I think this fellow said it best!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1804312/tm.htm

Ray-

Are there any issues that can be identified as district-specific? Frankly, I don't know of any AMA District policies/rules where I am, and I don't know of any other districts where any exist. I'm taking advantage of your bringing up the question, as it's one that I have had for a long time. Why do we get to vote only for one DVP in most elections and only for the one in our own district, when all of AMA members are affected pretty much equally by whomever is elected in any district? Don't expect or solicit an answer to that - just offering MHO that a per district forum doesn't work for me. Some DVPs already have such forums, some open and some heavily moderated by the DVP or his hand-picked moderator (i.e, district webmaster) and regulated as to who can participate. Some have web sites that have been dead for years - look at D-X, the largest district. Some unofficial, 'alternative' view forums have existed, as in D-V during the seemingly interminable tenure of McSnuze. AMA members are generally affected by what every member of the EC does so district forums seem an arbitrary partitioning of discussion. Okay, you stirred me up!

Abel

Just throwing ideas around abel, but you are correct about AMA issues being not limited to individual districts. AMA policy does affect each member regardless of district. I just don't know what the answer would be, thats why I am hoping somebody with more thinking power then me comes up with a fantastic idea. You ever sit through an entire episode of Phil Donahue, or Jerry Springer, and then ask yourself why in the world did I sit and watch that stupid show? You ever stand in the grocery line with your wife and thumb through the tabloids? I guess maybe people are just drawn to controversy. I am just glad we are unable to throw chairs at each other.

Ray
I agree with you about the personal attack thing. I also think the fourm is ok the way it is. if we start a new forum it will only be a matter of time before its the same old thing.

I would say the people who like to stir things up are not the majorty and if we all
deside to debate each other less that would help a lot.

Ray, you certainly have some excellent ideas, however a few tend to border on idealism. Any subject which different people have different interests and degrees of passion for will bring some definite strong discussions and output from the different levels. Had a few rabble-rousing instigators not been overly (according to most at the time) passionate about their freedoms, then you would be still paying taxes to the King on that little island just off the west side of the European continent. [>:]

BTW I don't have the time to waste on such garbage as you speak of in the post quoted just above, therefore I am not answering that specific post.

I voted for a clean slate. However there are so few people in AMA that have a real understanding of what AMA is supposed to be, versus what AMA is, and where AMA is going that there will always be some strong controversy. Like in our national government, people of honorable character are very difficult to find. People of strong character have to stand and be counted due to the many that are only interested in padding their own pockets versus what is overall better for the populace.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of individuals posting here that have such problems with basic reading comprehension as well as expression of their own thoughts. Maybe it is because their mind is so made up, that they simply refuse to consider other information. Some individuals react to something quoted in a post, then attribute the idea to the poster that simply quoted someone else. So many have not a clue to basic economic terminology they surely were expose to in high school.
The solution is simple: Do not get overly involved in those things one doesn't really understand. I certainly am not getting into discussions about Li-Poly batts. or definitely not computer sciences. I may ask a dumb question, but I have to accept whatever I am told as I DON"T HAVE A CLUE about the subjects along with eons more.
By the same token for all these newbies to AMA politics and model aviation background (not electrics) may I suggest that they ask some questions prior to spouting off about so much they have no clue about. AMA is not an insurance company. AMA's chief functions when all the Bylaws' purposes are lumped together are simply the promotion of model aviation as a science and competition.

In reality, controversy has forever been here and will remain longer than you or I. Those that cannot live with it, better hope they have a good hiding place.

Therefore I can live with wiping the slate clean, starting over and see what happens. I posted an item in another forum as I thought it too important to hide here. Results are S-O-S, Different day.


Good luck however you get it handled.

On a serious note, I personally do not know why the AMA forum was the one that was designated to allow flames, trolls and hate and discontent in the first place. I have been a member of the AMA for many years, and while it is not perfect, it has done more for us than any of us has done for it. I personally feel that if not for the AMA, we would have lost our radio frequencies years ago. There have been instances where the AMA has been instrumental in helping a club secure a flying field. Do I even need to mention the supplimental insurance that membership provides?

There have been attempts over the years for the formation of other groups. They have (with 2 notable exceptions) failed. There is strength in numbers, and while I do not personally agree with every decision that comes out of Muncie, I do feel that they have the best interest of the modeling world at heart. Remember what is good for those of us who are only interested in scale rc models, is not necessarialy good for those who only fly park flyers, or combat etc.

I have been participating in this hobby for more years than some of you have been alive. I do not profess to have all the answers, but, I guarentee you all that you don't have all the answers as well. What we need to do is elect the best people for the job, and allow them to do that job. Then we need to stand with them when the decisions are made, and realize that these decisions are made, not for our personal satisfaction, but rather for the good of this hobby and all the different facets that this hobby encompasses.

That's just my humble opinion, probably won't be yours.

I agree with you Hoss. I think its good to debate, and cotroversy and differences of opinions will always be here. The only thing I want to see left out is the personal attacks.
General attacks and remarks I view as just being part of a good debate. Even your "Freeloader" comment IMO would not be considered a personal attack since it did not single out one person. It is when you single one person out and smear that person or his mother just because he has a difference of opinion that IMO is wrong. When a person says something you don't agree with, there is nothing wrong with trying to swing them to your point of view, but we should do this with facts, and respectful debate. I also understand that it is hard to turn the other cheek when someone initiates a personal attack. I think a few more ground rules should be set if nothing else and then moderated. I would only ask that two rules be added. Don't make a personal comment towards a single RCU Member that could be viewed as degrading. I actually view flaming as acceptable as long as you are not degrading someone in the process of roasting them. Verbal attacks against elected officials within AMA will always be fair game, since they are elected officials and subject themselves to scrunity when they run for a position. My other thing would be not to disrespect someone elses home. I take great offence when someone says something about my home state that is uncalled for. We are by a majority mostly all Americans, and should view each other as a fellow Americans.

I agree with this, except for I have a lot of stuff regarding someone's ethics and I would want to use that when I feel it's time. I guess this would be considered roasting, but would it be considered fair?

50%

Roasting someones ideas is completely fair! As long as a person is attacking the context of message and not the messenger, I personally have no problem with that. For Example: If I make a statement like, "all cars should be blue." It would be perfectly acceptable for you to reply, "That is the absolute dumbest most ignorant idea I have ever heard". The key here is you did not say I was ignorant, you just stated that my ideawas ignorant and dumb. Totally exceptable! Another Example: If I say " All flyers should be allowed to fly over the pits", you should be able to come back with a Flame and say "anyone who flys over the pits is a danger to himself and his fellow club members, and is basically not to bright." The keyword to your reply is "anyone". You did not come back and reply "ckangaroo70, you are a complete idiot!" By not directing your reply towards any one single person, you have not made a personal attack! Basically my idea is not to make things personal. Flame another guys ideas, argue till your blue in the face, but resist thee urge to strike out against him or her personally!

That'll never work! I've tried to do exactly what you said many times with my buddy Chuck, but he always takes it as personal and that I'm attacking him 1 on 1, when I'm only trying to debate the concept of his post and not him personally. There is such a fine line between a roast and an attack that each time a post like that occurs the discussion will always lean towards whether or not it was a roast or personal. Too many male egos at stake on that one.

Would love to have a subforum "Non-AMA Flyers" to put it in, but we keep getting told we dont need one. Is RCU a subsidiary of AMA, or some other reason Pro-AMA is fine to discuss, but we should be forced to leave the board to talk Contra-AMA ideas?

Get an non-ama subforum, and just Moderate the hatemail to there. "This thread has been moved to the subforum due to Controversial Subject, xxx&ooo, the Mod." or "Post deleted, not Forum Subject." You AMA guys wont have to put up with people not loving the AMA, and the non-AMA guys could talk about StreetFlying Rocketshooting Spads OnFire without getting an earfull of AMA rules against it or how wonderfull the AMA is. No hate in the AMA forum by non-ama'ers, no hate from AMAers in the subforum.... unless AMAers go into there just to stir things up.

--- I am soooo tempted to start a StreetFlying Rocketshooting Flaming Spad thread just as a demonstration..... that, & it would be cool to see the pics guys post

You're kidding right? Every other forum but the AMA forum is essentially discussion about "other then the AMA" forum. Also there are already "other then" forums like The Clubhouse and a couple others like Off Topic.

Are you really trying to say you want a thread for people opposed to the AMA? If so, a forum like that serves no service to the community at all. If we do create a forum for discussion against the AMA that means we'll have to create a forum for people opposed to flying RC airplanes. I mean they just cause just way too much noise and are dangerous. RC cars same ... noisy, annoying and boring little things. Boats ... rather watch grass grow then drive and RC boat.

It's already here, Ray. Look just above the post/reply block.

>>>>>>>>Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post. We encourage the free flow of your ideas, but believe that they can be communicated (and received) much more effectively if you keep things civil. If you have to vent, take it offline. We carefully monitor posts and will ban individuals who engage in offensive conduct within the forums. Thanks. (RCU Policies)<<<<<<<<


IMO that covers it all. It is very difficult to comply with, especially when some question/statement is fully reviewed / covered / etc., just two posts above.

In addition you use the term "...uncalled for." As 50% plane stated above, there are times various ethics are demonstrated and they may just make me feel like it's time for a "Call-Out". What really determines "uncalled for"?

I don't see any real requirement for additional rules other than the one RCU posts.

You're saying people misunderstand you? Tell me, in what way are the following comments, from you, roasting someone's ideas instead of the person?
"Thread starter, some of the users on this forum never have any logic, they just spout out useless comments..."

"Sorry buddy, but you are totally clueless and you live in a tiny world..."

Poxy

You have a bit of a point I guess. Maybe this forum should just be deleted altogether...if AMA desires a Pro AMA forum then they should provide one. I find it about equally counter productive, to the hobby in general, whether it be a pro AMA post or a con AMA post for the most part.

"AMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity."

Sounds great… but all too often AMAers take on this is that the hobby is only for paying and therefore responsible AMAers.

I support the AMA to the extent it promotes the hobby for all regardless whether they belong to the AMA or not. In my mind the AMA has discharged its duty when there is a flying site for everyone in every community, the model aeronautic hobby is the number one pastime, and AMA no longer exists and is only a memory. Sorta like NRA...when the right to bear arms and defend oneself is no longer in a defensive position the NRA has done its job.

I could not be any happier that “freeloaders� might benefit incidentally from AMA or NRA efforts.

[quote]ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Poxy

You have a bit of a point I guess. Maybe this forum should just be deleted altogether...if I think the AMA haveing there own forum is a good idea and AMA staff should
moderate the forum and provide answers.
as for the forum on RCU i think it is fine the way it is. people should be able to post
whatever they want pro or con as long as the personal attacks or left off.

also i think if someone makes a post you dont agree with its ok to respond once
after that just let it be dont try to discredit them or make them look stupid just
move on.

The only trouble with AMA having there own forum is that it would be over moderated. Besides owning a bunch of Model Airplanes, I also own a couple RC Monster Trucks. I used to post every once in awhile at the Traxxas forum on the companys website. Problem is that you had to be extremely careful what you would say or they would ban you in a heart beat! Its bad for there business to have lots of negative post. It would be the same for the AMA. People doing research about the AMA would instantly be turned off if they came across a forum on the AMA website because it would be filled with negative talk. RCU does a pretty good of letting people have there say, and this is a good thing. My only real gripe is the personal attacks. The debating and bickering is fine by me as long as it is in regards to the subject of the thread.

Hoss

I have used the block feature a few times, but if I blocked every person who has made a personal attack, I would be asking and answering my own post because there would be nobody else to chat with!LOL There are a couple Trolls that I do block, but there are alot of people who really have some good things to say that I would not want to miss there post even if they do slip every once in awhile by lashing out at someone personally. Heck I would have to block myself, because I have been guilty a few times of lashing back with a personal attack. Those ones I attacked personally are the ones on my block list to prevent further slip ups by me. Take yourself for example. Sometimes I think you can be pretty harsh, but you always seem pretty well informed, and 7 out of 10 times I might agree with what you say. My point is I really don't want to block somebody just because they might be a little harsh at times, especially when the majority of the time they are just fine and add alot to the debate or conversation. Constant trollers are the ones who make my block list.

Well there is one that slid by, any others? You've pointed out practically every post I made to you was an insult. Please provide them all ... I like to learn from my mistakes.

. Having run and moderate 2 manufacturer support forums on RCU, OMP and AeroflyPro, I can tell you right now it's not fun. So many customers have tried to use RCU to threaten that they would trash talk us on our support forum if they didn't get what they "demanded". I just cant imagine the AMA having there own support forum, seeing that so many people think they can demand answers to their problems. It would get real ugly.

If people(these"freeloaders") did to the AMA forum what you did to all the G3 threads,(before RCU took some action) things might get interesting. Ok, the would and RCU would have a constant mess to deal with. Anyways, I'm on www.flyinggiants.com watching the ETOC. Ya'll might enjoy seeing expensive pieces of foam float by.


50%

"Practically every post"? Why do you have to exaggerate? There are many more examples. Go read your own posts, perhaps you'll start seeing what others see. Meanwhile, even in this thread you're providing a perfect example of why this poll was started.

The measure of a man's intelligence is in direct proportion to the extent that his point of view agrees with yours.

BTW It seems to me that choices #2 and #3 of the poll are actually the same choice...

Sorry ray, guess my 'transmitter' "glitched" the signal and your 'receiver' skipped a couple beats. [8D]

On my 'confuser' there is a 'fast reply' or a reply TEXT BOX when I am preparing a message. Above that 'text box' is the rule that I quoted using the arrows >>>> "πr²" "Oh no-no, pie are round, cornbread are square" [:-]<<<< rather than the quote code box.

My communication was that RCU's rule stated above the text box is enough rule to satisfy the equation for me. No more rules needed. I never block anyone's post regardless of whatever. Sometimes it's interesting to try to determine how the other guy thinks or does not think as the case may be.

And right on cue, it took waiting all of 1 post to get shot down again
Would that be No Service to the AMA community, or just maybe it would serve the Non-AMA community you seem to be trying to disavow existence of. All told, since you, STL, don't seem to be interested in Contra-AMA thought exchange, you probably wouldn't want to bother going into the Non-AMA Forum.... which makes me wonder why you would care at all about a forum you wouldnt be part of? I have no interest in Traxx, so I dont go in the Traxx forums... and I dont care what they do in there. Do they gripe about Streetflyers... Flame the foamies... bash the Bipes? Dunno, don't read, dont care, dont get upset. If they do, so what.


LilCrank- The diff is the NRA doesn't want all shooting feilds in america to require NRA membership & payoff - The NRA is happy to have people free to shoot wheather NRA or not. Example- NRA supports CMP, but CMP doesn't require NRA membership. But this is digression from topic