The IMAA card in addition to HF magazine that features giants scale articles, advertising and IMAA event coverage allows you to fly in IMAA sanctioned events. IMAA is SIG, like SAM, IMAC, JPO, NASA, NFFS, VRCS - most if not all of these special interest groups under the AMA have a magazine or newsletter for those that are members.
Is membership to theses organizations required - no, is it desireable - those that are members apparantly think it is.

Red S.AMA 951
IMAA 18939, LSF 412, VRCS 951

Hello all,
I agree that a person be allowed to be and do as much or little as they want.
My disagreement with SIGs is that the entire membership of AMA has to pay in yearly dues for others to enjoy a limited area of flight enjoyment.
The sig makes no provision for an individual to try your part of the hobby without joining first, even though his part of the dues makes it possible for you to enjoy your part.
Maybe some changes in sig club rules could be made to let a person join in the events to see if this is his cup of tea.
When a regular club has a flying event , we state all AMA members welcome, they don't say sigs not allowed.
When a sig has a flying event they state up front that only sig members are allowed to participate, a person can not even pay extra registration fees to try out the event or organization(again ) to see if he likes it or not.

AS stated above it is a disagreement only not hate or dislike of any sig members.

Thanks, John

As far as I know, no AMA funds go to the support of SIGs. The only SIG that I know of that requires you to belong to that SIG to fly in their sanctioned events is the IMAA. I have fought against this restriction, but the IMAA members support the same regiem that imposes this restriction. As giant scale becomes common place, no longer unique as it was when the IMAA was formed, the IMAA continues to decline in membership . . . and they wonder why.

And for the record. ALL SIG members are also AMA members and pay dues BOTH to the AMA and the SIG.

The SIGs also provide the manpower when events are run at Muncie. SIGs also provide manpower to the various competition rules committees. I think you will find that there is not one single venue of AMA sanctioned competition events that does not have a SIG behind it.

Red S. AMA 951 IMAA 18939(until 3/03)LSF, VRCS

In my opinion AMA is a good organization. Yes the dues are going to go up from time to time. Are you not paying more for milk and servos than you where a couple of years ago. We are not all going to be happy with every decision made by them but the insurance coverage is worth the price alone.

I will remain neutral on this issue due to the fact I have only been in the hobby for just over two years now and have not yet actually read the coverage and service that the AMA provides. However one thing I do know and that is un-needy claims of injures that could have been covered under other provided insurance (if provided) would help in the increase of our premiums. I understand that the AMA has not increased their rates in quite sometime now, but does it stop here?

I was injured during my first year in the hobby at our field which required emergency medical attention at the ER in one of our local hospitals. The visit required X-ray, local anesthesia, stitches and medication. I optioned to use my work provided insurance rather then claim on my AMA coverage, thus in the event that it might add to the increase of coverage for all.

If I have a loss by way of theft I will again try and claim it on my home provided or other coverage depending on the situation and also if provided.

(Votes Neutral)

Randy

Blackie I am with you I have been Flying off and on since 1986
I have been an AMA member most of that time. I have never flown without coverage. I have had several minor incidences and one trip to emergency I turned it into my work coverage. I keep it in case of something catastrophic.

Usually magazines make there money from advertising not subscriptions. That also means the magazines may be serving the interests of the advertisers. I would imagine the cost of Model Aviation is not much if any of the dues and it might cost more for the option of not receiving the magazine. At least members can get one mag for "free" with some very good articles and possible helpful ads.
I wish the AMA could be more active in helping us get and keep flying fields. We just lost our field and I have no idea how long it will be before we can find a place again. I think we really need to be able to purchase land to fly but our club doesn't have that kind of money. Now I drive 47 miles one way to fly.

Sorry to here about your field. We have a couple of home owners who are complainers.

Ok...I spoke with my district VP to get some answers...there are a few specific numbers he is still going to get me but suffice it to say that if the magazine were an option it would save some money per member but with the advertising offset of costs it would not be a major difference. When they can make it an option to get it online one day in the future to save costs as well as some trees it will be worth it but for now it's not going to be like your saving 1/2 your dues.

Other questions I had asked and the answers did make sense as far as where the money is going and what it is used for. If anyone has specific questions or concerns do contact your district vp's and ask them...I'm sure they will be happy to help out. Some major questions about the insurance and claims history were answered and when the issues I raised were framed in the full context much of this makes alot more sense.

I'm sure the AMA isn't perfect but at least for now the big issues and questions I had have been asnwered and make much more sense now and show things are in fact not far off from where they should be. They are much closer (MUCH) to where they should be rather than being anywhere near where they shouldn't.

Thanks Marc

For looking In to that for us. I heard a rumor about a scale runway going In at Muncie Indiana, Have you heard that?


Doug

That is a new one for me...have not heard about it. Does anyone know for a fact if this is true or untrue? I can find out the next time I speak with my vp if not.

I think maybe I should start the AMAA. American Modelers Anonymous Association.

Hello RED,
I stand corrected, I used the word sigs to loosely, for that I apologize!! to you and the other sigs.

AMA is like a government, the bigger it gets the more it will tax the members. I like it as it stands today.

For those who were injured and paid with personal or company insurance that is what you would have had to do anyway. AMA insurance is secondary to any homeowners, personal or company insurance.

What worries me the most is the increase of "park fliers" and what effect that will have on our part of the hobby. These small planes are flown in back yards,streets and parks carelessly by people not trained in the proper methods and safety of flight operations.
Any damage to people or small children will have a large effect on us because of negative publicity.

Thanks, John

We need the AMA if we want to continue enjoying this hobby, and as you all know, no organization can please the entire membership, because there are always two sides of the coin. I have belonged to AMA for 61 consecutive years, and in my opinion it has only gotten better as time has progressed. It's not easy govering all types of models, like R/C, Free- flight, U-control. Electrics, Indoor rubber, or whatever. It's only natural for R/C'rs to complain when the AMA does something special for Free-flight, and vice versa. However, we are all in this together, (much like Republicans and Democrats - but all Americans), so it behooves us all to support AMA even though there are times when one doesn't agree with their final decisions, that are usually made to benefit the majority of modelers.

I joined the AMA in 1941, but I only have an old license dated 1945, so I can only take you back that far. That license cost five bucks ($5.00), and for that you did not get a magazine, but had insurance as follows:

1. $25.00 for each model lost in a building destroyed by lightning, fire, or explosion - excluding loss by self ignition.

2. $25.00 for each model destroyed in a vehicle accident, excluding bicycles, motorcycles, and motorscooters.

3. Public liability for bodily injuries - $500.00 maximum.

4. Public property damage - any one accident - $500.00 max.

In those days, it was all free-flight, and some U-control, but no R/C of any description. In 1945, a new car cost approx. $1000.00. That same car today would probably cost $25,000.00.
Using that same ratio then, the dues today should be somewhere about $175.00 per member - but they aren't - they are only 1/3 that amount. And since 1945, R/C has blossomed into AMA's largest component that must also be insured. There are still some die-hard free-flighters, and some U-controlers that make up the AMA membership that could care less about R/C'rs,
- but we are still in this together. $58.00 for dues that give you insurance protection, and a fairly good magazine, is still a bargain in my opinion.

COWS...

There has always been a full scale runway adjacent to the Muncie site, and I belive it is still owned and operated by Mr. Reese.

I am a long time AMA member, a CD and a LM. I would like to address several of the posts in this thread.

1. 'Strength in numbers' should be the number one priority of the AMA. Simply put, the lower the dues, the larger the number of members will be.

2. The AMA is prohibited from lobbying because of it's non-profit status. The EC has looked at this. Forming a seperate entity may allow the AMA to get around this the same way the NRA does.

3. Taildragger's comments about the SFA are off base and correct at the same time. This was a situation that was bound to wind up in court.

His statement about losing money in the market is not without basis. If you want to know more, you need to contact the members of the EC. EVP Doug Holland's reports in Model Aviation are without enough information to determine the amount of the losses. Hint: Look at the Statement of Cash Flows in the latest MA. Remove the bond principal and see what the statement then says.

Since Mr Holland and he alone is responsible for the investments, it is not likely that he will disclose the results in a useful form any time soon. Especially right before the election he is in.

4. To Ramcharger: It is my impression that Muncie is a sink-hole for money, but, that is unsupported, unlike my other statements in this post. When you consider that .7 of 1 percent of the membership flew in the NATS this year, it is debatable how much value it has. The headquarters building and the museum are absolutely necessary, the rest is, well... debatable.

I have found the HQ staff to be very responsive and efficient. When you realize that I am something of an AMA activist, that says a lot. I am a thorn in the side of some on the EC and question many of their policies and decisions, yet, the staff responds very professionally.

5. Sorry, Easytiger, the losses are not a lie. Write or call your VP and ask. RCAdmin, your statement is correct. The AMA did not lose money last year, but... the investments did. Ask your VP.

6. My opinion here. AMA is anything but rotten to the core. You have a dozen guys out there doing a job that no one else seems to want (the EC) and not being paid to do it. I truly believe that each and every member of the EC has the best interests of the membership at heart. Having said that, I certainly do not agree with some of their decisions. I think they went left when I would have preferred right. The current move to divide the AMA into three corporations leads to a bunch of questions for which I have no answers yet.

7. D_Dawg. Your ignoring the largest growth models have had since the 30's. The park flyers are selling in huge numbers. If the AMA can tap into those new flyer's, the membership will grow like crazy. At $58 per year it is not going to happen. The EC is looking at what approach to take. It may require a seperate class of license at a substantially lower dues. Eventually, the park flyer's that stay in the hobby will gravitate upwards. There are some serious problems that the AMA is facing with reference to park flyer's. In particular frequency conflicts.

The only way we will ever get enough flying sites is to grow the AMA to a much larger membership. When you break it down, each state only has about 3500 AMA members. Not enough of a political powerbase. The size of the membership MUST become the number one priority of the AMA, in my opinion.

8. RCPilot 100. When it gets to hot in the kitchen, it's time to get out. Maybe Dave Brown is finding it to hot in the kitchen. He knew what the job entails better than anyone, and ran again for office last year.

9. RCAdmin . The premium on the AMA Policy with Royal &Sun Alliance last year is $320,000 (7/3/2001). An increase of 64% (as reported by Dave Brown) would make that approximately $525,000. If we say the membership of Open members, thus
excluding Jr.'s, is approximately 140,000, that breaks out to a premium of about $3.75 per member anually. That does NOT include the amount that AMA is paying 'out of pocket. The exact amount is not disclosed, partially due to agreements in lawsuits not to disclose the settlement.

The actual profit or loss from MA, after all expenses and revenues is also not disclosed by Mr. Holland in his reports. The numbers are buried around the statements so that the final numbers can not be determined without the underlying documents. Queries to Mr. Holland about these numbers have ALWAYS gone unanswered.

10. Stomper. If the rumor you speak of is about a FULL-scale runway, there is an airport in existence next to the AMA site in Muncie. There have long been rumors about it. The facts are that the AMA holds the option to purchase the airport. There are some who reason that if it is sold and developed, it might cause the AMA headaches with neighbors. Speculation has been that some of the EC want it so they can fly into Muncie in thier private planes. That speculation is just that, speculation.

AND IN CLOSING (at long last <G>), if you dont like the way things are, do something about it. Vote, run for office, get out the vote, but, don't just sit there and type. If you are interested in AMA politics and don't know where to start, go to the AMA's web page and read the EC minutes. They are dry and time consuming and full of information, as are the by-laws of the AMA, available on the site also.

J_R

Private planes can and have flown into that airstrip; I'm confused?

After reading 40+ posts here, it is apparent that many myths exist about AMA among the modeling fraternity. Admittedly they are difficult to keep up with.
IMO, the purposes of AMA as written in the Bylaws are excellent for model aviation. IMO, the current administration of AMA leaves a good bit to be desired.
Just to brush over some of the topics within this thread, please allow me to make some statements of my opinions formed after years of work within AMA and model aviation.
I have been modeling since prior to 10 years old. I am now 66. I had 41 years in rider scale, 13 USAF, and 28 UAL. I was competitive in CL Stunt, FF "C" and OHLG. I flew almost every thing. I have been mostly RC for 30 years. I have worked at NATs, flown at NATs, been a District RCCC, and a VP. I am familiar with AMA. I am familiar with Special Interest Groups, (SIGs). I belong to IMAA, PAMPA, RCCA, SWRA, NMPRA, NASA, and -- not a SIG but a great group, The Flying ACES, a rubber power organization. Gentleman, I AM a modeler.

The thesis of Muncie is correct. Any organization needs a home base and not one too shabby. You don't respect big business that exists in the Red Light Dist. even in DC. AMA deserves respect. A country estate is the place. The facility there is the showplace for our sport. I opted for a different place and sent a 20 page study saying so, but I was over ruled. Muncie is what we have, so let us go from there.
AMA insurance is SECONDARY. That is fine. It keeps the cost down. My $2,000,000.00 umbrella policy costs some $400.00+ each year with 350,000 liability in both auto and home. Yet, AMA insurance covers that other guy that might hit me and I can expect financial reward when he damages ME. I do not fly where non-AMA people fly.

AMA needs to retreat from trying to run an Insurance Conglomerate. AMA needs to focus first on getting public media attention to Model Aviation as a worthwhile sport and hobby, highly educational, a great family leisure time hobby and/or highly competitive sport and actually very inexpensive when compared to boats, sports cars, and even going to a weekly baseball or other game.
Once this program gets moving -- and I have several ideas about that -- then AMA will be in much better to go for more and better flying sites from local to national governing bodies. IMO we CAN be the aviation soccer moms.

IMO building sham corporations should be left to Enron and World Com. Such items are not needed at AMA. As one that endured six successive years with IRS harassment, and won, I do not wish to see AMA entangled in situations that could well result in loss of the IRS 501c3 status. Many of AMA's current actions are done strictly to maintain that status, such as the scholarships and portions of the magazine.

One thing is for sure. Today, information is far too well hidden to suit me. If the membership elects to change things as I desire for them to do, you, as members, will have access to all the information you would ever want on a personal web site before this time in 2003.
AMA is a necessity for our hobby/sport to continue as we need more and more available flying sites. These will happen only through public acceptance through media and public informational processes. The media respects an organization with good window-dressing as the *General* used to tell us, and a worthwhile activity to support. AMA needs a professional and responsible staff focused on the needs of promoting model aviation, while able to provide reasonable secondary insurance plan, but not a conglomerate where the benefits of such item may well not be those paying the premiums.
These are my opinions and that is why I am seeking the office of Executive Vice President for AMA.

Thanks for clearing that up for me JR

Doug

Oh MY GOD!! I got hit by, of all things, a park flyer!! Think I could sue the AMA for the small welt on the side of my head!

YES! and mental anquish, and your wife could sue for "loss of services" during your period of anquish. And you don't even have to be holding a cup of hot coffee between your legs as your teen age driver sees how far he can jump the speed bumps.

Red S. AMA 951

Hey Sport_Pilot
So your the guy that caued my 10# plane to hit me up side my head because you were on my freq only a mile away. Dang that smarted.
GEF

Horace,

I think you are right on target with what AMA should accomplish. I see the main function being to work with government to insure the future of our hobby. Available frequencies and property should be the #1 priority. Insurance, magazines, competitions etc. are all secondary.

I responded to this thread several days ago and have
been following it ever since. I did make a statement about
"Strength in numbers" this was made in reference to the
fact that if we all operated as individuals perhaps we
wouldn't be as well off as we are now...who knows ?

As a individual I have the power of one,but with the
AMA "we" have the power of " many". I don't agree
with much that has evolved over the years but we are
better of with an organization than without .

Take a look at the poll being taken , most agree.
Also look at the number of people who read it ,
only about 5% bother to submit a reply. That may
indicate that 95% know the price went up and it
doesn't seem to effect them very much .Or at least
enough to post a reply.

Roby