Dear Fellow RCU'ers:

The PIPE here...over the past few months, my club, the Wingbusters in Halifax, MA, seems to have felt the need to "really enforce" its field rules that are listed at http://www.wingbusters.org/WBSAFTY.html ...and because of things about the way I've found that I have to do things over nearly fifty years of life so far, because I've always had problems with doing things that regard visual preception-versus how things I'm controlling around me behave as I operate them, I'm totally unable to touch-type or play a music keyboard (piano, organ, etc) WITHOUT looking DIRECTLY at it as I type or play music, "relatively" unable to ride a conventional bicycle (because my muscles cannot react fast enough to keep me from toppling over), and I'm also one of those type of people who NEVER feel safe about taking-off their RC aircraft, unless they stand DIRECTLY behind it, and take off directly away from themselves.

The "obstructing rule" in my club's safety rule listing, versus my own known limitations, is as follows...

"Take off and landings must be done while standing at the pilot stations."

But WHAT to do, about a possibly "exclusionary rule" like this, if the TAKEOFF part just CANNOT be done this way, by someone with the sort of situation my body has to operate in???

I've tried to come up WITH a "comnon-sense" set of rules to operate under for myself, that SHOULD allow me...if, as at a previous club meeting, the officers suggested that I might want to stick to flying either early in the morning on weekend days (starting my flying AT 7:30, the morning fueled engine flight limit)...which IS a time I prefer...or later on weekday afternoons, like after work lets out for the day, which can also be a nice time for flying.

Here's the set of rules I came up with for myself, to TRY to accomodate other modeler's needs as well...

1). When I'm setting the plane [with engine idling] down on the ground on the taxiing apron (BEYOND the pit area), I look around to check for anyone who needs to take off or land...or IS landing.

2). Taxiing out TO the area where the taxiway and runway join is OK...as long as I do it near the mowed EDGE of the taxiway...while continuing to watch, from time to time, for "taking-off" or landing models.

3). When...and ONLY when...all the planes that are flying are clearly NOT going to be landing "anytime soon", taxi the plane near the edge of the runway, and get the plane into its final position for takeoff, while walking along the edge, all the while keeping "one's head on a swivel" to know WHAT's going on, around oneself.

4). While the plane sits idling in the position it will be taking off from, continue walking out along the edges of the runway, until you're behind the plane, and if needed do a quick full-throttle burst of power while holding onto the tail to "clear" the engine.

5). FINALLY...with everything lined up for takeoff, and the air ahead clear of other aircraft, get that throttle up and allow the plane to head directly AWAY from you, so a close eye can be kept on any unforeseen changes in the takeoff path, like ones needing right rudder for correction (typical of taildraggers-all I've ever flown before) and get the aircraft climbing SMOOTHLY and safely...and after getting the plane up and in normal flight, carefully walk back to the "common area" where it's expected for the pilots to be while flying their planes, whether it's a pilot station, or something else...and ENJOY the flight!

Please remember, I'm ONLY having to TAKE OFF at a location that's most likely going to be at the end of the runway...as long as I can stand DIRECTLY behind the model on take off...and then after my plane has safely climbed out and I've been able to start the first turn, for example in a typical "racetrack" flight pattern, I can THEN head for a pilot's station, and then enjoy a safe flight from that time on, IN the pilot's station, AFTER I've been where I KNOW I need to be for a safe takeoff...based on how I know my body "can and can't do" certain common things.

These sorts of "general limitations" I've got, on not being able to do touch-typing, riding a bike safely, OR being able to use a pilot's station for the ENTIRE flight (including takeoff) is, as I've learned over many decades, simply NOT the sort of thing one can "learn" their way out of...it COULD very likely be the way "the Creator has wired one's body to operate", and then it's most likely something that can NEVER really be "overcome" by any amount of training to try to make the body do something it was never intended to do in the first place...

...but, IF I follow those "self-imposed" rules I've mentioned here, and try to stick to those days of the week and their flying times that the club officers suggested, when I might find opposition to what I need to do to be minimal at best, should I be all right for the most part???

Heck, I'd even be willing to wear a hard hat (like an RC Pylon racing judge at the first pylon HAS to wear by AMA regulations) for my needed takeoff position to keep myself safer...the WW I & Golden Age birds that I'm designing up on my CAD drawing screen at home would GREATLY benefit from a "tail-view" takeoff position to catch developing ground loops in the making...but what would other RCers here have to say about the limitations I've got, about HAVING to take off directly away from myself-AND what I'm trying to do to accomodate other's flyer's needs???

Hoping to hear some constructive help on this one...and ideas to improve those self-imposed rules I'm willing to operate under, to be fairer to others while I'm flying...!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE.....!

I know that you probably do not want to hear this but, even after all of you flying, the buddy box and someone with a bunch of patience is still your best solution.
Past that, it would be akin to carrying a parking meter and traffic cones with you because parallel parking was in issue.

This isn't meant to condemn, but I'm really curious how, with your admitted problems of perception, and your ability to react to them, do you fly? If you have the skills to react while the aircraft is airborne, and more importantly landing, how is it that you have so much difficulty taking off?

The biggest concern that I would have with your suggestion is safety. You could somewhat mitigate that by mandating that you have a spotter accompany you to the runway to watch for other aircraft, and then once you're in the air, to assist you back to the pilot's station so you don't have to take your eyes off the plane nor worry about tripping. Allowing you on the runway alone while other aircraft are flying wouldn't be acceptable risk in my eyes. While you may be able to maintain vigilence while preparing to take off, once you begin rolling, you're going to be totally engrossed in your own plane's flight path, especially with your noted difficulty. That leaves no margin of safety should someone experience a deadstick or other problem.

My .02

Tim

I belonged to a club that had a guy who had several designs published in RCM - all pattern type planes. Depending on the wind, he would walk across the landing area because he could only land from one direction!

Pipe, I think you need to get help and learn to takeoff and land correctly from the pilot's box.

Paul

Rules are rules and exceprions cannot be made for everyone's own personal issues. Handicaps aside, where there is law in Mass that allows for such concessions. I cannot do a right hand lay up when playing basketball, so I just donot do them. I do not ask for a special concession because I have a visual distortion in my right eye that precludes me from scoring.

I say good for Wingbusters enforce the rules and if you come to my club we will do the same. stay at the station or get off the field.

By the way, I though Wingbusters lost their field? If not then why the huge influx of wingbuster members to our club? Just curious, you know how rumors are in the South Shore.

PIPE
I can clearly understand your problem. Over the years I've
helped ,(or tried to) several flyers with the same problem
of needing to be behind the model to take off. I can only
offer this suggestion , practice your take offs.

Put your plane in the middle of the runway and go for it.
if it doesn't feel rite or isn't working out, power down ,
turn around and do it again until you get it. Eventually
you'll do it or others will tire and then suggest you
stand behind the plane. It's a bit of a ride but if that
doesn't work you are
more than welcome to fly with me as I could care less
where you stand ,(or sit)when your in the air. Just let
me know when your on the runway.

Regards
Roby

Plain and simple, you CAN'T be fair to the other pilots if you can't learn to take off and land from the designated area.

Just because the planes in the air don't seem like they're going to need to land "anytime soon," doesn't mean they won't need to land two seconds from now because the mixture leaned out unexpectedly, the main battery died, or they're getting radio interference. You're standing out on the runway. IF they realize you're there, they have to crash their plane in the bushes and destroy it because they don't want to hit you. If they DON'T realzie you're there, you're toast. Either way, it's not fair to that other flyer. They either have to deal with the mental anguish and financial consequences of losing the plane, or the mental anguish and financial consequences of hitting you. What makes it worse is that it's an AVOIDABLE, dangerous situation YOU created by going out on the runway. They'll be held responsible, even though it's YOUR fault.

The ONE time someone tried that stunt at our field, they nearly got their head taken off by a plane making an emergency landing! How many near misses have you had doing this?

If you can't learn to take the plane off from the designated area, have someone do it for you. Get airplanes that will take off across the runway. Start flying hand-launch planes.

You know what PIPE, it seems that you are the one doing all you can to accommodate the other flyers at your field. The other flyers are just not interested in your 'problem' or really don't care, FFS this is a hobby where we go to enjoy ourselves not to nit pick at someone who doesn't or can not perform like the "experts"..........
Big deal PIPE can't take off without standing directly behind his plane, so what!!!! Its not like he is going to be standing in the center of the runway during his 10 min flight. He has come to an arrangement and a procedure that seems OK to me and sounds acceptable. We are talking a minute, minute and a half, tops that other flyers have to be aware he is on the runway, where's the harm in that????
As for planes taking his head off, that can and has happened to flyers on flight stations or in the pitts, pretty lame statement as an argument.

I for the life of me can't figure out how taxiing is any different than flying in regards to being behind the plane. The same hand-eye coordination is needed whether the plane is on the ground or in the air. The only difference is which stick(s) is moved.

That being said, if your flying site is not over crowded, it seems like you should be able to negotiate a time when every one else is down to take off. Once you are in the air and back at the pilot's station, then others could go up as long as you don't have trouble with the flying part.

If what you say is true about not being able to type or play music without looking at your hands, how can you fly a model without constantly looking at the transmitter. Seems like your contradicting yourself and your post makes it sound like your looking for sympothy. Like most have said just learn or train yourself to do it, practice, practice, practice, and follow the rules.

One suggestion for making it easier. Start your take off roll from directly in front of you or past where your standing and face the same direction as the plane. Don't start down the runway so your comming at yourself.

How can you possibly fly around and land if you cant takeoff from the pilots stations. Do you just fly race track pattern, and turn your body to face which way the plane is going? If you can fly around and land without orientating yourself to the plane's direction, you can takeoff that way too. I dont buy it.

It sounds to me like you either have some more training to do, or just need to get over that mental "block".

I normally dont recommend a simulator for anything but goofing off and choreography, but perhaps a sim would help you get over that hurdle.

I can tell you this. If you continue to stand at the end of a active runway...you WILL get hit. Its inevitable. Its a bad practice, and dangerous. It would be better for you to take off across the runway then to stand at the end of it.

Best Wishes, and good luck. You can do it if you practice.

Ya know...my dad was "handicapped" (he preferred to be called a cripple...said "physically challenged" was just patronizing).

He had a tremendous amount of appreciation for companies, organizations, and individuals who made reasonable accomodations or exceptions to allow him to participate in their activity, or shop in their store, or what have you. He frequented businesses with van accessible parking spots, attended events held at wheelchair friendly venues, and participated in various activities (like putt putt golf) whose organizers made a point of accomodating him and others like him.

He also, however, recognized and accepted the simple FACT that there were certain activites he simply wasn't capable of performing, either finding himself completely unable to accomplish the tasks required, or unable to do so in a manner that didn't jeopardize himself, others, or personal property.

Pipe, maybe you have some diagnosable disorder that limits depth perception, or peripheral vision...or maybe it's "just mental"...who knows.

But you no more have the 'right" to fly planes your own way, in a manner potentially dangerous to yourself and/or others, than any random newbie who hasn't yet learned to take off safely.

Work out an arrangement that allows you to fly when nobody else is in the air, or find a field with pilot boxes more suited to your preferences and abilities, or practice taking off the "right" way with simulator time and the help of fellow hobbyists.

Asking others to grant an exception to safety rules because of your inability to perform the most basic of flight tasks, however, smacks of "nobody's responsible for themselves" thinking.

Pipe I don't have any ideas how to help you, but at our field it would not be an issue. We do not have flight stations, or taxiways, or runways. We have had our field since 1971 and have practiced the following procedures without ever a serious accident. Our field is a 5 acre square with trees on the east and south sides and open fields to the west and north. We drive on the field, except in early spring when ground is soft, and establish a vehicle line, pit row, and flight line based on wind and sun conditions. Vehicles face the outside edge of the field, and we unload out of trunks and pit row is diredtly behind rear of vehicles. Planes are stated out in front of pit row facing towards center of field and a restraint must be employed, while flying pilots stand about 10 feet in front of the pits in a parrallel line. All take offs and landings are into the wind and away from the pilots, pits, and cars. For example, if wind is from southwest we park on the east side toward the north edge and take off to the southwest and land from the notheast. On calm days we fly from the east side in the am, sun at our backs, and then in mid afternoon everyone picks up and we will move to the west side so sun is again at our backs. Key to this is field is mowed weekly and grass kept short. Because we never have to do crosswind landings, we never have a plane fly in to the end of the flight line or pit row because someone can't execute the crosswind landing, which per AMA is the most common cause of serious injuries. The need for RC to emulate scale airports with fixed runways and flight stations, remote parking, etc we believe causes more problems than it cures. Clubs can make all the rules they want, but someone someday needs to study this compulsive desire for flight stations, promoted by the AMA for years, and see if it really makes things safer or not. We say not. Flight stations and runways often are the result of having too small a field or a field with rough ground or unmowed grass or not being allowed to drive on the field. Find an RC field out in the country where they have more room, we belive it is about having fun and helping each other, and not about enforcing rules to inhibit the less skilled or less practiced pilots. Our method lets everyone fly safely without all the bickering. That little fence box won't help much when a plane comes from above and hits you in the head, it might protect someones ankles from a plane lose on the ground, but most of us would rather just be able to move out of the way. Can't wait for all the rule makers to respond.

K-3 you have a couple of good points but they seem to be coming from the perspective of how flying is done at one field.
A great many fields have surfaced runways for all sorts of reasons. Many high performance and heavy iron birds really cannot reliably fly from anything less.
Also the reason for learning to fly from the side and to turn both directions with equal ease is rooted in practicality not to thwart rule makers.
Traveling to other flying sites for fly ins or guest flying sooner or later will have you in a situation where the "normal flying" is nothing like your home field. Be it right hand patterns, cross wind landings, mid field take offs, trees or a ditch at one end, etc. something will be out of your comfort zone.
If you have not learned and practiced for these sorts of things then your flying experience will be diminished or non existent.
Check in my gallery pictures to see the range of things that I fly and you will notice that there is a different airfield shown for almost every picture.

We have flown all types of planes from our grass field, warbirds, 3-D, gas, etc up to 40%, key is field needs to be smooth and well mowed. I never said anything about not being able to fly from the side or turn both ways etc, we have a lot of pilots who can fly almost anywhere. Our point was our field procedures allow more pilots of different skill levels to fly safely. Those who want to practice flying, landing, or taking off cross wind are free to do so, but don't have to if you don't want to or can't do so safely. A lot of fields have been configured with fixed runways, stations, parking etc because of physical limitations, or because someone decreed that is the way a field has to be laid out. Just saying there may be better ways. Lot of people think an RC field has to function like a full scale airport, in the midwest we have alot of grass fields that prove it doesn't have to.

I think if you can fly the plane and land then plane then you have the skills to take off. I think it is just a mental block that you need to get past with practice. You have the skills pipe I know you can get past this minor bump.

As far as the rules go, the club could lose their insurance if the safety rules are not enforced. They aren't just picking on you on this to be mean.

73s om

someone else mentioned it, but i've had it happen to me personally. (i was the guy landing) just because someone doesn't think they are going to land doesn't mean they won't be coming down soon, and some planes glide like rocks... I had my shrike deadstick on me once with someone on the runway, and from deadstick to on the ground is about 5 seconds. they managed to move VERY quickly to get out of the way of a very fast moving shrike, but had i not been sure they had been out of the way i would have been forced to ditch a plane to avoid someone on the runway.

personally i would not do that with anyone in the air, beyond that I think it is fine.

I started flying from the back side of ONeil airport between Lawrenceville Illinois and Vincennes Indiana. I am well familiar with grass strips including the ones around Bloomington Indiana. In the last 35 years I have found many more fixed position fields than the situation you describe. Currently I fly from mowed grass, Propex, and concrete depending on which field I am using. While I can fly most of them from grass there are some that don't do well on the grass even after the gang type reel mowers have been over it more than once. Aerobatic stuff in the 40% range is probably the easiest to fly from grass, scale jets on the other hand tend to turn into high speed turf rippers.

I started flying from the back side of ONeil airport between Lawrenceville Illinois and Vincennes Indiana. I am well familiar with grass strips including the ones around Bloomington Indiana. In the last 35 years I have found many more fixed position fields than the situation you describe. Currently I fly from mowed grass, Propex, and concrete depending on which field I am using. While I can fly most of them from grass there are some that don't do well on the grass even after the gang type reel mowers have been over it more than once. Aerobatic stuff in the 40% range is probably the easiest to fly from grass, scale jets on the other hand tend to turn into high speed turf rippers.

Have to agree with you on jets, grass and jets don't play well together. But for everything else, asphlat and concrete runways aren't everything they are "cracked up" to be. Pardon the pun.

Pipe, not to upset you or your club or make any judgment, however FYI there is at least one club that recognizes certain situations.

>>>>>> 7. Pilots and Callers and or Helpers will stand at the pilot stations while flying. Pilot will call out to other pilots that
he/she is going onto the runway, Taking-Off, or Landing. (NOTE: It is permissible to make a Take-Off from the runway,
but after the Take-Off, proceed to the first available Pilot Station.)
<<<<<<<<

Rule is short by your standards but it works.

Learn how to fly. You fly the plane, plane should not fly you. Sorry, I know you did not want to hear that.

Then quit flying RC and take up control line. And quit making excuses.

Just curious, since you say you are unable to take off unless you are directly behind the plane, when you land, do you need to be directly in front of it??

Reason we dont stand at the end of runways.

http://media.putfile.com/lufthansa