Why the AMA is not growing...........
10-29-2013 | 11:11 AM
#2727
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From: Comus,
MD
If I may chime in here on this discussion. My son and I were looking thru my latest Model Aviation magazine and he commented to me "Do you have to be old to fly dad?" I asked him why he said that and he started pointing out all the pictures of older guys flying. As I looked thru all the pages and looked closer, EVERY president of EVERY club is definitely my elder. I am 53. My son is 9 and does enjoy flying foams and heli's with me. But when we go to our field, he gets hard looks from the elder statesmen and feels uncomfortable, then wants to leave. I guess what I am trying to say is, maybe the "older" cliches should give way to younger people, still stay heavily involved and maybe take the role of guidance. The profound effect if younger people saw younger faces in the magazines and someone they felt was closer and more understanding of their age, it might bring more. I know my club is basically controlled by a certain number and if you think differently from them, you are ostracized and pretty much condemed. There should be , like our government, a specified amount of time that you can be president, vice president and down the line. Opening the doors for new ideas and giving others a feel of hope.
Richard
Richard
10-29-2013 | 01:10 PM
#2729
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From: Comus,
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Richard & Son,
I completely agree. I shared these thoughts in an earlier reply to this thread.
The AMA is crowded with old school types that live in the past. Take a look at the District Vice Presidents. There must be a age restriction, under 70, need not apply. They do a miserable job marketing the hobby because in the past marketing wasn't needed.
For the AMA to evolve, they need to attract a younger audience. The club scene isn't much different today than it was when I was 9 in 1972, I'm about your age. I belong to three clubs to have three different places to fly. The "good ole boy" network remains in tact because the retired members need the enjoyment of the retirement brotherhood of the club. I ought to know, my 86 year old Dad is still the president of one of my clubs after 40, yes 40 years.. Heaven forbid if I again mention retiring from the club and enjoy his retirement.
I hope the best for the AMA. I wish it had a brighter future. If the answer is Hoot Gibson, it's not going to resonate. Believe me, I grew up with Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo rockets hanging from the ceiling in my bedroom with my control line and RC models. I respect the hell out of Hoot and what he accomplished in a life or death situation as his occupation.
Ask your son "Who's Hoot"?
Regards,
Bill
I completely agree. I shared these thoughts in an earlier reply to this thread.
The AMA is crowded with old school types that live in the past. Take a look at the District Vice Presidents. There must be a age restriction, under 70, need not apply. They do a miserable job marketing the hobby because in the past marketing wasn't needed.
For the AMA to evolve, they need to attract a younger audience. The club scene isn't much different today than it was when I was 9 in 1972, I'm about your age. I belong to three clubs to have three different places to fly. The "good ole boy" network remains in tact because the retired members need the enjoyment of the retirement brotherhood of the club. I ought to know, my 86 year old Dad is still the president of one of my clubs after 40, yes 40 years.. Heaven forbid if I again mention retiring from the club and enjoy his retirement.
I hope the best for the AMA. I wish it had a brighter future. If the answer is Hoot Gibson, it's not going to resonate. Believe me, I grew up with Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo rockets hanging from the ceiling in my bedroom with my control line and RC models. I respect the hell out of Hoot and what he accomplished in a life or death situation as his occupation.
Ask your son "Who's Hoot"?
Regards,
Bill
10-29-2013 | 07:32 PM
#2730
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Yep, all the old guys should turn in their AMA cards, then the membership will grow by leaps and bounds full of young, healthy, energetic and gallant young lads galloping on their unicorns to all the newly emancipated AMA fields that will lay at the end of every rainbow.
10-30-2013 | 12:51 AM
#2732
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From: BILOXI Mississippi
The R/C field at the end of every rainbow. Not bad, Heck I will go on and say, well said. We all have a story. Model air craft flying is about as controlled as nailing Jell-o to a Mississippi Pine on a August day. One of my all time best stories is the new dude comes out and after six months knows everything that is wrong with a club. Some clubs have only been around for fifty years they need fixing.
10-30-2013 | 05:10 AM
#2733
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From: Apopka,
FL
Ahh yes here we go again ......................... So the officers at your club are old guys that have held office foerever? Well have YOU RUN FOR OFFICE?????? Or do you just not have the support to win an election? If not what should you do?
It is very easy to start an AMA Club, all it takes is 5 AMA members and $30.00 so what is stoping all the under 40 somethings from starting your own Club?
Of course what is wanted is the facility and field, just not the old guys that fly there on weekdays.................
You know the old guys that:
banded together to form a Club
searched for the right land to build a field
bought the land by putting up the cash or through there dues have paid the lease/loan
built the facility and developed a flying site
showed up on workdays to maintain the field
paid there dues for all those years to keep the Club operating
and enjoyed the company of there friends
Excuse me if I sound harsh but I have been a AMA Club Secretary, Treasurer and Club President, and over the years have been part of building and developing three different RC flelds. Lost the first two to residential development. Each of those fields cost over $10,000 each to develop and maintain. Now we are so far out in the country that the latest field may last for quite awile.
So do the work, pay the bills, put in the time and effort and you can have the Club of your dreams......................
It is very easy to start an AMA Club, all it takes is 5 AMA members and $30.00 so what is stoping all the under 40 somethings from starting your own Club?
Of course what is wanted is the facility and field, just not the old guys that fly there on weekdays.................
You know the old guys that:
banded together to form a Club
searched for the right land to build a field
bought the land by putting up the cash or through there dues have paid the lease/loan
built the facility and developed a flying site
showed up on workdays to maintain the field
paid there dues for all those years to keep the Club operating
and enjoyed the company of there friends
Excuse me if I sound harsh but I have been a AMA Club Secretary, Treasurer and Club President, and over the years have been part of building and developing three different RC flelds. Lost the first two to residential development. Each of those fields cost over $10,000 each to develop and maintain. Now we are so far out in the country that the latest field may last for quite awile.
So do the work, pay the bills, put in the time and effort and you can have the Club of your dreams......................
10-30-2013 | 05:38 AM
#2735
My Feedback: (3)
Ahh yes here we go again ......................... So the officers at your club are old guys that have held office foerever? Well have YOU RUN FOR OFFICE?????? Or do you just not have the support to win an election? If not what should you do?
It is very easy to start an AMA Club, all it takes is 5 AMA members and $30.00 so what is stoping all the under 40 somethings from starting your own Club?
Of course what is wanted is the facility and field, just not the old guys that fly there on weekdays.................
You know the old guys that:
banded together to form a Club
searched for the right land to build a field
bought the land by putting up the cash or through there dues have paid the lease/loan
built the facility and developed a flying site
showed up on workdays to maintain the field
paid there dues for all those years to keep the Club operating
and enjoyed the company of there friends
Excuse me if I sound harsh but I have been a AMA Club Secretary, Treasurer and Club President, and over the years have been part of building and developing three different RC flelds. Lost the first two to residential development. Each of those fields cost over $10,000 each to develop and maintain. Now we are so far out in the country that the latest field may last for quite awile.
So do the work, pay the bills, put in the time and effort and you can have the Club of your dreams......................
It is very easy to start an AMA Club, all it takes is 5 AMA members and $30.00 so what is stoping all the under 40 somethings from starting your own Club?
Of course what is wanted is the facility and field, just not the old guys that fly there on weekdays.................
You know the old guys that:
banded together to form a Club
searched for the right land to build a field
bought the land by putting up the cash or through there dues have paid the lease/loan
built the facility and developed a flying site
showed up on workdays to maintain the field
paid there dues for all those years to keep the Club operating
and enjoyed the company of there friends
Excuse me if I sound harsh but I have been a AMA Club Secretary, Treasurer and Club President, and over the years have been part of building and developing three different RC flelds. Lost the first two to residential development. Each of those fields cost over $10,000 each to develop and maintain. Now we are so far out in the country that the latest field may last for quite awile.
So do the work, pay the bills, put in the time and effort and you can have the Club of your dreams......................
Club officers are the guys who figure out ways to make it work so all in the club will have a place to fly. Sometimes that means finding a way to get the equipment, manpower, and/or funds to make necessary improvements (like removing a tree line so you are not flying in a valley) needed to have a good flying field. Sandy Frank used to tout his "Dirty Dozen" award and how it was for those special people who make it happen in the modeling community. If you are a club officer for more than 3 years, you should get one of those awards. Too bad it was unofficial and became a political toy because the concept was accurate.
Last edited by Jim Branaum; 10-30-2013 at 05:41 AM.
10-30-2013 | 06:50 AM
#2736
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From: Apopka,
FL
There has always been a misunderstanding concerning what the responsibilities of a Club are to the AMA and what effective control the AMA has over Club activities.
Just what are the requirements from the AMA:
A Club is a private association that can exist without the AMA, in reality the most significant benefit that the AMA offers a Club is a insurance policy covering the landowner for $60.00 a year. Sure there are numerous other benefits for an AMA Club but the insurance is the deal maker.
What the "old guys" at the AMA understand is that if the AMA were to impose additional requirements on the AMA Clubs, it would result in a number of Clubs going private (non AMA) as equivalent landowner insurance can be purchased for a higher but still affordable cost.
Remember your individual AMA benefits and insurance apply wherever you fly, not just at an AMA Club. And non AMA members can fly at AMA Clubs if the Club allows it. They can just not be "members" of the Club.
So bottom line, the control that the AMA has over Clubs in minimal at best and in allignment with the benefits provided to the Club.
Just what are the requirements from the AMA:
• I acknowledge that our AMA Club Charter requires each and every member who participates in club flying activities to be an AMAmember (per the AMA Bylaws, Article III, Section 2.[b]) of Junior, Senior, Open, Park Pilot, Three-Month Trial, or Affiliate category or
is a current Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) member. Affiliate, Three-Month Trial, or MAAC members cannot
hold office.
• I further understand that the AMA Safety Code under the RC Section states “RC model aircraft will not operate within three (3) miles
of any pre-existing flying site without a frequency-management agreement (AMA Documents #922-Testing for RF Interference; #923-
Frequency Management Agreement). Spread Spectrum technology (2.4 Ghz) being sold by most RC manufacturers is completely legal
for use in all RC categories. Many of the new ready-to-fly (RTF) airplane sets are being delivered with these systems. Spread Spectrum
does not itself require keeping track of a specific frequency and will not interfere with systems already in use.” The Frequency
Management Agreement requirement is waived on a provisional basis for club(s) operating exclusively on 2.4 GHz; however, the club
will have to submit a 2.4 GHz agreement to AMA.
• I have submitted a current copy of the club’s bylaws and agree that the club will abide by same. If additions, deletions, or alterations
are made to this document, I will see that AMA receives a current copy with the revision date provided.
• I attest that my club has an open membership regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, gender, age, or disability.
My signature below signifies that my club is in full compliance of this requirement.
PROVISIONS FOR NEW CHARTERED CLUBS
Charters for new clubs are issued on a provisional basis for a period of one (1) year from the date of chartering. During this period, the
charter (and accompanying liability insurance for the new club) may be revoked if club operations conflict with those of previously
existing chartered clubs in the same locale. This might, for example, arise from RC frequency interference brought about by the new
club’s operations. Thus, newly chartered clubs are charged with the responsibility of operating in a manner to avoid conflict with
already existing AMA chartered clubs.
If, upon the completion of one (1) year of operation, there is no evidence of conflict with operations of another chartered club which
was previously established, provisional status will automatically end, and the club will be considered as chartered without reservation,
as long as charter status is maintained without interruption.
It is further understood that the new club will not interfere with or otherwise jeopardize the relationship between an existing club and
the landowner of their flying site.
is a current Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) member. Affiliate, Three-Month Trial, or MAAC members cannot
hold office.
• I further understand that the AMA Safety Code under the RC Section states “RC model aircraft will not operate within three (3) miles
of any pre-existing flying site without a frequency-management agreement (AMA Documents #922-Testing for RF Interference; #923-
Frequency Management Agreement). Spread Spectrum technology (2.4 Ghz) being sold by most RC manufacturers is completely legal
for use in all RC categories. Many of the new ready-to-fly (RTF) airplane sets are being delivered with these systems. Spread Spectrum
does not itself require keeping track of a specific frequency and will not interfere with systems already in use.” The Frequency
Management Agreement requirement is waived on a provisional basis for club(s) operating exclusively on 2.4 GHz; however, the club
will have to submit a 2.4 GHz agreement to AMA.
• I have submitted a current copy of the club’s bylaws and agree that the club will abide by same. If additions, deletions, or alterations
are made to this document, I will see that AMA receives a current copy with the revision date provided.
• I attest that my club has an open membership regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, gender, age, or disability.
My signature below signifies that my club is in full compliance of this requirement.
PROVISIONS FOR NEW CHARTERED CLUBS
Charters for new clubs are issued on a provisional basis for a period of one (1) year from the date of chartering. During this period, the
charter (and accompanying liability insurance for the new club) may be revoked if club operations conflict with those of previously
existing chartered clubs in the same locale. This might, for example, arise from RC frequency interference brought about by the new
club’s operations. Thus, newly chartered clubs are charged with the responsibility of operating in a manner to avoid conflict with
already existing AMA chartered clubs.
If, upon the completion of one (1) year of operation, there is no evidence of conflict with operations of another chartered club which
was previously established, provisional status will automatically end, and the club will be considered as chartered without reservation,
as long as charter status is maintained without interruption.
It is further understood that the new club will not interfere with or otherwise jeopardize the relationship between an existing club and
the landowner of their flying site.
What the "old guys" at the AMA understand is that if the AMA were to impose additional requirements on the AMA Clubs, it would result in a number of Clubs going private (non AMA) as equivalent landowner insurance can be purchased for a higher but still affordable cost.
Remember your individual AMA benefits and insurance apply wherever you fly, not just at an AMA Club. And non AMA members can fly at AMA Clubs if the Club allows it. They can just not be "members" of the Club.
So bottom line, the control that the AMA has over Clubs in minimal at best and in allignment with the benefits provided to the Club.
10-30-2013 | 08:33 AM
#2738
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From: Houston, TX
I don't seen anything wrong with the AMA, AMA clubs, or with the members that fly at those clubs. I do see a middle class that has been contracting for decades. And I see an expensive hobby. I also see many alternative forms of entertainment like XBOX, PlayStation, Computors with Flight Sims and FaceBook, YouTube, etc.. I see televisions with 400 channels. And all of those things can be shared with the entire family. Whereas this hobby is basically a Dad's selfish interest. Admit it, this hobby cost a lot of money. The money and time required for this hobby is available to a shrinking portion of the population. And in that subset, the selfishness of the expenditure is increasingly viewed unfavorably. Consider yourselves the lucky ones. Enough with the diatribes. Go forth and enjoy what you have.
10-30-2013 | 09:00 AM
#2739
How open and inviting a club should be is a challenging question. I don't know of a club in my area that doesn't struggle with attracting new pilots and converting them into dues-paying members. Enforcement of a strict "no guests" policy and a lack of open house events where non-members are welcome almost guarantees your membership will decline. Be too welcoming, and pilots will hang out and fly at your field year after year without ever contributing to its maintenance and upkeep.
In order to get people to come to your field and fly, you have to get people to come to your field and fly. The obviousness of that statement is actually lost on some flying clubs. If folks come out to a flying field, and the members are welcoming and people are flying and having a good time, new people will want to join. If members aren't welcoming to new visitors, your club may be sunk before you ever get a chance to talk to a new prospective member.
Some of the members at my primary flying club don't want new members. They've belonged for decades and put in the time, effort, and money needed to maintain the field. They want to hang out with their buddies, fly in peace, and not be bothered by a bunch of new people taking up the good parking spaces and crowding the flight line. If a prospective new member talks to one of these guys, they'll go find a new hobby rather than trying to learn to fly at your club. Why put up with that kind of attitude when they could go geocaching or learn to blow glass instead?
The AMA grows when its member clubs grow. I don't know anybody who started out wanting to join the AMA, and then decided to join a local club and learn to fly because it was expected for AMA membership. The way to grow the AMA is to grow your local flying club. Welcome new visitors, thank a spectator for coming out to watch and offer them a cold soda, help beginning pilots and encourage their growth, present the sport of model aviation to a wide audience in a fun and positive manner. If your club is having a good time, people will want to join to get in on the fun. When your club grows, the AMA grows.
In order to get people to come to your field and fly, you have to get people to come to your field and fly. The obviousness of that statement is actually lost on some flying clubs. If folks come out to a flying field, and the members are welcoming and people are flying and having a good time, new people will want to join. If members aren't welcoming to new visitors, your club may be sunk before you ever get a chance to talk to a new prospective member.
Some of the members at my primary flying club don't want new members. They've belonged for decades and put in the time, effort, and money needed to maintain the field. They want to hang out with their buddies, fly in peace, and not be bothered by a bunch of new people taking up the good parking spaces and crowding the flight line. If a prospective new member talks to one of these guys, they'll go find a new hobby rather than trying to learn to fly at your club. Why put up with that kind of attitude when they could go geocaching or learn to blow glass instead?
The AMA grows when its member clubs grow. I don't know anybody who started out wanting to join the AMA, and then decided to join a local club and learn to fly because it was expected for AMA membership. The way to grow the AMA is to grow your local flying club. Welcome new visitors, thank a spectator for coming out to watch and offer them a cold soda, help beginning pilots and encourage their growth, present the sport of model aviation to a wide audience in a fun and positive manner. If your club is having a good time, people will want to join to get in on the fun. When your club grows, the AMA grows.
10-30-2013 | 11:08 AM
#2740
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From: Apopka,
FL
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2012 - 154,598
What is it that causes posters here to not understand that between 2011 and 2012 the AMA membership grew by 11,397 members.
Is there some sort of perverse logic that causes the "glass half empty" syndrome? ............................. "the continued decline"?
10-30-2013 | 11:42 AM
#2741
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2011 - 143,201
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2012 - 154,598
What is it that causes posters here to not understand that between 2011 and 2012 the AMA membership grew by 11,397 members.
Is there some sort of perverse logic that causes the "glass half empty" syndrome? ............................. "the continued decline"?
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2012 - 154,598
What is it that causes posters here to not understand that between 2011 and 2012 the AMA membership grew by 11,397 members.
Is there some sort of perverse logic that causes the "glass half empty" syndrome? ............................. "the continued decline"?
10-30-2013 | 11:53 AM
#2742
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From: rhinelander, WI
I have belonged to the ama off and on since the fifties; it's a good organization!
my problems are with the locale club's, and there arbitrary rules that cover
everyone except club officers,and there friends.
I fly alone and electric, and having fun!
my problems are with the locale club's, and there arbitrary rules that cover
everyone except club officers,and there friends.
I fly alone and electric, and having fun!
10-30-2013 | 01:05 PM
#2743
My Feedback: (15)
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2011 - 143,201
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2012 - 154,598
What is it that causes posters here to not understand that between 2011 and 2012 the AMA membership grew by 11,397 members.
Is there some sort of perverse logic that causes the "glass half empty" syndrome? ............................. "the continued decline"?
AMA MEMBERSHIP 2012 - 154,598
What is it that causes posters here to not understand that between 2011 and 2012 the AMA membership grew by 11,397 members.
Is there some sort of perverse logic that causes the "glass half empty" syndrome? ............................. "the continued decline"?
knowing that it is also some 19,000 behind it's 2002 membership level does not breed confidence. and even 10,000 or so behind 1992 levels.
10-30-2013 | 02:35 PM
#2745
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From: Apopka,
FL
Dang! I wish bradpaul had jumped in earlier. It would have saved us some time to know the AMA is growing and doing well. I'm not sure we sound the all clear however. Here's a graph from the AMA web site with stats through September 2010. Although numbers may have increased between 2011 and 2012, and I believe bradpaul didn't make them up, the growth rate doesn't seem promising compared to the glory days of the AMA. Doesn't seem "perverse" but it's good to know we're thriving. I wonder what the stats are for digital gaming, social media, the internet and model cars.
Jumped in earlier?????????????? Of course the fact that I posted those numbers in BIG RED FONT back in post #2653 on 10/15/13 might have been a clue that the AMA IS GROWING.
Then maby not as now after hundreds of pages promoting youth as the future of the AMA we have..............................
possibly, knowing that 10,400 of the increase was due to new FREE YOUTH memberships. as in they got no skin in the game, and probably do not even know uncle bob signed them up, has a little to do with it.
YOUTH IS THE FUTURE OF THE Iphone
THE SERVICING COST OF A YOUTH MEMBER IS more than they contribute.
THE SERVICING COST OF A YOUTH MEMBER IS more than they contribute.
10-30-2013 | 03:05 PM
#2746
Jumped in earlier?????????????? Of course the fact that I posted those numbers in BIG RED FONT back in post #2653 on 10/15/13 might have been a clue that the AMA IS GROWING.
Then maby not as now after hundreds of pages promoting youth as the future of the AMA we have..............................
and then there are those that state:
Way to go mongo and LCS!
Then maby not as now after hundreds of pages promoting youth as the future of the AMA we have..............................
and then there are those that state:
Way to go mongo and LCS!
10-30-2013 | 03:40 PM
#2748
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From: Aguanga,
CA
According to AMA Education Director Bill Pritchett in his Nov '13 AMA News column, youth membership has grown from 11,000 (Jun 2010) to to 45,000 at last count. So yes, membership is growing and it's great that it is mainly in the youth sector. OTOH, if Open membership has only stayed steady through replacement keeping up with attrition since 2010, current ('13) membership would be abt 174,000. Wanna bet the tally will approach that figure?
10-30-2013 | 03:43 PM
#2749
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From: Apopka,
FL
I know there is a obesity problem in the U.S. ...... but I have never met a artificially inflated youth.....................
10-30-2013 | 06:23 PM
#2750
Senior Member
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Do I have any ideas or am I just going to sit here and say "woe is me, my beloved hobby and the AMA is shrinking and there's nothing we can do". Remember what the thread is about, why is the AMA not growing. Here are a few ideas.
- For any AMA club to retain it's charter it must sponsor a defined number of annual events. T
- Events like a Fun Fly, a mall show, a swap meet, a contest, something to grow interest and advertised locally.
- The club must conduct one or more educational out reach events. It could be demonstrations for schools, scouting, churches or public libraries.
- To be president of a club, you need to submit a plan for annual events.
- Retention as president by the club members will be determined by the execution of these events and their quality.
- The AMA could discount annual dues for any member soliciting new membership. Bring in a new member, take $10 off.
- Finally, a TV advertisement with a more recognizable spokesman.
Bill
