As I posted, I believe there is an opportunity to grow the AMA with the e-flyers. E-flyers may well be a way to grow the AMA more rapidly than the historical rate of 3%. On the other hand, I believe they should have little impact on the “traditional” AMA growth pattern. Something else has caused that. Previous dues increases have not done this kind of damage and there is no reason to believe the latest dues increase was to blame for the decline. Modeling is an area, that in other recessions, prospered, since it required less monetary outlay than many other activities it might compete against.

This is how I view the current situation. There are two ways that people enter the “park flyer” realm. I acknowledge that there are exceptions to every rule.

1. They spend a fairly small amount of money, generally well under $200 for the first park flyer, or receive it as a gift. Many will wind up in the trash, some will go on and learn to fly. Those that learn to fly continue on up the learning/spending curve and become accomplished e-flyers. The great majority of these pilots would not have entered the “traditional” world of RC on the basis of the initial monetary output alone.

2. A “traditional” IC flyer decides to see what electric is all about. He goes ahead and spends what is necessary. He is already an AMA member and, likely, a club member. He has a couple of IC planes and is not likely to drop out of the AMA or club… at least not right away. He has an investment in IC, both monetarily and emotionally. He is the guy most of us see at the club field. His car carries a foamy or two, and traditional RC aircraft or two.

In the case of flyer 1, the AMA has not lost him. It is impossible to lose something you never had. He is there and he represents an opportunity. In the case of flyer 2, he maintains his membership(s) and the AMA does not lose him. Certainly there are exceptions. I do not believe there are 15,000 exceptions.

Here is a what if...

We know the size of the AMA, but we do not know the size of the market being served by the RC industry....let's say that is 500,000 people total.

That means 170K in the AMA and 330K ouside of it (roughly 2 to one).

So the 10% reduction in the AMA is only a 5% increase in the other market...that is not much, and from the looks of it, that market is EXPLODING, much higher than 5% per year rates.

Although I cannot prove it, I really believe a lot of people are dropping from IC, or are getting very deep in the hobby (spending thousands a year) and never buy any IC at all.

Matt,
Your last observations is exactly the impression I have been getting from several different places. That makes the AMA ignoring the e flyer a critical missed opportunity. I am on several different e flight lists and forums and silently watch to learn what the heck is going on. One of the big things I have learned (the hard way) is that in most of those places he who talks about AMA is viewed as someone who is trying to bring the hog to the front row of the church.

Dr. H. Sanford Frank, District VII AMA VP used to make comments to the effect that flying was a social event. I used to agree because the flying friends get more of my time and concern than anything outside family and work. However, now I am now wondering if it is the same for everyone as the Dr. implies. I am beginning to suspect that e flyers don't fit that mold very well, and that may be one of the reasons that there is observable movement toward light electrics. That class of flight does not need a formal flying field and all the added onerous things that comes with it. I have seen lone e flyers all over the place, but wet birds seem to be strictly regulated by almost everyone.

We see some of that right here where folks rail on and on against clubs and the AMA. We constantly see where someone has gone to a club and was not welcomed in a way they expected. These are some of the people who probably wind up supporting e flight growth.

I am beginning to wonder. I am sure some folks in their attempt to manage people made some serious errors at clubs and we are beginning to see the back lash created by the AMA moving into the wrong corner and becoming a tool those managers used to beat folks up. It did not used to be that way and the biggest reason is that until e fligh blossomed, those who felt like targets kept their mouths shut as the solution. Somehow we (AMA) need to become what we used to be. An organization to promote the hobby rather than an organization to promote the organization.

Gee Dad, what did this start? LOL

What I do know, is we (RCU'ers) are a powerful voice. We need to use it. We almost got the other Dave elected as AMA prez. We should win next time.

I hope someone has clued their District VP onto this thread, I have. With the passion of many of these post, we owe it to the hobby to do what we can to help with a solution.

What is AMA doing to encourage the public to get into the hobby? Ohhh, the Grand Event. Only way to know about that is to read MA and/or live near Ontario, CA. Who reads MA? AMA members. Some of their beginner articals are a joke, because chances are, the person reading the artical already knows the info or found it out at the flying field or here on RCU 3 months ago. They have done the beginner issue, however it was not published for public release. It would have been great to see it on a magizine rack someplace.

AMA needs to educate and inform clubs and flying fields of what should be done with the park flyer people who come out. At many places, these people are run off for one reason or another. I have seen it and I have also run out to the parking lot to retrieve these people. I know AMA can not doing anything about ones personality, but AMA and the clubs owe it to themselves to look for new people. These people with the $100 Firebird are the future.

With several other orginizations, IMAA, IMAC,SCCA, THRC and ROAR you are able to join right then and there. Granted, these were for events or races, but if you were not a memeber, you could join then. AMA may need to look into some type of program allowing people to join at the flying site via a phone call to an automated system. I know I don't wanna have to collect money and send it off.

It all goes back to getting more people in the hobby. IMO, AMA has not done much.



I am an Intro Pilot. In 2004 I taught 37 people how to fly R/C planes. Of that 37, 22 of them I personally got them into airplanes. They were already into R/C cars. I would fly my 3D foamy planes in between the races and got them interesed in planes. I put togther what I called "Fly Days" and invited them out to fly my sons NexStar. Most all of them now own planes and I required they join AMA even though we were flying at an Outlaw field. And once again, for 2005 I did not have to pay for membership due to the amount of referrals I sent in.

Actually, they got us the channels because the cell phone industry was trying to snatch it all up. Making the radio companies build better equipment has done nothing but make the radio more reliable, so that most times when a plane goes down, it's NOT from radio interference. Only because the AMA and all it's members went to the FCC did we protect our planes from splattering on the average phone call... And the 1991 rules didn't make older radios obsolete, but upgrades were needed. There's still a ton of those radios out there, and they all work better now as a result.

Yes, the insurance is cool, but I've never used it, and hope I never need it. I DO like the magazine, and while I don't like the fee growing every year, it's the cheapest insurance I've ever heard of. Would I still join if I didn't have to? You bet. It's the organisation behind it all, that lets me know what's going on, and it gives a basic set of rules that keeps most people happy and healthy.

phil in georgetown

The dynamic has changed, no doubt about it. Before the electric revolution, if someone wanted to get into rc flying, they had to buy a IC plane and all that goes with it, and they usually had to fly at an AMA sanctioned field. They were "forced" to join AMA.
All that has changed, but the "good old boys" in Muncie have not changed their thinking. As so may of you have stated, if someone buys an electric, they feel no need to join the AMA, they cannot justify spending $58.00 a year for something they see no benefit from. Also, a large number of heli fliers have written off the AMA because they are off flying at a non-sanctioned field, and they, too, see no benefit to joining an organization that they perceive to be a bunch of old fixed-wing farts.

Unless Dave Brown and the rest ofthe EC get their poop in a group, we will continue to see the AMA membership do a steady decline.

Before people start jumping the gun, let's sit back and look at the situation. I, for one, never said that the RC flyer didn't need the AMA. I thank the AMA for getting channels secured for me to fly on. I thank them for giving scholarships to students. There are a few things I can think of right off the top of my head that the AMA does for people/modelers. The problem I'm seeing, along with others, is that the AMA has become a "monster". It has gotten too big, and too powerful. It's become political, way too political. It's become a "money" organization. Yes, it has, it has become money hungry, and everyone knows it. Muncie didn't "need" that nice new building! They EC "wanted" it! I feel quite positive that the old facility suited things just fine. Muncie didn't "need" that nice new corparate flying site. The EC "wanted" it! How many of us flyers will acutually use the site, or evert get the oportunity to fly at it? Probably never! Sure, it's there for us if we ever want to use it, but everyone knows that they'll never get the chance, because of personal reasons. So, yes, the AMA is money hungry! Look at all of those dollars that were spent, our dollars, on something we will never use. I think it's pretty sickening!

The AMA has left a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths. If they would have kept things the way they were, it wouldn't be as bad right now, as what it is. They need to get back to promoting the hobby. Use the money to help struggling clubs. Use the money to put in "small" regional facilities, secure ones that the area politicians and higher-ups can't shut down/run off.
Use the money to privide "different types of insurance", for people with different needs. Get rid of that god-awful magazine. Use the money they spend on that for more "important" things. There's tons of things I can sit and think of that they could do to cut back at the corparate level and focus on us, the modelers.

If they don't watch out, someone will cut their throat. Someone can, and will, come out with a better organization. If they'll straighten up, and focus on the basics, things will get back to normal. If they'll do that, we won't be voicing our negative opinions about them, like we are.

John

The problem seems to so well defined by so many, but and it's a big but, does anyone have any ideas for a definitive solution?

Word has it that the EC of the AMA has something worthwhile in the works in the solution department. Stay tuned.

CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

I heard some where they were trying to buy an airport near Muncie

[8D]

QUOD EST DEMONSTRANDUM - Q . E. D .

I found this posting elsewhere. It proves that I am not THE ONLY ONE.

We are going to be LEGIONS........this is why !

QUOTE :
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I am going to sell my gas stuff and go electric. a couple different reasons. i think electric is easier without the fuel and the things that go along with fuel. but the main reason is the time and places to fly. i have belonged to a club locally. it is 30 min away from my house and it costs 75.00 to renew each year. i just dont have the time to get to the club with the kids and other commitments( a new baby this year too). it takes about 4 hours to go and get in maybe 5-6 flights. and that is if i dont stop and chat with the gang. its hard to not chat. and i can get to the field only 2 times a month. if i go electric i can drive to the park 5 min away and just fly. or maybe just throw the plane out the front door and fly for an hour a few times a week.

so here is my actual question. how big of a planes or how fast is too much for a "park flyer". i was looking at the 40" sportster they have at tower hobbies. i like the look of the balsa and covering. i also like that "clever boy" that is on this sites classified section. are those types of planes too much for parks in your opinion. i am also looking at not renewing my AMA membership if i dont join the local flying club. i just want to go and fly someplace quick and easy. thanks.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
find this original post in Park Flyers, " HOW BIG....etc "

You heard "WHO" was trying to buy an airport? I'd hope not the AMA! If they do, that's it! Enough is enough! While they're at it, why don't they just go ahead and buy the whole state of Indiana?

....if given a chance......they just might

Jerry

Climb down from the ceiling YD, that news is pretty stale. AMA did have an option of some sort on adjacent (to the Muncie AMA complex) Reese Airport, so it was in somebody's past plan for empire, but a/o the last EC meeting the decision was made to drop that option. See the minutes on the AMA site.

Abel

Help me a little bit here with logistics. The 72MHz frequencies were first gotten in about 1967. The 6 original channels were expanded to 50 in around 1980. I remember seeing my first cell phone around 1990. Actually, I have had one since 1992.
Help clairify the time table.

Thanks,

Pagers!!!

<grumble, grumble, grumble> And there are those that complain when I cut and paste instead of posting a link <shaking head>
*******
This reply posted by Fred Marks, link supplied earlier in this thread

Barret. This is your voice speaking! Your voice is the AMA Frequency Committee. The committee is made up of very active modelers. Some of us are getting a little long in the tooth, having represented you very ably for over 25 years. Bob Underwood commended us as "the only standing committee of the AMA" at our meeting in 2003 at Toledo. I enjoyed the chuckle when I commented that "it was barely standing." At 70 , I am younger than several on the committee. When I joined the committee in 1978, Jack Albrecht, Walt Good, Bob Aberle, Dick Jansen, John Strong, Ed Lorentz, and one or two others were in the traces looking for "young blood" to help come up with new frequencies for modelers. That committee had moved the RC world from being limited to those who had ham licenses to the availablity of six license free frequencies at 26-27 MHz, to the addition of 7 new frequencies at 72 and 76 MHz.

Bob Aberle chaired the committee from about 1980 to 1982. My assignnment in 1981 was to assemble a presentation to the seven FCC Commissioners of our petition for 80 new frequencies at 72-73 and 75 MHz. That was done in Dec 1981 and Jan 1982. Walt Good, Bob Underwood and I made the trip to FCC and I made the presentation. The FCC voted unanimously without further technical question to assign the 80 frequencies exclusively to model use. From time to time, you will hear misguided claims that we share those frequencies. That is hogwash, they are exclusive for our use. The misinterpretation is that we are a secondary user. That means we must not interfere with other users of adjacent frequencies. There has never been one report or complaint of RC equipment interfering with any other service.
`
In 1982 George Myer became chairman and in 1983, I was directed to assume that position where I served until 1986. Since that time, Bob Underwood as AMA Technical Director and, later, in a consulting role, has acted as de facto chairman. During 1982 to 1986, some major issues were tackled and solved in outstanding fashion by the committee. First, the phase in plan that kept us out of trouble as new equipments were developed was put in place. Jack Albrecht authored that outstanding plan that we stuck with through 1991 to its logical completion. Part of that is the frequency flag/pin system in use at most RC flying fields.

Members of the RC Industry made no contribution except for Jack Albrecht but were most emphatic that the AMA provide guidelines for the development and introduction of equipment that would let operation proceed safely in this new, narrowband environment. My son Tim and I develped what we caled "generic FM receivers" and demonstrated to the members of the AMA Executive Council what it would take to operate your models on a flight line within 10 or so feet of each other in an environment that included multiple users 20 KHz removed and in massive combinations up to 50 (at 72 MHz) of third order intermodulation. I drafted the Guidelines with much assistance from the technically oriented members of the committee. Those Guidelines have appeared in the AMA Handbook over the years, updated and edited by an absolutely excellent technical editor, Warren Plohr. In addition to Warren and Jack, Bill Hershberger, the quiet genius, and George Steiner the noted writer for RCM played major roles. The Guidelines were issued in 1986 to the industry. Industry struggled with those requirements for a few years and the phase in plan and grandfathering old equipment until 1991 delayed full utilization of the band for RC airplanes. In order to ensure safety, the committee initiated the "Stickering Program" whereby some 25 organizations were certified to be able to measure the spectrum of your transmitter and classify it as narrow band or broad band. You have to have narrow band equipment to operate with 20 KHz separations. The issue of receiver performance is a little more complex, so it is suggested that you open www.fmadirect.com Support/Technical papers and read about receiver performance.

The AMA faced one mighty challenge to our spectrum some ten years ago when a minor functionary at FCC got into a little game he called "refarming the frequencies" that was patently aimed at looting spectrum for his associates in the wireless world. His nefarious plan would have placed some strong radiators within 5KHz of our frequencies. Once more, the committee went to work tooth and nail. It would be much easier now with the Internet, but we opened up a massive letter writing campaign to the Congress and to the FCC. That effort brought "refarming" to a screeching halt! Once again, our frequencies were safeguarded by AMA with the help of conscientious AMA members.

The committee meets regularly, always at Toledo and occasionally at other times to consider items that might affect our use of the spectrum we enjoy as a privilege. About two years ago, the issue of BPL began to arise. The committee with assistance of AMA legal council and a loose liason with the ARRL reviewed and commented very strongly against allowance of BPL.

There are a few things very direct and not too difficult to understand about BPL. Your committee has gleaned these understandings and I simply state them, not as committee pronouncements, but rather as what I believe I have heard and read. However, these are almost absolutes.

1. BPL is a money maker for the wireless industry, nothing more and nothing less. There are a few who stand to make huge amounts of money. They also make huge campaign contributions and have heavy lobbying budgets.
2. Those people do not care in the slightest that they might interfere with other users, including public safety services.
3. The present FCC chairman is in the pocket of this group. He and his boss in the White House are the big cheer leaders for BPL, touting it as a way to bring the Internet to rural America. So who needs 100 more spam messages per day?
4. The power companies are willing pawns in the fight, seeing just one more source of revenue from the power lines that have free rights of way across your property.
5. The power companies already use such transmission schemes to communicate with sub stations and the like and readily admit that they have huge problems with the scheme.
6. About BPL:
a. Transmission is made over local feeder and distribution lines. High lines are not used. Why? No money to be made transmitting from one substation to another. It has to come in to your neighborhood.
b. Why not use BPL to interlink all power networks to provide automatic sensing and control so we can avoid massive blackouts and fight terrorism? Uh uh; no money in that. These folks want that $30, $40; $50 and going from each family. Lets see now, 400 million Americans in about 100 million families @ $40/month/family=you get the picture? Yes, our piddling billion per year worldwide RC industry is like a voice in the wilderness. I suspect that one Commo business has more lobbying budget for BPL than the yearly budget in toto for AMA.
c. What is bad about BPL? All other communications equipment has to comply with FCC Regs as spelled out in the Federal Code of Regulations (FCR) Part 15. Let me assure you, just about all but the real cheapy RC systems perform well in the Part 15 environment.
d. At present, BPL is being demonstrated in a number of locations on local distribution lines. The range of spectrum being used is 29 to 36 MHz or about that. Nothing is being run at 72 Mhz. However, BPL is allowed to operate at up to 80 Mhz. It is our assessment that receivers such as our FMA FS5 and FS8 will likely not be bothered by BPL, so watch all claims of other solutions to BPL with a jaundiced eye. Tests being run by Dan Williams using the FS 8 show no interference with BPL nerby and operating at 33 tp 36 Mhz. However, plans are in work to repeat the tsts with that equipment set up to be at 36 MHz where BPL is operating. This step is even more important for our modeling friends in Europe that fly on 27 MHz, 35 Mhz, 36 MHz, and 40 Mhz.
e. The worst part of BPL is that the wires serve as the antenna. Other Part 15 users have to have very specific antenna characteristics while BPL is a real piece of guess work. We have only seen one set of purported radiation pattern and that came from AT&T.
f. In Europe, the EC has issued grants of over $25 million Euros to examine the effects of BPL. The Bush administration has spend zero, zilch, nada and couldn’t care less. They are looking after us just like they did the flu vaccine!
g. The second tough technical issue is that we have been unable to get FCC or the BPL community to define a baseband modulation that could tell us what to design against.


7. What is the AMA doing?
a. First, it has been clear all along that the Bush administration and Powell of the FCC are going to let BPL go ahead, no matter that AMA, ARRL, and numerous other users of the spectrum have lodged strong protests. That is there in this weeks approval of the NPRM despite all protests.
b. We have few alternatives:
i. I have been requested by the committee to become involved in the IEEE Standards Association to help write standards for BPL that might possibly help us to exercise some control. I attended a meeting in June and another in July at which I succeeded in getting the category “Compatibility With Other Wireless Communications” (that’s us) in the outline for the standard. I wrote a synoptic outline that was presented in a meeting last week. The next working session is scheduled for Jan 2005. This thing moves so slowly that we may have a standard by 2010! This all takes infinite patience and is a lot of work.
ii. Bill Hershberger keeps tabs of regulatory matters and legislation that may have some effect.
iii. Bob Underwood and our AMA attorney have just about exhausted our options for protest through normal government channels.
iv. We simply haven’t the money to hire powerful lobbyists to go after congress to have them force the FCC to take a different track.
v. We can all vote in Nov. for a change of administration that gets Powell out of the FCC and someone the who listens to us as the chairman, Dan Cuelo, did in 1982. Let’s see, the last election was decided by a lot less votes than AMA membership, so let’s show them what happens when you cross a bunch of modelers!
vi. The committee may meet before Toledo to review and examine other action. Right now, it may be best to see if there is going to be a change to an administration more friendly to the needs and rights of our people than to big business.
vii. The fall back, if Bush/Powell continue in office, is to gear up for a head on protest through mail, and Internet to Congress and the FCC.

Barret, I guess that tells you we are doing all that reasonable people can do. If you have suggestions, we are open to them, shy of rioting and shooting people! If willing, I have an assignment for you! We need to draw every national association in with us and ARRL to attack this thing. I could use some help with that chore that has not been forthcoming from AMA HQ or our attorney. The strongest pitch I have made, in June, was in response to the “big money” gang that “all they needed were safety standards to protect people installing the BPL on power lines”. My little speech concluded with: “You are concerned with safety. Where does safety begin and end? Yes, the 50 lb P51 Mustang I watched fly at the local field yesterday would be very dangerous if BPL interfered. But, even worse, let us assume that you and your family are driving on a highway, involved in a serious accident, and EMS does not reach you because BPL interfered with emergency communications. You and al your family die as a result. That was enough to get that section added to the IEEE Standard. You may rest assured that it will take everything we can muster to keep that in the standard. We have to have some more associations involved in order to avoid being outnumbered 28 to2 (The chap from ARRL and me)

As usual, the RCMA was happy to hold our coat while we conducted the defense. No help, no input, just wait for AMA to solve the problem so the RCMA members can go on taking $ from here to Asia. I am just telling it like it is. Buy American!

There have been quite a few AMA members who have been active members of the Freq Committee over these 26 years that I have been involved. I want to express my personal appreciation to them for their many contributions: Bob Aberle, Bob Novak, Pete Waters, Jack lemon, George Steiner, George Myer, the late Chuck Ahearn who solved the issue of resolution bandwidth for transmitter calibration, Jim Oddino, Warren Plohr, Bill Hersberger, Jack Albrecht, Walt Good (first and foremost), John Strong, Torrey Williams, Dick Jansen, and most recently, Dan Williams and Tony Stillman. The support of Dave Mathewson in recent years is greatly appreciated. The support and attendance of my son Tim is a real blessing. Without these fine folks, you would not have the marvel of RC as we now know it.

Holy Moly J R !!!

You just scared me !!!

I'll pray for St. Fred Marks !!

What else ??

J_R

Thanks for posting Fred's remarks. I have copied them and will send them to the nay sayers when appropriate.

Secondly, I always snip out the parts of an email to which I am not replying. However, I always leave the things that are pertinate to the subject. If you leave all the garbage in, the reader may forget your point.

Also, why waste the bandwidth with copies,copies.

Thanks again and happy snipping,

Thought some of you out there might be interested in the response I received from the AMA concerning the original posting by YNOT on this matter.

Hi Steve, Ed,
Steve, thanks for forwarding Ed's email.

I, too, agree. In fact, this email should be read at the SPM coming up in February. I remember a couple years ago when the Horizon Firebird first came out. We all thought it was a toy. Our local hobby shop order a bunch in and filled an end cap with them- maybe a couple/three dozen. I picked the shop owner up to head to Toledo on a Thursday afternoon and the shelf was full. Sunday afternoon when I dropped him off the shelf was empty. That was an eye opener. I bought one (actually from the shop across the way in Muncie) and found that they actually flew, not well, but they flew.
The first thoughts that came to mind were, "How many of those that spend $100 or so to buy this type of model will spend an additional $58 to join AMA. How many will actually even see a need to join?" Out of this came the committee that I chaired that created the Introductory Membership Program that Tom Schwyn put so much effort into. The concept was that we needed a way to reach out to these new modelers (that's exactly what they are) and introduce them to the more "traditional" form of model aviation and all its diversities. I'd like to see us put more effort into promoting this program.
From everything I'm hearing, Ed's right. There are hundreds of thousands of these types of models being flown. We need to create something in our organization that the people who are buying these models will perceive as a benefit and value to them, and give them reason to join. We also need to realize that not all will have an interest in joining. Here, I think we still have an obligation to at least try to make this group aware of some issues like safety and interference concerns and at least make them aware of AMA and our system of structured clubs.
This topic should be at or near the top of our list when we sit down to create a plan for the future.
Dave


Dave Mathewson
AMA Vice President, District 2
7271 State Fair Blvd.
Baldwinsville, NY 13027
315.727.4275
315.635.1039 (Fax)
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kaluf [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:38 AM
To: Ed Dupaquier
Cc: Don Koranda; Dave Brown; Dave Mathewson; jay; Jack Frost; Tom Schwyn
Subject: RE: New R/C Flyers-Non Members


Ed, I simply could not agree more! I have forwarded your comments to those that may be able to take action on this very important topic.

Steve Kaluf
Technical Director



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ed Dupaquier [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 9:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New R/C Flyers-Non Members


Steve,
My AMA is 20236 so I have been in the loop for some time, also I am a hobby shop owner for 27 years in the Houston, Texas area and a great supporter of AMA.
The AMA continues to complain about not appealing to the new younger members and continues to try outdated methods to cultivate these younger folks, both male and female. Let's face it, having a model building clinic during the Nats or at Muncie is not going to attract new members. So what's stopping the growth? Try this as a MAJOR problem. The staunchy old AMA members that run families off the flying fields when they show up with one of the new "hobby type" radio control planes sold by companies like Great Planes and Horizon Hobbies, or Wallgreens, or Sam's, or Sharper Image, you get the point.
We try to tell the new R/C flyer about how they no longer have to spend $400 to $500 to be in the hobby, about how the R/C community is a great place for families and youngsters to bond around a common interest, only to have the great disappointment of rudely being asked to leave the field because the don't have an "AMA License". Remember that term "license"? We no longer use that word in the store and tell the customer that is buying a full function trainer that they should join the AMA for the insurance, not because they need a license.
It is incumberent upon the AMA to educate its members that we DO NOT need a license to fly these models.
Per the letter of the law, what about the R/C car groups that run cars at a flying field. One club here in Houston actually has an R/C car track at their field and host events, are they in violation of the AMA guidelines by not insisting that these folks be members of AMA?
Steve, it's really tough to grow the hobby when so many of these old hats are still running things at the local level quoteing antiquated outdated rules that are still on the books at AMA.
We strongly suggest that the new full function R/C flyer join AMA, but he has just spent $400 buying a model and wants to fly. For those situations we put them on a buddy box and fly them until their AMA is processed.
But again, what about the new guys with the $120 to $190 radio control electric aircraft they got for Christmas, and believe me they are being sold by the thousands around the country, are we suppose to run them off or groom them as the future of the AMA. My choice would be to groom them for the hobby, but we can't do that by insisting that they spend almost $50 to join the AMA just to fly a $120 airplane. But I do believe that if treated right most of these folks will want to stay in the hobby, buy a .40 trainer and join AMA. But if we continue to treat them like they don't belong we can not expect them to want to continue in a hobby that does not welcome them with open arms!
So where do these folks fit into the AMA, are they outcast or are they the future? The AMA needs to find a place for them in our organization. Maybe a trial membership, maybe a no magazine membership, maybe anything to not run the folks off for good. Give it some thought, a lot of future menbers are being put at risk of never joining the AMA.
Currently the AMA has a greater pool of future members as in any time in its history, let's not let them get away because we can't or won't move past "the way it has always been done". Times change and so must the AMA!
Thanks for your time,
Ed Dupaquier
AMA 20236
Trains & Planes Toys & Hobbies
Houston, Texas

I've been a member since 1968, and have to agree with every one of the posts I've read here.

Bottom line is that the most important thing is the Insurance, Even if it is secondary to your homeowners.

In the years I've flown RC, I've been lucky and only had some close calls, and never had to use the insurance. But I have heard of incidents where if the insurance wasn't in place, it would have ruined peoples lives. No matter how careful a group may be, this is a hobby with danger involved. Making protection important. The plane that went through the chainlink fence and killed someone in Arizona a few years ago is a good case in point. The club had every thing in place to insure safety and still it was not enough. Without the insurance, in todays legal climate, it would have caused a lot of trouble for everyone there at the time.

I'm wondering what will happen in the local park, when Junior launches his 99 dollar plane and hurts or even kills someone. Who is going to assist when this happens. And the idea that a 99 dollar plane is not as dangerous as a 1000 dollar plane is ludicrous.

I think that under supervision by qualified persons at a club, and for a limited period of time, Junior should be encouraged to fly at the local club field. This will protect us all in the long run. I for one am always willing to help new people when they appear. But I also feel that after a couple of visits, the guest is pushing his limits and should be asked to join or go elsewhere.

I know of a gentleman who came to a club field as a guest, was taught to fly, became very proficient, and still after a year became incensed when told he had to joint the Club and get the AMA license. This is a club that depends on the dues to pay a lease on the field to enable having a place to fly.

Just my opinion.

after reading all of the above posts, I did not see any one post that refered to the Distric VP, with questions or help. thats what they are there for, to help with the local district questions and get official info/data from headquarters. they are the ones who make the changes at the board meetings, "on the advise to the legal beagles" in Muncie. if they don't help, GET RID of them at next election. put the pressure on them, so everyone gets the same info. dick

Read 'em all? Review post 12

Thanks altacom
I am glad to see that I am not the only one that thinks that AMA is MOSTLY about Insurance.
Read the post on the AMA topic "Don't you wish you could just fly" I think you will find many friends among the group.
tpes

I'm not sure that I agree with that one. I'll take the $99 plane over the $1000 plane being hurled at me any day!!!!!

hello everyone .. i see there a lot of unhappy flyer out there .. and yes it the AMA .. please undestand i have a card(AMA) .. to fly my toy plane ..on a AMA field ...In my traveler i,v come a cross a number of fields .out there that ARE NOT AMA ..they do not want anying thing to do with AMA .. there just a out there to fly .. but keep in mine they do have rule.. just like a AMA filed.. safety is first .. so keep in mine if they can do it ..with out AMA .. anying bubby can do .. this is the USA.. the club am with here NC is not AMA .. we pay for our own insurance.. which is high .. but it can be done..
i wish everyone out the best of luck .. and keep on flying thats the only way to live ..
carlos 01-18-05