was somone who didn't build their own planes, ie used their checkbook! I wonder if Jason Shulman or Chip Hyde build their own planes. I know that they design but actually build, of course their not checkbook modelers as they are sponsered and the planes don't cost them anything, lol.

Jon

I've had the opportunity to "fix" some arfs for the boys at the field after cracking up and most of the trainers were c**p quality. maybe the other ones are built right but I Know I can build them better.

The great thing about this hobby is that you can focus on many different aspects. If you love to fly, go buy a built plane and fly it. If you love to build, go build a plane and fly it. In theory a checkbook modeller would be a better flyer because they spend all their time flying and not building.

Personally, I like to build. I am VERY slow at it, and not very good, but I like it. But when I want to fly, I grab my ARF and go fly. It is also nice to bang up an ARF and not a plane you spent a year or more building.

We should look up to the checkbook modeller. They pour copious amounts of money into the hobby allowing manufacturers the capital to make new and improved products that benefit all of us.

ARF trainer manufacturers make a TON of money at Christmas when Mom and Dad get their kid a 40 sized trainer that will never actually make it in the air. We need these people. I say go spend all the money you want on an ARF, crash it, and go buy something else.

Manufactures don't make that much on a guy who buys a plane, builds it and flys it for the next 5 years. They make their money on Checkbookers. That helps us all.

I don't have a problem with someone that has "More bucks than ability"(I really hope we all do)... IMO a lame excuse for a definition of a checkbook modeler or any modeler for that matter. The problem is with them damn "Credit Card modelers"!!!! They give all of us more money than ability...LOL OK seriously this hobby/sport has plenty of room for those that desire participation...so stop all the derogatory use of terms everybody... That shows how small YOU really are!!!!!

If you have an opportunity to help a fellow modeler have as safe and enjoyable experience please do so… but if all you can do is run others down, so somehow you feel superior, then PLEASE ...YOU leave the sport/hobby...YOU are the type I have problems with!!!!

There's another category of modeler - the dumpster diver. Too cheap to buy any new balsa or kits. Pulls all of his material out of a garbage can after someone else's crash. Planes are covered with scraps of monokote no bigger than two inches. Every engine they own is worn out and takes 15 minutes to get running. They only use Fox plugs and flexible nylon props that haven't been produced in 20 years. Every time they go to the field, it's like the Wright brothers first attempt at flight - it's a miracle if they actually fly.

Whether you build or buy it doesn't really matter. What does, is acquiring the skills to set the airplane up and fly it safely. I quit teaching newbies because time and again they would show up with an airplane that was sometimes not even finished, a radio that was not set up or had basic programing and expect me or another instructor to set it up for them. They didn't want me to teach them how to set it up, that was to much like hard work! That is your "checkbook modeler".

In this hobby I have been blessed with more help and kindness than my pride will sometimes allow me to accept. One of these persons hates to build - almost everything he buys. The other two people build, one from kits, one from scratch. Everyone has different skill levels - whether it is building or flying. It is the love of flying - of airplanes that is important. RCers are a minority. Our sport is noisy and sometimes dangerous. We need to stick together, or those very valuable RF frequencies we use and the land we need to fly over will be taken from us by an indifferent public.

John
P.S. Before anybody gets the wrong idea - everyone raggs on everyone at my club. It is not a sweet syrup kind of place - but it is all done with a sense of humor.

For the record I've got 2 ARFs and 2 kits (though I still have to build 3 more kits). I like all aspects of this hobby and if someone has more money than me available for this hobby, no big deal, most do.

What the He!!, I build I fly I dig in the trash from time to time and pay CASH where they take it. Enjoy what you can afford, and be happy and don't worry about the other mans CHECK BOOK just make sure your's balances! My $.0005 worth

I always considered a checkbook modeler as someone who can buy but cannot fly, so I voted yes to the poll. But someone who is a capable flyer, has money to buy big expensive equipment, but seeks help when he is over his head should be welcomed to this hobby.

I thought the term came from "Checkbook racer". In the racing world the rich and sometimes famous drivers who buy an expensive racer but cannot drive well, professional racers curse them because they make the sport more dangerous. The same cannot be said for rich racers with a history of proven performance. I think Paul Newman comes to mind.

I think Matt Kirsh described the term best.

Troll,

You're so full of crap it's not even funny...[:'(] I've helped more guys than I'll ever be able to recall...I think that the type of checkbook modeler that everyone here steers clear of is the type that has more bucks than ability, refuses constructive criticism, refuses help with flying a model when clearly in trouble, asks for your input then tells you he believes his way is better, is a know-it-all, brags about all of his planes that he has then adds insult to injury by claiming to have crashed more planes than you'll ever own----As if that's a good thing.....The list could go on from here. Most bad checkbook modelers that I've known over the years that have bought their way into this hobby fit the above description in some way or another....If the guy is willing to learn, enjoys comraderie, is pleasant to be around, I'll be glad to help.

Now, don't even try to tell me that you would continue to be helpful to a bad checkbook modeler as described above.....

Kevin

No such thing as a checkbook modeler.

I say very few people anymore building their own propellers, growing their own balsa, or even mixing their own fuel for that matter (which is something I'm doing). But eventhough I mix my own fuel, half of my planes are ARF's.

I guess I have been a check book modeler for 4 years. If it was not for my job and what ie can afford me, I would not be able to fly.