Whew, no more frills!!! Well, they can't charge for the mag or loose their tax exempt status. They may be charging for the postage to mail it to us next though [sm=punching.gif]

Well, the doo-dad sales were up by about $18K for '05 (per the EVP report in Aug '06 MA). Costs for that enterprise were up by $4K. So, it appears that the big sales campaign netted $14K, less what the 32 page ad cost. Not bad really, as they surely pay less than any other advertiser, and I believe Hoss when he says the latter are paying below market rates. They are in the black, but there is a lot of red in the bigger pot.

I smell smoke coming from this red herring tossed on the BBQ. MA advertising revenue was up about half of the increase in direct costs for the mag, leaving the numbers going further south to the tune of about $80K for '05. Not a good thing, but it pales in comparison to an increase in AMA operating expenses of $800K over '04. The net AMA operating deficit in '04 was about $273K, or 3% in excess of income. For '05 the net deficit is over $1 mil (11%).

The new fees for Contest Calendar listings aren't going to do much triage on a $1 M+ hemorrhage. I think you know what's coming next.

Beware of Greeks bearing 180.

Abel

If I am late answering questions here, it's because I am in summer quarters, Crystal Falls MI, about 35 mi north of Iron Mountain in the Upper Penn. I don't often pull out the Lap Top and do stuff here.

I have received TWO answers to the question from those so addressed:
----------
#1 " Horrace you addressed this email to both Dave & I. Since Dave is the higher of the two I will wait and see what he has to say to respond. "

#2 "Hi Horrace,
Where did you see this on our site? This wasn't my understanding of the change. My understanding was that there would continue to be a free listing, albeit maybe limited, in the contest calendar but that we were increasing the price a bit for "camera ready" box ads.

As for the committee (//snip//), first the name should be more along the lines of "Membership Development Committee" and the issues we will focus on are broader than just addressing our numbers problem. It's not simply a committee to study the loss of membership. We don't need to study that. We recognize that's an issue. We've got some ideas and are already beginning to move on some of them. The direction I'd like to take us involves a focus on promoting model aviation, improving member perception, and enhancing some of the benefits we already provide to make them a more valuable benefit of membership.

I know you have an interest in some of the above. Want to pitch you ideas to me? Give me a number and a good time to call. Friday afternoons through the weekend are usually bad times for me because I'm traveling. Any other time works."
----------
So that is the progress so far.

Big Dave has not replied. I hope he is getting to the root of why the staff has taken what may be a big liberty with a previous discussion -- PURE SPECULATION on my part; not good at the bank!

However note one individual is waiting on Dave's reply. Another individual did not know the item was already published in the magazine.

In addition his concept of the committee is different than the posted MOTION.[:-] Maybe he was not paying attention this past Jul. 16 at the EC meeting:

>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;
"Motion I: Moved by R. Hanson (X) and seconded by D. Mathewson (II) that the President create a committee to deal with the loss of membership. This committee will receive funding of $15,000.
Motion passed unanimously.
<<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;

OR the minutes are made to conform to specific directives. It would not be the first time official minutes were rewritten to say things differently than actually happened and/or stated.


For those that think the charging for listings will assist AMA to make a profit from the magazine, my response to such cannot be stated here. [>:]

My response to replier #2 above :

>>>>>>>>>>>
"http://www.modelaircraft.org/mag/AUG06/onthefly.htm

Aug issue of MA. On line "In the Air" the AMA news section.

Personally, it would be much better to just list the events for -- say 2 months -- the MA issue date and the following month, but to charge for a text listing for a sanctioned event -- will cost AMA a lot more than it saves. For my events I mail out 20 to 40 announcements anyway at MY cost. So do most of the other Jetero CDs.
In the future that $20 sanction fee will just help me pay for those mailings. No need to have a "sanction."

Jetero has hosted 4 major events this year with 3 more to happen. 27 pilot Competition Fun Fly, Feb. -- mine -- , a 54 pilot Anniversary Fly-In -- March, 40 pilot +/- IMAC event -- April, 32 Pilot Pattern -- June, and yet to come: WarBird Weekend, Sep. -- mine but will be changed to a NEW CD in early Sep, RCCA Regional Points Event in Nov. and a Night Fly also in Nov.

Lots of activity from this club. Wanna' bet they will follow my lead within a short time?
<<<<<<<<<<

Kurek and DB are charging the wrong people. However IMO that is just another step to what is really planned for AMA in the next few years.

BTW, Little Crankshaf, you asked who WE is. The article is signed by "MA—AMA Competitions/Technical Department "

When EC members will not respnd and/or don't know what they did, then how could anyone have any idea just who is doing what? I HAVE BEEN PREACHING FOR 4 YEARS THAT NO ONE IN THE AMA EC IS MINDING THE STORE. In addition the MEMBERSHIP is definitely NOT minding much of anything.

Thanks anyway hoss fly for the info but it became obvious when I was directed to the exact origin by Mike. I think a little chat with the other Dave is in order and a good idea for you to follow through with. I believe he will let you rattle on to no end.

It sure would have been nice if your initial invective would have illuminated the exact source of info tho. From the way you portrayed the info it appeared to be an iron clad directive to us instead of a possible misunderstanding by "MA—AMA Competitions/Technical Department " Maybe you should get all your facts straight before you troll around here and stir s*it.

It's quite possible another magazine will pick up the event listings. It's happened before or at least was offered to the AMA.

Most of you probably don't remember this but before the AMA bought American Aircraft Modeler (AKA Model Aviation), RC Modeler offered to print ALL of the AMA business for FREE!!

The AMA refused the FREE offer, secure in the knowledge that they could make a profit with their own magazine.

Perhaps another magazine will step up or maybe the AMA will buy another magazine to make even more money!

You dont think MA ($1mil in, $2 mil out) can be fixed with a couple dozen grand from Contest Listing Fees?

It seems kinda ludicrous to try to charge the members some pittance, then overspend like they were the government or some bust-ready DotCom. I cant carry on the charade that I like the fees anymore. I've said it over & over:
The tax required mailings can be a simple xerox page or two(maybe even a postcard), make MA sink or swim without welfare from the membership dues.... you know, save that $1million in red ink to float MA.

Personally I think it's a move in the right direction to get a stronger presence on the website. This trick is nothing new and the AMA did not invent the idea. Many magazines that are going south to force people to move over to the web based/lower cost version of a more profitable magazine with tricks just like this. Again, smart marketing for a lower cost future. The more traffic they get to the website the more profitable the AMA will become. They just need to add more gizmos and whistles to the website to make it more interesting. I bet anything that the EC did not come up with this idea as it was Muncie.

Don't fret the idea. I mean it's not like you guys don't complain everyday just how much you hate the MA. Great, if you want to know where the events are and have them listed for free, look no further then the website. It's not like a single one of you don't have an Internet connection. Once again, welcome to the year 2006.

I had a nice chit chat with Jay Mealy and he said that a whole bunch of new ideas were on the way and new idea like this one are in the right direction, smart. Some of you guys only see dollars and no sense.

Sorry 'bout that "lcs", it is one of my most terrible repeated mistakes. I just seem to always keep giving credit where no credit is due. I thought one so well versed in all things, as you try to be, could easily go to a web-site and find such information without specific written instructions. When will I ever learn? OTOH, it seems that most others were able to do so. Hmmmm!

Although I have not received my MA from the forwarding in TX, yet the item is part of the ON-LINE portion of MA, I will predict that the item is published in your AUG MA. Since MA is the official news-line of the AMA for its membership, then its information constitutes adequate facts for me to either agree with or take the pseudo management of both/either the EC and the office staff to task.

Typical inexperienced marketing by those that have no experience outside the Harvard dream lands.

Interesting enough now for those with interest in aeromodeling. Now those that want to use piggy-backing AMA for their own selfish, commercial interests, well I suppose whistles and bells do attract that sort.

If I hated AMA, I would not praise the good and CRITIQUE the bad. The event listing in MA is a duty of the AMA.
Organized aeromodeling pays its way with REQUIRING AMA MEMBERSHIP at AMA Sanctioned Events, plus paying SANCTION FEES, plus providing those EVENTS that PROMOTE MODEL AVIATION THROUGHOUT THE USA and even the world.
Without our support, AMA will, as I have predicted, cease to exist as a member organization. The in--out Park-fliers and those that belong to AMA soley for having a place to fly, have no loyalty and will be gone as soon as they are able to do so. The same goes for the commercial interests not dedicated to the sport.

Screwing us dedicated modelers on the current continual basis will hasten that day. [sm=frown.gif]

Horsefly

So… apparently if you read it on the internet then you just consider it to be fact. Therefore, you can attribute the EC as r-ping its members by extension of the facts that you have derived… huh?

Hoss, you failed to give credit where credit was due in your original tirade. That is inescapable and such omissions are extremely suspect.

Since your open letter was sent the EC blaming them for the r-pe of its members instead of a letter asking for clarification or confirmation it is a prime example why Iand many others are so glad you ran from (quit) your position in the past and hopefully will never succeed in any run for another position in the future.

Do you have any idea how many companies have offered free website listings with paid print listings both NFP and Privates? THOUSANDS. Again, AMA did not invent the idea, they are riding the idea off the coattails of other successful print media ideas. Sometimes things change to move with the times, this is a move which many have done before the AMA decided to take it upon themselves.

Right, believe it or not right now you are discussing a conversation right here on yet another successful business model, RCUniverse.com, which is loaded with bells and whistles to attract RC enthusiasts. Commercial interests or and NFP trying to find methods of attracting more members? Either way one compliments the other one. It's a win win for all, for revenue streams and more memberships. Think about the future, not about the rest of your modeling life.

For me the future is the rest of my modeling life.

ST Pil., I could NOT care less about your concepts of business.

However news has arrived that someone may have jumped the gun a bit and the subject problem will be squelched. However I remain disappointed because if I were the AMA President, at least THREE AMA "ex - staffers" people would be in the UNEMPLOYMENT LINE this very day. [>:]

It's sad that the tail is now wagging the dog, and the EC just can't "git 'er done" and rid the staff of a few that think they own the place.

Yep, you did! So much for your facts.[:'(]

I doubt it will...you will probably just keep squealing.

Of course, as King for a day you would take every opportunity to negatively impact someone’s livelihood because of some misunderstanding. Thankfully, the chances are great you will not be beheading anyone today.

BTW… so much for your predictions as well.

Edited by reguest of bubbagates

aug MA page 164.

Technical foul, mongo. That's AMA News, and like who reads that? MA has it on p.12, near verbatum. Guess somebody thinks it's such good news it bears repeating.

Abel

i liked that one, cause it also told where to find it in the regular mag.

I believe if the AMA wants to SAVE $$$$ on MA they can do it in a much smarter manner.

Offer present members an "E" version only of the magazine. Provide a small incentive to the members in lew of a lower membership rate. If if costs the AMA (guessing) $12 a year per member to send the magazine save the member $8 on their dues. The AMA makes/saves $4 to go toward other things. This saves printing costs and mailing fees. HUGE SAVINGS to be had. Only if they could figure out the logistics of it. Not real hard but this orginaization has everyone renue membership at the same time. That's another piece of work that needs revamping.... I digress....

It's a good thing I don't use the AMA Rag to get my information on upcomming events.

MA doesn't have events listed till they are only 3 months out. The online calanders are good for up to a year in some cases. I typically plan all my event hopping from what I find online. I get it all figured out in March and if a club is slow getting there info to the AMA I get the info online first. The internet is going to eventually kill all magazines. It's just a matter of time....

So I say WHO CARES about MA fees. FWIW, I don't get my dates for events from the forums or the magazine, I get them from the District and AMA web sites.

Actually, it seems you are both right. It appears that putting the info on page 167 in the "Listing and ad Information" spot was not appropriate. Go figure…oh well. My bad!

Maybe it will hasten the inevitable some either way it goes off.

At this point I couldn't care less. Just another, in a long line of inconsistencies IMO.

No, I'm right and he's wrong. The guy flies helis, fercrisake! I think he might be a democrat too.

Abel

damn,,,,,
hard to type with all this blood streaming from the wound to my heart.......................................

democrat indeed<G>

Hey Jim, here is another item that I observed in the Aug. issue of MA. I have asked some questions and received answers only from the author of the article. He takes the responsibility for not making clear the item was performed outside the "Sanctioned Hours". However the article author is one of the good-guys and a little slip on his part, especially when he says he did so, certainly doesn't bother me.
Still in my mind those being paid to edit and present a magazine under AMA's rules should have caught this one big time.

In an email to the power-brokers I said:
>>>>
FIRST:
Great editorial by Bob Hunt, 2006 Aug MA
Sky will soon fall as I agree 101% with it all.

SECOND: (in answer to a kurek email)
rkurek: "We already have a solid working knowledge of the primary AMA safety code, typically printed in every issue of the magazine, and review the contents each month with this as a guideline."

Very good Rob. However I have another one for you. My magazine has caught up with me. If the event was NOT sanctioned, then disregard this item.

However using the circumstantial evidence: The event was published in MA, and the note of the CD being "patient and energetic", I am assuming it was.
Unable to research because the AMA Contest Calendar doesn't display that far back, the Members Only doesn't have the 2006 issues yet, and my library of magazines is still 1500 miles south of me.

Look at the very enjoyable and informative report of the "Flight Festival 2006" on page 27, Aug, 2006 MA: Turn to page 29 and view the F-86 picture, then read the caption with additional text on page 30, next-to-last paragraph.

Now with that "....solid working knowledge of the primary AMA safety code,..." YOU tell me what is wrong here. Par. 4 General of the SC if you need a clue.
<<<<

The article author quickly recognized the error and responded. He is an OK guy.

Those that have the "solid working knowledge" don't respond. The EC doesn't do anything about these attitudes and the resulting errors only grow and manifest into why the competition modelers are being given the run-around.

Here is my idea of an EC meeting and communication. Thanks to whomever made this card. No company name on it.

Well, aren't the members relieved to know that you'll never have the twisted pleasure of seeing your dream of firing those staffers come true. Seek counseling.

if California can fire a govenor mid term for doing a horrible job, why can't the AMA members fire some bad staff?


edit: how do I get so many spelling errors in a one line post?

That's also why term limits was added to the Constitution. When even the members who vote are as clueless as the people that run the show, at least a wind of change will, at the very least, take it's course ... eventually. Right now if you've been watching the news, the Castro boys are showing us how things works without term limits too.

When the EC recently voted against term limits it was nothing but a slap in the face to it's members, once again. Espeically during a time of constant downturn. No matter what they say or try to blame number drop on everything but themselves, failure always comes from leadership, not the average age of it's members. Would have been nice to see Dave M win last year, can't believe he didn't.

uh, staffers have term limits?
I had no idea the magazine staff even had terms, no less limits on how many.

I'm not really grooving on the Term Limit theory on why we cant fire staffers for faults in the magazine & running the mag $1m IN $2m OUT red. Is it really that the only reason the staffers cant be fire is because Hoss would like it, and we cant have that?

Put another way, just how bad does a staffer have to perform, how much money do they have to lose, how many errors in print, before they should get replaced with someone more competant?