Hello All. I have an AMA rule book Question.

What is the actual ruling for spinners on Giant scale planes.

I have a 28% Wild Hare Edge 540T with a 50cc engine and I was told that I must use a spinner to be so called legal.

I just wanted to know because I have seen guys flying aerobatic scale aircraft at certain events and they didn't all have spinneres on there planes. I even have a video of Quequi Somenzini flying a 30% Laser at a competition where he also did not have a spinner.

His plane as well as mine and all the others I have mentioned all have 6 bolt hubs that secure the props to the engine.

Can someone stear me in the right direction where I can read the exact rules for spinners in the ama rule book?

The only places I KNOW say anything about spinners being required are... RC combat needs a rounded spinner-nut or a spinner. And Pylon racing has a similar requirement...

Maybe they are confusing the giant sacle pylon requirements with the requirements for sport or aerobatic flying? DuBro's listing "meets AMA requirements" on their spinner-nut packaging has led to some confusion... some people THINK every plane has tohave some such device.

Even the D-VIII Education Coordinators [&:](husband/wife team) tried to tell me I HAD to have a spnner on a sport-aerobatic .40 size airplane to fly it. (I told them to read the rules.[>:] They didn't talk to me again for 4 months and they belong to my club.)






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ww.modelaircraft.org

If its ABSOLUTELY required any time that sze airplane is flown... (and its under 55 lbs..) its in the safety code.

If its over 55 lbs... look in the overweight waver sections and in publications, in the membership manual and competition regulations.

There is nothing in the AMA rules for Scale aerobatics or the AMA safety code that requires a spinner on any scale aerobatic aircraft.

Whomever told you htht there was a requirement is mistaken.

Bill
AMA Leader Member 4172

There at least used to be a rule somewhere in the AMA rule book that a spinner had to have a minimum radius - at least that is my memory in the two brain cells that I have left. As i recall (here I go again) it was stated to be so many millimeters - minimum - in radius. I think this was there way back in the good old days when people flew Frome spinners, which were very pointy.


Paul

The minimum radius rule is in the Pylon racing regulations... I beleve also in the RC combat regs. It may also be in some of the CL competition regs... There is such a thing as an "AMA Safety nut (which is essentially a large "acorn" nut) But its only required for certain types of competition.

RC Pattern Aerobatics rules have a minimum radius for the LE of the wing... but no spinner required.

Although I have searched the AMA site high and low, and looked at other doucments, I can not find an "AMA Safety nut". I did find AMA shirts, AMA cups, AMA pins and many other items.

At this point, I think the only thing "AMA Safety nut" refers to is you... and then, only in your dreams.

So far, your posts are without merit on the subject of spinners. Do the research and try again.

Well... he has been known to adhere the SC/rules to his flight box hmmm... yep he is a nut

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...k/rccombat.pdf

Section 3.4.2 under the scale competition rules

READ IT and SHUT UP

3.2 under the "open" class has essentially THE SAME wording

Should I bother finding other AMA docs that specificly mention an "AMA Safety Nut" or have you been sufficiently humiliated?

******

Tyoped a number

Events if you are looking for them and can't read... competition Event 750 for scale RC Combat and 755 for "open" RC Combat.

*****

Icing on the crow pie for J_R:

http://www.prop-shop.com/SPINHUBS.HTM

FOX 6504 AMA SAFTEY SPINN NUT 1/4-28 SH.....$ 5.00

http://www.prop-shop.com/g/f/fox60504.jpg

OK FH you are/were right... but just wondering how tight should we install you?

600 ft-lbs I'm high torque kinda guy.

No, troll, he is not right. Even after reparing a post hours after it was made the information he posted is wroing. One last chance, huber.

Right J_R...

Prove it wrong.

I pointed you to: the AMA regs that specify the rounded nut or spinner being required... which are also the AMA docs that say there is such a thing as an AMA Safety Nut... and a web site to BUY an AMA Safety nut.

You just said I was wrong and provided no proof.

I think all you did is prove yourself to be a jackass

You want to contact the AMA D-VIII Education coordinators and ASK them if they remember telling a guy to not fly a 4*40 without a spinner? Thier e-mail address is on the AMA Dist-VIII website.

Here's the story:
I was flying the 4*40, mostly practiceing touch-n-goes (to try to cure my landings...) I had a bad landing which snapped the prop. (which was VERY typical for me at the time... thats why I used "Propbreaker" for a username, I broke the prop almost every flight.)
I noted the spinner was cracked while changing the prop... so I was simply leaving it off when up walks "Mr Education" and tells me I can't fly without the spinner.
I asked why not? and he said it was against AMA safety code.
I asked him to show me where. He responded by getting "Mrs Education" involved... and she said that because I had ONCE flown the 4* on a club combat round... it forever needed the safety nut or spinner.

There is no place that says that an airplane once flown in a competition must forever meet the competition's rules.
The club safety officer had no problem with me flying the model without the spinner... The club president had no problem with it...

ONLY "Mr and Mrs Education" had a problem. (They had a problem with being proven wrong...)

They were FULL OF BS....


Just like J_R.

*************

And yes I repair Typos... hell haven't you ever made a typo?

*************

And yse... I make addendums... and the revision history is right there for you to review.

Butthead

JR

What post did FH change hours later in this thread? I looked and don't see it. I wonder if our time stamps appear the same to each of us?

EDIT to see time variance

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...k/rc-pylon.pdf

AMA competition rules page... pylon racing .... go to section 7.4 for the pylon racing rule that says... you have to have the spinner or safety nut. It doesn't say "AMA Safety Nut".... but the requirement adds up to it.

Now I've absolutely proven All the places I said DEFINITELY would reference it do reference it.... I'm not going to bother with the CL sections, because... I said:

But... do you want me to pull up the reference on leading edge radius for Pattern?

Be a good butthole... look it up yourself. Its there.

Heck FH now you are talking to yourself Hmmm... The 'scale' of this argument is a giant combat that no doubt you will prevail.

Sal,
Would you say all this has cleared up your question?

My bet is... his question was covered to his satisfaction at post #3... (because he had the correct answer by then.)

HI FHH! I had the same thing happen to me several years ago, I was told by the club safety officer to put a spinner on my 40 size sport flyer. The club had no such rule, the safety officer was only exerting his authority. It reminded me of all the episodes of the ANDY TAYLOR SHOW when BARNEY FIFE was left in charge. I think some people are genetically predisposed to seek out positions in life where they can enforce their own beliefs and values on other people. It sounds like you and JR have some kind of "history" between you. He really should pick his times to try to shoot you down better, you are absolutely right about each and every point that you made, and spent way more time than it was worth to furnish JR with proof. All he has been able to accomplish so far is put himself on my mental list of people who I "firewall", and of course make himself look like a JACKASS!

combatpigg,
Don't judge to soon, keep reading.

Hi Sal

I will try to give you an answer to your question, as best I can.

First, for sport flying, there is no hard and fast rule. (forget planes over 55 pounds, there are less than 20 in existence at this time.). The AMA does say this, in the Membership Manual, page 5, as a strong suggestion: “The following constitute good general safety practices...” “•Refrain from using a pointed spinner, propeller fasteners, or knife-edge leading edges.” Sal, this is not a portion of the Safety Code, but, is the AMA’s stance on safety. Of course, if there is a club rule requiring spinners, it carries the weight of the safety code, via rule 3 of the safety code. From this suggestion, it is obvious that an AMA safety spinner does not comply with this suggestion, as it is pointed.

You do not make clear r just who told you it was improper not to use a spinner. The answer here is somewhat more complicated. If it was just someone at the field, the above applies. If, on the other hand, it was at a sanctioned event, then the Competitive Regulations come into play for the sanctioned event. To be a class 5A, 4A, 3A, 2A, or A event the CD MUST run it per the rule book. That does not preclude the CD from changing the event, in many ways, including requiring a spinner, or other wording to that affect. It does however, reduce the class of the contest to being a D event, by definition. So, if it was a CD that told you it was unacceptable, he may or may not have been correct, depending on how the sanction was granted and what the event was.

I think that pretty much answers your question. You need to look at the Completion Regulations for any particular event to determine it’s affect on you, or the event description for changes a CD may have made.

Let me digress at this point and address other posts here which may or may not be of interest to you.

In so far as the Pylon regulations are concerned, the spinner rule states: 7.4. Spinner or prop nut. On all aircraft, the front end of the engine crankshaft shall be covered with a rounded spinner or safety nut. A spinner with a flat, oval, or Allen (hex) head of at least 3/16-inch diameter on the front fulfills this requirement. The use of a spinner of any size in Quickie 500 or SportQuickie shall not be considered streamlining of the engine.

A quick glace at the supplied links to the AMA spinner will show you that these spinners do not meet the radius rule for pylon

As to the information about combat the rule states: 3.4.2. A muffler or tuned silencer is required and may not exceed eight (8) inches in length. No other engine restrictions are in effect. Two-stroke, four-stroke, or diesel engine, stock or modified, that satisfy the displacement requirements are acceptable. The use of electric motors is acceptable as long as the aircraft meets the weight requirements as detailed in 3.3. with batteries in place. All engines must have some sort of rounded spinner or safety cover on the prop shaft, such as an “acorn nut” or AMA safety nut. No bare threads are allowed.

This rule states that bare threads are not allowed. It requires some sort of cover over those threads. There is no mention of a minimum radius as there is in the pylon rules. The use of an acorn spinner or an AMA safety nut are given as examples of ways to comply. There are others, for instance a dowel that is properly threaded would comply with the rule.

The point here is that each event has it’s own rules, and no rule of thumb is adequate for all. You must look at the rules and the sanction to determine the spinner requirement.

In short, saying there is a minimum radius for combat is in error; saying an AMA safety nut meets the pylon rules is in error.

Edit: 90% is not good enough. There is no partial credit in real life.

Troll

The time differential is now only a few minutes. I give up on time stamps and will no longer reference them, regargless. If I deem it that important, I will run quotes, although doing that in every case is a waste of bandwidth.

Just a note from a lurker of this thread... JR, you're right, the timestamps are very odd here, sometimes.
Occasionally, on first edit, even if within minutes of posting, the edit time is shown in GMT, instead
of your previously selected forum offset. This may "sometimes" correct itself later, but "sometimes" remains.
(I really never saw it "right" itself until now... I do have examples of where it kept the erroneous timestamp)

It's a minor bug in asppg's forum software, apparently. (Or somewhere in RCU's customizations). It's probably a
bit tedious to track, being so intermittent. (It can be duplicated, but it's probably not high on the priorities list)

Definitely agree that you have to be careful relying on timestamps here, especially on edits.
The coolest is when you post, then edit 2 minutes later, and the edit time shows to be 5 hours in the FUTURE.
(Days afterward, it looks like you "edited" five hours later. Viewed early enough, however... the bug is obvious.


Oh well... back to your regularly scheduled flame'age

(Edited, just to check)

What the heck...in the end that is all we are doing anyway

I guess I learned something in this thread...I will make sure all my planes have something covering the exposed threads of the crankshaft...I would rather do that than have to hurt an AMA Safety NUT[X(]

or get hurt by one

Quod erat demonstrandum