If a club doesn't keep at least a couple of trainer planes on hand it's really tough to pull new people into the hobby. My club, which Thomas B is also in, uses trainers that the club members own. Several of the instructors have kept their own trainers or picked up used ones pretty cheaply. I believe one was actually built and donated by a local hobby shop a few years ago and owned by the club, and I learned on it. I'm not sure if it's still flying though. I worked with every instructor the club had at some point during my learning, and I flew basic high wing trainers, a Goldberg Tiger II, a .40 size Cub, and my own Cessna 182 as a student. Opjose definitely has the sweetest club instructor fleet I've ever seen, but it need not be as fancy as that to be able to teach newbies who don't have any equipment yet. Any trainer or docile sport plane will do provided that there is a buddy box available for the instructor's radio.
The club has the attitude that anyone who shows up on training night gets to fly as long as there is a an instructor and a plane for them to fly with. It's club policy that no one pays for training, not even for fuel. There have been a few that were regulars at training who had no intention of ever getting their own equipment and doing the hobby themselves (mostly kids whose parents wanted the free entertainment for them),but most don't dedicate the time beyond the first try if they aren't serious. But the way the instructors look at it, even those who aren't serious are getting to see what the hobby is all about, so they are being educated that it exists and is enjoyable. You never know how many will return to it a few years later when their finances or schedules allow them to. Having an organized and free training time is the main thing a club can do to promote the hobby. Otherwise all of our growth just comes via established modelers having children who get into it with them.

Another great model that we recommend is the all inclusive Super Cub by Hobbyzone... Very nice flying electric that doesn't cost a fortune and is very user friendly. We buddy box most initially but many are able to learn without any buddy boxing at all... Most of the Super Cubs survive and are handed down. Some of the Super Cub pilots eventually join our club but most carry on to fly on privately owned property and show up from time to time just to hang out and show us their new planes and skills. The Super Cub package has been one of the greatest advents for promoting the hobby I've seen.

I was about to post what Jester posted....

I think we have reaped a few new Fort Worth Thunderbirds members from the club supplied instruction program, but even if someone does not take the full plunge into the hobby, it certainly makes them approve of R/C modeling and some good will out in the public is never a bad thing.

Instead of just hosting a NATs in Muncie every year, why doesnt AMA host regional events every year, where they go to say a club in Oregon this year and hold a competition, and have PR folks contact the local media where say the local channel 7 weather guy broadcasts live from the flying field helping to draw spectators to the event. The local channels thrive on promoting local events and it costs nothing for the clubs or AMA for it. Then next year its in Idaho, or Washington, and do the same for all the region/districts. I am an AMA life member, and I can say I have never even seen our districts reps... ever. It should be their jobs to bring light to the clubs that exist, and to promote and help others. To me everymonth, the district rep talks about some smuckity-smuckity what ever at a location 500 miles away, yet its in his back yard. Our club's events, even the sanctioned ones, never even get looked at for coverage. So because we are treated like red- headed ugly stepchildren, most folks dont care about AMA outside of the insurance.

I dont fly at Muncie, couldn't care if the Muncie flying field exists or not. If the AMA wants growth, it has to start at the grass roots local levels.

My .02

AMA HQ and EC are generally against regional events because they compete with the Muncie flying field for event draw and so might reduce the revenue take they need to pay for it. There are exceptions on the EC, one being the DX VP that is trying get a District flying site designated. He proposed that to the EC, and anticipating resistance also proposed that it would be self-funded within the district. Response was that AMA would support it by banking donations sent to HQ for that purpose by DX members for some period, IIRC it was 5 years, and then evaluate whether there was enough $$ for the project. I wouldn't send a dime to AMA HQ in reply to this scheme, and I'm sure they knew few others would either, so the net effect of their "support' was to effectively shut up DX and table the issue for another 5 years.

I don't give a hoot about going to Muncie either, and I'm with you on wanting a regional site in my district, but the probability of that happening differs from zip, zero, squat by a number small enough to be ignored.

cj

Quite a pair here. BW5493, you are a very active modeler. Do you get out and stir up events, attend area events and such? CJ you have been around a long time, I think. However nothing much on your RCU records.

In any case if any of you are out there helping with local events, CDing Events, belonging to 2 or more clubs, working with your DVPs, then I suspect your notions about area AMA spsonsored events just might be a bit different. Have you ever attended as a worker, a competitor, or helper at any NATS?

The logistics of hosting a NATs are way beyond some Club's weekend show. I have participated in NATs way back and then it was some kind of a job. When the Navy dropped hosting the NATs back in 1972, and AMA started having to do the big job, well it was a whole new Ball-Game. In the '70s AMA went around the country getting clubs to assist. Just like today, a 100 member club has a difficult time getting 10 members on deck to host a local event, just one or two days. I work 1 to 4 local events each year, but not the NATs.

I take credit for saving the 72 NATS and worked as Manpower Director and Assistent CL Director at the Oshkosh 73 Nats. I attended others when I was a DVP. I have been to Muncie a number of times but not as a NATs worker or contestant. However I have a strong respect for those that worked their bumpkins off when the NATS were pulled around the States, and now the current Category and Event Directors. Their service paid for only by the love of their events is something to behold.
Rather off topic, any modeler that truly loves model aviation should darn well make a trip to Muncie just for spending several days in the Museum.

When I hear folks complaining about AMA not bringing the NATs to THEM, then I know someone is not well versed on what a NATs is or for that item, just how much some folks work 18-20 hours a day just so there will be an event. BTW Rumbly, AMA is NOT against local events. There is a LOOONNNGG standing rule about any other large event during the NATS time. That is really good for all since the competition people mostly go to the NATs. That means the local guys could miss out on getting adequate contestants because they are in Muncie. [&o] If you wish to change the rule, then get a bunch of folks together and submit a grievance. Get something started. You may become a star. Also rumley, your D-X DVP is now learning what it is all about working in the AMA. It ain't easy no matter who or what your are.

The NATS and a number of other events that Muncie allows during the summer is a great thing for the SPORT of model aviation. Get involved. Go to a NATs. See what ALL the various folks that fly model airplanes do, many differences, yet it is all model aviation.

Don't know how you read into what I wrote that I was knocking the NATS or that it is held in Muncie, Hoss. Actually, I think the NATS would benefit from contests at regional venues that would qualify who rates having the opportunity to compete for recognition as the best of the best at the national level. Certainly the opportunity for exposing spectators to the sport aspect of our hobby would be manifold greater if eliminations for the NATS were held at multiple locations around the country. I don't compete with model airplanes, get enough of that from sailing. I can travel to any (continental) location in my dist in a day of driving, and that would be acceptable for a day or two outing to see the competitions. Cost and travel time to Muncie, and the likelihood of encountering crappy wx when one gets there, are more than I care to abide by for a similar experience - and I don't have to hold a job. For the younger guys that do, a week or so of discretionary time is even more precious, and so the trek to attend the NATS even less attractive.

cj


ps: I don't think the powers that be are afraid of regional sites competing with the NATs. It is that some of the other large events that are held in Muncie might move to other venues if such were allowed to exist.

i dont like the nats its for people with money and think the are above everyone

Hossfly,
I am very active in the hobby. I fly everything from Turbines to $12 SPAD DasPlasStick's we pylon race. From .25 size fun fly to 111cc 33% CAP 580. Hell I even own a Gentle Lady and a Radian Pro too. I'm also a Scale Masters static and flight Judge.
I think you missed my point, I don't care if the NATS is in Muncie or not, although changing every year would be better. The regional folks need to be way more active, and host more regional events, and not in their own back yards. They need to travel from one corner of their district to the other, hosting whatever they can to help to drum up business and make the AMA presence felt. Hell how tough is it to spotlight a fun fly held by the club in Blackfoot Idaho, or BFE where ever? They also need to change the venue every year, kind of like how the Olympics changes theirs. That way my club, or the Idaho Falls club gets the same coverage as say the Wenatchee Red Apple fliers in Washington does.

My case in point: Just by flying stupid SPAD plastic airplanes, and by driving up to 280 miles to other clubs, we now have 2 pylon, club 40 style races in Twin Falls, Idaho Falls, Ontario, Oregon, and here in Boise. We have gone from 2 guys yucking it up and chasing one another around the patch, to about 40 pilots across 2 states from Oregon to almost the Wyoming border in 3 years. How did we do it? We envited other clubs to visit, and also asked about joining them, then we just made it a weekend and went to visit. while we were there, we let folks fly our planes, and watched as we demo'd pylon racing. We keep it cheep, and dont allow many mods from the stock spadtothebone.net DPS. It makes everyone equal for the most part, and allows you to test your flying metal against some pretty good competition. When some of the folks started, they could hardly hit the pavement (400x40 asphalt runway) and now they are very competent pilots in short order. Racing causes you to focus, and practice, both of wich have the side benifit of making you better.

My point is that in order to grow anything, you have to nurture it. It's high time the AMA starts paying us back and supporting us in the field. Magazines are great, while your on the john, or drooling over that next winter time project, but at the rate we are dying off, or quiting the hobby, it's not sustainable.

I think your suggestion is 100% on track, I also have suggested something similar that being that the AMA should work with local clubs to try to establish a site in
each district thatwould be on the lines of the Muncie site as far as events and facitlies.

Long ago, when I was about ten or so, my parents or grand parents took me to the local airport. A model flying contest was going on, with the spectators separated from the control line circle by a chain link fence. Adjacent to the spectator area was a small parking lot reserved for the control tower personnel. A somewhat old Studebaker (had a split front window with a center post) was parked in the control tower lot.
A metal pan speed model was being flown tethered to a post, and the pilot had a a control handle. The metal mono-line snapped, and the model went through the metal cyclone fence, and hit the Studebaker's windshield center post. From the damage, it might have gone completely through a person. That was the last model airplane contest held at that airport.

Sounds very good in dream land. To cut to the chase, just WHO in this country is going to pay the bills for that moving around the country? Where are all the tools (trucks, tents, equipment of all sorts) going to be kept in good supply after each season? OH I suppose the equipment will be kept in the South in winter, and in the North during the other months. JUST Who will keep it all ready to party?

Well, Ol'Pards, I will bet anyone that it won't be any RC Modelers because they generally will not even cut grass on their club fields, yet they can P & M big time when it isn't cut. I have many good stories to that effect, but I bet you know them pretty well yourself.

For bw5493, your program is impressive. The problem is such programs are temporary. When I resigned as the AMA Dist. VI DVP I had a great District Team Competition Fun Fly going. Club teams to the State Event and State Teams to the big District Event. As soon as I was gone, well so went me, the banker. Never to be heard of again.

That Gentlemen is why your pie-in-the-sky day dreams are just that, DAY-Dreams. RCers P&M about everything that cost a penny other than the latest fad on the market which they just must have. OTOH I have seen in the mag MA that many folks are donating to AMA. The lists are in the magazine. Yet, whaaaat will happen when AMA asks for multi-millions to build some flying fields? How many of you have ever played with the real estate developments for, say just 100 acres, to build a facility. Phase 1, then Phase 2, then neighbor, and local restrictions and the shelling out of $$$$$ to get the licenses. Politicians don't do anything for nothing. Squeaky wheels have to be greased. Not every group of Club Officers can see beyond their noses and your dues monies are like certain other funds, they evaporate quickly.

Read this soon. Ken will accuse me of politicking, yet I hope it is simply educating. [8D] [:-]

Well you may be right about it being pie in the sky there big Hoss, but I think the AMA folks can afford to set up district supplies for events that the region VP's have access to. I think the AMA also can give a $300 a month per VP gas stipend from May to Oct to visit their flying sites within the district. They could write it off to flying site improvement, advertising etc, and be cheaper than what they do now I would think. Most of the officers are retired and have motor homes and trailers. They can travel quite readily, unlike many of the younger folks still working, and to attend a sanctioned fun-fly at the remote flying club really is no sweat off anyones brow. They choose not to however. It's a bit like the revolution, we pay taxation, and have no representation..at least none that shows up.

I know, I know $300 wont cover the cost of a $130,000 dollar diesel pusher to go 200 miles. But I think if they can afford that, they can afford the trip anyway. But if you want to be a regional VP...thats the role you have to play. The VP doesnt have to hit every field in the district every year, but should get out to each one every other year at the least. $300 per month, and you should at least see 6-7 fields in a year.

I dont believe for a minute that it cannot be done. Andrew Jesky comes all the way to little 'ol Boise and partakes in our pattern contest, cleans everyones clocks, and goes home. He doesnt need our pattern contest, but he does it to get out and drum up business for pattern, and gives a little back to the rc community that supports him, and he's a really nice guy too! He'll even trim your plane for you, normally a nominal fee, but he's done it for free. HE IS an ambassidor for the hobby, and it speaks volumes.

Our district reps should be an ambassidor for the hobby, but they serve only the local community they live in. Everything else is lip service and email.

Bryan

I dont think the AMA would be required to start building flying sites to do what I suggested, Thats why I said they should work with local clubs that would
already have sites.

It seems this thread may have come to the understanding that growing the hobby also grows AMA...

If so, I might suggest other clubs have a Model Aviation Day as well. We have been doing that here for a few years with good results. I see AMA is now promoting the idea as well.

I think those sort of events will garner more future model aviation enthusiasts than typical competition events such as the NATs or IMAC... Just my opinion but based on some very real world experiences. YMWV...depending on how your club handles such things...

its really something our club does not want to do anything for fun at our place>>> no swap meets>>> no shopping plaza model shows>> we have 50 members>> may be any day of the week you will find onld only 3 to 6 flyers>>> everyone seems happy about that i go fly 3 days a week>> 800ft blacktop runway flat groud on all 4 sides for a mile around>>most flyers are 60 to 81 yrs old me iam 81 but it is nice to fly there>>

I think your suggestion makes good sense, and movers in one of the local clubs I belong to are planning something to mark the day. Hosting CAP cadets, scout troops, and church youth groups along with opening up the field to several special interest events (combat, heli, multirotor, giant scale WWI warbirds, et al) are such frequent occasions that I'm sure it will come off in practice-makes-perfect style.

Not quite into seeing the drift in this thread mentioned in your 1st line, though. Maybe just what I happened to notice......clubs dropping training programs because too few trainees joined the club/AMA and such. A recent post by Thomas B in this thread shows that at least some have that understanding, and for me growing the hobby is sufficient purpose for providing instruction. I enjoy doing it, and never feel I've sacrificed anything on the frequent occasions when I get wrapped up in it to the extent that what I brought to fly never got out of my vehicle. My satisfaction in that endeavor is making model pilots. If they join the club, that's good. If they move on to fly in parks or the back 40, or go chasing skirts, that's all good too.

That's cool. I can respect the honesty. At least your club members aren't being hypocrites, claiming to care about promoting the hobby... But I know you are smart enough to understand the club is slowly dying and one day will cease to be even a memory...and that's OK too...kinda sad tho.

Your clubs perspective is much much better than the many clubs that claim to do "good" for the hobby and community all the while selfishly squatting on public property, hiding behind a bunch of BS reasons not to share, constantly looking for accolades for being the selfish and self serving club they really are...

LCS is painting with that very broad brush of his, again.

Easier to paint that way. No need to worry about details, accuracy and such.

Personally, I prefer to have guilt proven and innocence assumed and not go around casting charges that may or may not be true in a given case.

I don't agree that "many" clubs are as evil as he asserts. That much focused negative energy is simply not found in any but the smallest fraction of the clubs I have belonged to and visited. The members simply want to fly and have fun. I know that my club does focused good for the hobby and for the community on more than rare occasions and I have been exposed to many others that do so as well.

However, as my dad used to say, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even when they are wrong....

Thomas, you are correct sir. All very well said, but this forum has certain rules. You sir are not following the rules and soon you will be scolded in a tough kind of way about all the things the AMA does wrong. Our club has always grown to the point that new clubs have been formed form our club and we now have several sister clubs. This model aviation day four clubs are joining together to have the event. So you see your Father is correct about opinions!

Hey, I never said evil...You are twisting my words! I didn't wish to write a book...but if you want some specific answers just ask some specific questions. I be more than glad to give succinct and specific answers.

Oh BTW, if you ask questions be prepared to reciprocate likewise with specific answers to specific questions as well. Only fair and honorable...don't you agree?

Yet you judged me...

Wow. Must have hit a nerve. Three replys from LCS to my single post......

Just commenting on what you posted. Note that I did not cast aspersions on any group of people, unlike the way your words clearly imply that you think clubs have some hidden evil agenda.... The word evil might be a bit over the top, but really no more inflammatory than the terminology used in your original post.

I and lots of the regulars in here are well aware of some of the issues you and others have had at the site in Tyler. I have been there a few times and i have heard about them from various sources besides you. No need to go over them again in here, as they have every thing to do with the personalities involved and nothing to do with the AMA.

I don't think that a model club that supports and maintains a flying field on public land is "squatting" on the property. A significant number of them pay leases, as does my club and others that I am aware of.

Requiring AMA membership on these public sites is one of the keys to providing proof of individual financial responsibility that the public trustees in charge of this land require for this specific use of it. The AMA did not invent our litigious society, but we do have to live and fly in it and the AMA does more to make that possible across the US than any non affiliated group of fliers does, doing their own thing in anonynimity.

My club has a track record of supporting community events and educational outreach related RC activities both at our field and at schools. I don't want to write a book about it any more than you do.

We know you love to jerk certain chains in here, but I occasionally like to present an alternative viewpoint to yours. Don't you think all sides deserve equal time?

Girls generally do not / have not cared for model aviation...especially not enough to participate much
More and more boys are being raised to be like girls nowadays.
See a connection..?