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Drug Testing

Old 12-30-2005, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

What is a troll?
What do they do?
Old 12-30-2005, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

So what if this is a troll ?


95% of the threads in this forum are trolls !!


Old 12-30-2005, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing


ORIGINAL: cyclops2

What is a troll?
What do they do?
LOL[sm=lol.gif] LOL[sm=lol.gif] LOL[sm=lol.gif]


Old 12-30-2005, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

ORIGINAL: gboulton
ORIGINAL: the-plumber

This troll doesn't merit discussion.
And, you'll note, none of us are discussing the troll...save you.
Really ?

Might I direct you to posts 14 and 22, and request that you note the contributors thereof ?


We ARE discussing the ISSUE (s)he raised. Perhaps some think it's an issue worthy of discussion. Perhaps others (such as myself) think it's interesting merely as an exercise in rhetoric. In either case, it seems to me that it serves nobody to enter a discussion with no contribution beyond "I don't find this discussion to be of value."
Since you appear to need convincing that the thread subject is sheer nonsense . . .

It is not an issue, it has never been an issue, and for the foreseeable future it will remain a non-issue. It is a troll, pure and simple.

Flying toy airplanes is not subject to AMA control, rather it is subject to FAA control. FAA have not as yet opted to exercise any control over the operation of toy airplanes, resulting in no such control being exercised by anyone.

The proposition is likely based on the notion of extending the compulsory drug testing currently in place for pilots engaged in 1:1 aerobatic competition to include pilots of model aircraft flown in international competition. Meaning the guys who make the rules for world class toy airplane events are considering mandating compulsory periodic and random testing of those who play with toy airplanes at FAI sanctioned competitions.

That, BTW, is not news. The proposal is at least a year old.

What is newer is the notion that AMA is an associate member of NAA, and by that association is recognized by FAI as the U.S. aeromodeling body, and as such the people who participate in AMA sanctioned events should be subject to the same anti-doping _madness_ being inflicted on the folks who operate their 'toy airplanes' from >inside< that 'toy airplane', e.g. FAI aerobatic competition pilots of the rider-scale variety.

The troll takes the same tactic as was used by Shrub et al to foist Patriot on the country : Should Americans give up some freedoms to help increase national security ?
That tactic is no more valid when applied to the concept of AMA enforcing anti-doping measures on members, over whom the AMA has absolutely no control or authority to do so.

It is a troll designed to ensnare 'right thinking' toy airplane pilots into arguing for enacting such anti-doping measures when no such measures are needed. Moreover, the troll enlists those same 'right thinking' persons to extoll the values to be realized by the perceived new level of 'safety', with the end result that they themselves are convinced to surrender yet another freedom and chastize those who would argue otherwise.

Worse, it would indeed be a measure of invasion of privacy, one based on the tenet that an organization has the ability to require it's members to prove their innocence, solely because those persons are members of the organization; i.e. because those members _exist_.

I am a person. In my country I have certain inalienable rights. One of those rights is the guarantee that I will not be required to endure unreasonable searches and seizures.

The number of courts which have held that subjecting a citizen to bodily examinations, including drug testing, simply because that citizen exists (e.g. is in a particular place or locale at a given time) is a violation of the guarantee regarding unreasonable searches and seizures.

The notion that implementing drug testing (anti-doping measures, in the FAI litany) will do anything to reduce drug abuse or offer any increased level of safety is ludicrous at best, and does nothing more than illustrate that the proponents of such draconian measures don't know diddly about habitual drug abusers - those abusers always think they won't get caught.

The absolute worst thing about throwing out our protections against unreasonable searches and seizures can be found in the 'case' against Lance Armstrong. Years ago the world bicycle racing Czars gave themselves the authority to subject their competitors to at-will and scheduled drug abuse and anti-doping tests. The 'authority' to do so has resulted in Lance Armstrong being labelled as a drug abuser by French newspapers intending on insuring that the Tour de France be in future won by French cyclists. The 'case' against Armstrong is a fraud and a natural political outgrowth of the lofty intentions of the folks who were willing to toss out freedoms in search of higher levels of safety.

If you support drug testing or anti-doping programs for AMA, I submit that you simply have not bothered to think the process through to it's only logical conclusion.

Given the very nature of club politics, how long do you think you would last as a club member and an AMA member if you manage to win a handful of club competitions ? Not long, I submit. I submit that the very nature of club politics would result in one or more disgruntled club members making accusations against you, accusations that not only do they not have to prove, but accusations against which you would be required to prove your innocence; guilty until proven innocent is the usual term.

BTW, we also have a guarantee against being compelled to self-incriminate. In the movies it's usually referred to as 'taking the fifth', and that protection applies to fluids as well as statements.

Having said all that, I gaze into my newly-calibrated crystal ball and predict that in the near future, AMA members who hold FAI Sporting Licenses will be illegally subjected to the same sort of abuses as was Lance Armstrong, simply because he was there and happened to shatter a handful of world records. AMA members will have to _pay_ for this idiotic drug testing.

It will drive your dues right into the clouds, but it won't affect me at all because my membership card expires when I die. I'm immune to due increases, so I don't really care that a pack of chicken littles may decide to throw out yet another freedom in a vain search of "safety" that can never be achieved.

Lastly, it remains my opinion that the thread subject is a TROLL. You've got a lot of work ahead of you trying to prove my opinion less valid than yours.

Howzzat for >discussion<, bub ?
Old 12-30-2005, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

You guys just don't understand how pervasive the drug problem IS in our hobby today. Particularly in the Giant Scale Aerobatics scene. People look up to these guys, especially kids...it's about time to put a stop to it.

These guys are willing to travel 2500 miles to a contest, but not willing to wee in a cup? What's the big deal? Everybody should be tested, and anybody who has a PROBLEM with being tested probably has a PROBLEM with dope.

Enough said. Test them all.
Old 12-30-2005, 10:42 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

le
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

You guys just don't understand how pervasive the drug problem IS in our hobby today. Particularly in the Giant Scale Aerobatics scene. People look up to these guys, especially kids...it's about time to put a stop to it.

These guys are willing to travel 2500 miles to a contest, but not willing to wee in a cup? What's the big deal? Everybody should be tested, and anybody who has a PROBLEM with being tested probably has a PROBLEM with dope.

Enough said. Test them all.

What a CROCK!
Who is going to see all the results of your proposed testing?
What pervasive drug problem in our hobby?
You are making these statements with what to back it up?
Where do you see a drug problem in R/C?
Have you reported it to any authorities?
If not, you are just blowing wind!


You said it right Fred McClellen! I'm with you on this one!
Dave Burton
Old 12-30-2005, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

Easytiger. Do you drug test your kids and their friends? Their dates? City governments ? JUDGES?????


Did you get your data by taking urine samples from pilots in men's rooms, WITHOUT telling them?
Old 12-30-2005, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

Anyone who is NOT on drugs should have NO problem giving a sample. NO problem.
What are you guys so afraid of?
Old 12-30-2005, 11:28 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

Easytiger. I am going to assume the obvious about your position and your push to drug test anybody at any time for drugs.
You SELL drug testing equipment.
No other possibility makes any sense.
Old 12-30-2005, 11:30 PM
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ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

Anyone who is NOT on drugs should have NO problem giving a sample. NO problem.
What are you guys so afraid of?

I'm afraid of people who think like this!
Old 12-30-2005, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing


ORIGINAL: EASYTIGERYou guys just don't understand how pervasive the drug problem IS in our hobby today. Particularly in the Giant Scale Aerobatics scene. People look up to these guys, especially kids...it's about time to put a stop to it.

These guys are willing to travel 2500 miles to a contest, but not willing to wee in a cup? What's the big deal? Everybody should be tested, and anybody who has a PROBLEM with being tested probably has a PROBLEM with dope.

Enough said. Test them all.
I hear ya on the GS Aerobatics thing. We recently had to increase the pilot entry fees to help pay for the special brownies we pass out on unknowns day. Let me tell you though, watching freestyle routines with smoke is wicked while you're tripping on IMAC-approved crack. Best of all, no one cares who won at the end because we're all baked out of our minds. You should try IMAC some time; it's great. [sm=stupid.gif]
Old 12-30-2005, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

Do a search.. There are a million and one ways around a drug screen if people choose to do so.

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?F...ss+drug+screen

It is all political BS and a way for someone who does not want to work to make money (from both sides) without any real benefit to anyone.. Get a real job and leave my ***** out of it..
Old 12-31-2005, 12:19 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

ORIGINAL: cyclops2

Easytiger. I am going to assume the obvious about your position and your push to drug test anybody at any time for drugs.
You SELL drug testing equipment.
No other possibility makes any sense.
I see only one possibility for your position AGAINST drug testing...that you yourself must be on drugs. You know...SOME of us don't NEED drugs to enjoy life or fly better. Shame on you. You should look at yourself. What is it that happened to you that made you so empty, or so unhappy, that you need chemicals to fill that void? It's just so SAD.

Seek help. Reach out. While you can.
Old 12-31-2005, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons


ORIGINAL: EASYTIGERYou guys just don't understand how pervasive the drug problem IS in our hobby today. Particularly in the Giant Scale Aerobatics scene. People look up to these guys, especially kids...it's about time to put a stop to it.

These guys are willing to travel 2500 miles to a contest, but not willing to wee in a cup? What's the big deal? Everybody should be tested, and anybody who has a PROBLEM with being tested probably has a PROBLEM with dope.

Enough said. Test them all.
I hear ya on the GS Aerobatics thing. We recently had to increase the pilot entry fees to help pay for the special brownies we pass out on unknowns day. Let me tell you though, watching freestyle routines with smoke is wicked while you're tripping on IMAC-approved crack. Best of all, no one cares who won at the end because we're all baked out of our minds. You should try IMAC some time; it's great. [sm=stupid.gif]
Oh, it's all a big joke to YOU, Mister Man...till these IMAC guys get YOUR kid hooked on dope. What then? You'll be laughing out of the OTHER side of your mouth.
Old 12-31-2005, 12:34 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

Oh Tiger man.
You did not answer my questions about drug testing all the people around you.
Only Hitler is above passing his own tests.
You holy than thou drug dealer. Calling me a drug user.
Scum bag.
Where is the supposed moderator?
Old 12-31-2005, 12:40 AM
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All the people around me ARE drug tested. I test my family routinely, none of them complain. They know it's for their own good, and unlike some OTHERS, they have nothing to hide.
Kind of makes you wonder, when someone is so vehemently against drug testing, what they have up their sleeve. Or in their veins.

Hitler was on drugs, that was part of his problem. He had Mengele giving him morphine. But I guess you already knew that, from reading your drug books and such.

At any rate...why are YOU so against testing model flyers? Are you an IMAC member?
Old 12-31-2005, 12:58 AM
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You are a total and complete failure as a husband and father if you do NOT have enough confidence in how you were supposed to raise them.
You blew it completly.
You have totaly destroyed any long lasting confidence they can have for you.
you also do not know a thing about me and yet you call me a drug user.
You have had a painfull relationship with someone on drugs. It has removed all the joy that should be between you and your family.
I will not hurt you more than you have been.
Old 12-31-2005, 01:30 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing


ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

quote]
I see only one possibility for your position AGAINST drug testing...that you yourself must be on drugs. You know...SOME of us don't NEED drugs to enjoy life or fly better. Shame on you. You should look at yourself. What is it that happened to you that made you so empty, or so unhappy, that you need chemicals to fill that void? It's just so SAD.

Seek help. Reach out. While you can.

I'd be interested in what drugs (legal or otherwise) would make someone actually fly better?
Everything I can think of would produce the opposite.


Old 12-31-2005, 02:51 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

The same FASCIST mentality that put HITLER in power would also heartily endorse drug screening at flying events. Let's take it a step further and rule out those who can't pass a tread mill test or who have ever had a prior loss of consciousness for any reason.
Old 12-31-2005, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

ORIGINAL: cyclops2

Easytiger. I am going to assume the obvious about your position and your push to drug test anybody at any time for drugs.
You SELL drug testing equipment.
No other possibility makes any sense.
The obvious alternative is that he's trolling.
Old 12-31-2005, 08:21 AM
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ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

All the people around me ARE drug tested. I test my family routinely, none of them complain. They know it's for their own good...
Most likely they are too afraid of you to complain. I've seen what happens when kids who grow up in environments like this leave home. The outcome is usually not pretty. Tiger, if what you say is true, you are a disturbed individual. It's sad to hear that anyone is forced to live in such an environment of mistrust.
Old 12-31-2005, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

Well I looked up TROLL in my 1964 book and it is a fokelore Scandinavian race of supernatural beings living away from the normal majority.

This topic IS definately created by a insecure and freightened splinter group that converts others to live in absolute fear with them.
The leaders FEEL secure by having their blind obedient followers do what ever they are told to do, for the good of everyone alive.
Just another clever way of getting control of others.
In otherwords: They can not compete sucessfully in normal politics. The bussiness of controling the people.
Just like the way all modern products are sold. By creating doubt and fear in their future customers.
Old 12-31-2005, 09:30 AM
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Come on guys, Tiger's just trolling as usual. No one is actually stupid enough to write what he does and believe it.
Old 12-31-2005, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: Drug Testing

I am really losing it.------------------ Forget the drug testing.
Test all people who want to compete AND attend to be tested for being a TROLL.
Lets have a poll on testing people for being a TROLL or TROLL like!
TROLLS are not allowed to play with us.[sm=thumbup.gif]
Old 12-31-2005, 10:51 AM
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