Ken Erickson

What is needed by LittleCrankshaft is an uderstanding of the notion of a GROUP POLICY purchased by a MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION, which can be National in scope, and an INDIVIDUAL POLICY or COMMERCIAL POLICY (also individual, by the way), which are controlled by the individual States.

You must buy your insurance from entities licensed in your state. The Membership org can buy and cover all its members, no matter in what state they are.

I took the test and had the license.

Still, am not about to try to explain it any further here.

Ken Erickson, AMA 19352

littlecrankshaf

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Previous post... I think anyone could plainly see...maybe not:

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the premium paid by the AMA was all inclusive... that is to say does not differentiate costs based on individuals and clubs. According to DB, half the insurance payout is for claims against clubs.


Previous post

aeajr

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Bethpage is a state park, not County. They fly on the polo field. I think there are two clubs that use that one.

Nassau's third field is in Syosset/Woodbury Stillwell is the third field, which is where the Long Island Silent Flyers can be found. www.lisf.org. This is across from the High School on South Woods Road. the flying field is behind the sports fields.

This is a Glider and small electric field. No fuel permitted, except for this coming weekend when we will be sponsoring a large Aerotow. There will be 2-4 gas planes that will be towing up gliders with wing spands of 8-20 feet.

aeajr

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Ken, you are correct, but I think you will agree that insurance is a very challenging topic. I took the IIA, Insturance Institute of America, tests but would not presume that I could tell you the features of every policy held by every person in merica based on that knowledge.

Littlecrank, the payout ratio you cite may be correct, but it would be very wrong to assume that that maps directly to pay in or to assume that that accuratly reflects the expenses incurred to settle those claims. That is not how insurance works. If you want to understand the insurance, you should address your questions to the AMA.

I am not suggesting you are intentionally passing around bad information, but your lack of understanding of how the AMA operates and how insurance works has lead you to mistaken conclusions. It happens, especialy where insurnce is concerned. Every policy is different and until you have read the entire policy and ask the right questions.

Case in point is that you have suggested that the AMA should operate in certain ways. Are you surprised to learn that that is how the AMA works already?

Prehaps you have been reading too much about the AMA on the forums and not enough from the AMA. I think you will find this is a well thought out organiztion who's structure serves the membership very well. But like any organization, that does not mean it meeets the needs of everyone.

aeajr

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You want it, you got it!

Once again have confused what the AMA requires, what the clubs require and what local government requires.

The AMA does not restrict anyone to flying at any particular club. However any individual club has the right, within the bounds of civil law, to restrict who flies on its field. And local government rules may be the driving factor.

As stated above, our field requries AMA membership, County Permit and Club membership. The AMA does not require County Permits. The Club does not require Country permits, except that the land owner, the County, requires them. If they dropped the requirement, we would drop the requirement. They own the field so we have to follow their rules. AMA is not a factor in this requirement.

When I travel, I sometimes visit the local AMA club for a relaxed afternoon of flying. I have yet to be refused. And we often have AMA members come fly as guests at our field. We also have contests at our field where AMA members come in from all over the country to fly at our field. I just attended one in PA this past weekend. Had a wonderful time.

This weekend we have a big Aerotow event. AMA members from hundreds of miles away will be visiting our field to fly scale gliders that are towed into the sky by gas powered planes. It is a beautiful experience.

Littlecrank, sounds like the AMA is a great organization for you to join. It operates mostly the way you would like. It has most of the features you are looking for and it is all available today.

You can find the application, the FAQs and the list of clubs at this link:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/memberservices.asp

Welcome to the AMA. :-)

vtl1180ny

I know that since I live in POB, more the OB than the P since I can pretty much walk to the park... I know Whitman flyers is one club, I didn't know there were 2 clubs down there.

Can you post or PM me the info on the Aerotow. I may come down and be a spectator...

STLPilot

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Got directions? I'm in Port Jefferson.

aeajr

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Since the info it was requested, this weekend the Long Island Silent Flyers will be hosting an aerotow at our field. Directions and photos of the field can be found at www.lisf.org with links on the home page. We get people from all over the east coast and out to the great lakes.

If you have a scale glider, or any towable glider with a release mechanism, and wish to participate, let me know via PM. We should be able to handle planes to at least 5 meters and I think we have had larger. Our field is large enough, approximately 800X1600, to accomodate you and we should have tugs strong enough to tow you up. We fly off a grass strip which will be cust short for the event.

If you are coming to visit, we welcome you. If you want to fly your plane and have specific questions PM me. I am not one of the organizers but I will pass on the request.

You have to be a current AMA member to participate. Be sure to bring your AMA card or you won't be able to fly.

Our weekend weather forecast can be found here. Right now the weekend looks good.
http://www.weather.com/weather/weeke...nav_undeclared

We should be able to fly in winds up to 15 mph with no problems. Usually passing light rain will not shut down the event but you can check with us if the forecast turns to heavy rain.

Sorry to hijack the thread. Let's keep any other discussion around this on a PM basis. I will not respond to inquiries on the topic in this thread.

Hossfly

To aeajr: You are a patient and good person, however you are trying to assist one that has no intention of being assisted. Yet, the best of luck to you in such endeavors, and your comments are educational to those that really care to become better informed.

Lcs, many people belong to "Homeowners Associations" in the area in which they live and own their homes. However that does not give the next door neighbor or anyone else within the HO Association's area to enter any individual's personal home/property. In that text, just because you may belong to the overall "big club" of AMA, you have no rights at my club which owns its property, built and continues to build its facility, and pays its real estate taxes. You will be permitted there based solely on the options of the Club.
Whether the host club is the over-seer by lease, rent, mutual agreement or whatever that club is in control as YOU are in your own home and as much as they would love to do so, the government cannot dictate just who you will invite there. Same applies to AMA and the Charter Clubs.
Now lcs, you already know that so to continue to argue such is ludicrous and a sign that your objective is not for just that which you argue.

Informational: http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/2006clubkit.pdf

Academy of Model Aeronautics
5161 E. Memorial Drive Muncie IN 47302 • [email protected]
(765) 287-1256 • Fax (765) 741-0057
2006 Club Chartering Remittance Sheet

Name of officer completing this form

Club No.

ITEM
1) BASIC CHARTER (all clubs MUST pay the basic fee)
2) Certificate of Insurance for flying site owners
Regular wording $60
(Completed application forms or computerized
Insurance Summary Form MUST be enclosed.)
Special wording $80
(Completed application forms or computerized
Insurance Summary Form MUST be enclosed.)
Dated
(Available for insurance certificates that are for a
specific date ONLY. Completed application forms
MUST be enclosed.)
Regular wording $20
Special wording $30
3) Patch — top portion of Chartered Club officer patch

Total Enclosed
Payment Type: Check MasterCard VISA
Credit Card __ __ __ __ - __ __ __ __ - __ __ __ __ - __ __ __ __ Exp. date ____ / ____
Cardholder’s Signature __________________________________________________ ____
NOTE: Attach check or money order payable to AMA, ONLY for the amount shown on this form.
Please mail applications for membership separately to AMA Headquarters, Attn: Membership Department.
3
@ $60.00 =
@ $80.00 =
@ $20.00 =
@ $30.00 =
@ $2.00 =
Subtotal =




LIABILITY INSURANCE AND MORE!
1. TO PROTECT THE CLUB. Liability coverage for individual AMA members does not extend to a club which is sued as a unit. Without liability coverage a club’s assets (financial and/or physical) may be lost, and a club may find itself without means to defend a suit. As an AMA chartered club, however, your club acquires valuable protection against these risks as specifically provided for under the AMA’s liability insurance policies.

2. TO PROVIDE BROADER PROTECTION. Liability insurance provided to clubs does not just cover accidents caused by flying models. From experience, AMA appreciates that a club can also be sued for non-flying accidents which may occur at its flying field, meeting site, or event. Such accidents may be caused by a club member, spectator, or someone else while acting on behalf of the club and may arise from a fall or other non-flying activities. For this reason, liability coverage for AMA chartered clubs extends to claims arising from model flying accidents as well as non-flying accidents.

3. TO PROTECT THE FLYING SITE OWNER. To a property owner who is approached for a flying site, the concern is not whether the club is protected, the concern is for self-protection. Being able to provide the property owner with a certificate naming the owner as “additional insured” usually results in property use being granted. Coverage is primary for flying site owners and event sponsors that are so designated through an additional insured certificate.

4. TO RECEIVE FLYING SITE AID. Chartered club status also facilitates flying site usage through:
• Full time Headquarters service.
• Free copy of AMA’s book entitled Getting and Keeping Flying Sites.
• Documentary support for site search.
• Endorsements and sample proposals.
• Videotape available to support flying site requests and negotiations.
• Application for site grants or Disaster Relief fund.

aeajr

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Of course you are right. I recognized that a while ago, but felt the effort was worth it just for the reason you mention.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Where did either one of you get the idea anyone other than STL, asking for directions, desired assistance. I sure haven't asked for any and neither of you have offered any real assistance anyway. Just the same old song… but a different verse.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Yes, the truth does sound the same each time it is spoken. I am glad you recognize it.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Anything can be accepted as a truth if repeated enough. History is full of examples of people’s adherence to false truths. Actually… more often than not that is the case. Keep singing.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

BTW don't you have somewhere to go and be moderate? Taking a side in any forum, especially this one is bad form.

vtl1180ny

Being retired from the public service industry I can tell you that most people don't want to be helped, you can try all you want...