Does anyone know if you can or how to get a field gets approved by the AMA
I may have a line on 80 acres and was wondering if I could get it under AMA insurance even though it won't be open to membership
thanks

Get 4 more AMA guys, charter a club as the 5 of you,
Grant Free Lifetime meberships to you 5,
Raise the Anual Dues of your club to $28.5million dollars (& $25 initiation),
Have no Guest Flyer program or charge guest flyers $250 a day.

you are covered no matter where you fly as long as you follow the saftey code rule 3 is the most important

There are guidelines in the AMA documents as to what they consider a resonably safe layout for a field. but as stated above all they do is charter clubs they don't appove anything.

Like Tim said
If you are a AMA member, you are covered while flying on your property as long as you follow the Safety Code. You dont have to insure the feild as a property owner if you are insured as the pilot. And once you show anyone that cares the $2.5mil insurance the pilot has, they will forget all about going after the cash strapped property owner. Tunips & Blood, or a nice fat insurance claim.

But as some city folks will shout, you would probably have homeowners insurance on the land, and that will get hit first. So there is an interesting situation, the homeowner insurance must pay first, then the AMA will kick in. AFIK, the AMA insurance wont go up if you have an AMA claim on it, but we all know what happens to you own insurance when you have claims. Maybe you should get the Homeowners to exclude RC Planes, then you can have No Primary and $2.5mil seconday that wont hike rates.

I prefer the Lotto Ticket method myself.

Most us city slickers know the difference between home owners insurance and property insurance.

Property insurance doesn't carry the same protection as home owners insurance unless you include a rider or a peril. Homeowners covers much more, which includes general liability, and you can't just decide to put homeowners on a piece of land, it's for a home, hence the "home"owners. In the case of the property insurance, I'm pretty sure you would need to include a peril which names the event or activity you wish to partake on that land for protection.

But hey, what do us city folk know anyhoo. But I'm only from PA, still a top 10 IQ state, but if you really want to be sure ask someone from CT, those guys are brilliant.

Maybe the north has a high IQ. In fact they probably invented the test, but here in the south, it's not how much you think, but the quatlity of those thoughts. We don't need much money either. What a bundle of money and a lawyer can get ya up north, a gun will git you down here.[X(](much cheaper that way)


Skiman, good luck with the field!

Uss rednecks know that most farms include property insurance that includes the farmhouse and barn. Only stuupid yanks will buy the wrong property insurance for a house.

I guess Yanks insure their home, and then they insure their property off somewheres,
Down south, we insure ranches. And most texans will tell you that the have a ranch even if all they have is hay & onions.

Whats a ranch in NYC, 1.3ac? No wonder they like Foamies,FF, & 3D.



Point being, if the land owner purposly gets RC excluded from his insurance, then the Pilot's AMA secondary will be the one hit rather than trying to squeeze cash from the prop owner. Deep Pockets can work for you sometimes, $2.5mil AMA Ins is deeper than you.

kid where did you get the avatar that bazooka is hilarious

years ago at a Varmint Hunting site.

Protective Garments for Varmints: Self reseting targets ... and
When the Targets Rise up in Rebellion.

Cant remember the site now, though

City Slickers on Long Island??? I ain't no city slicker, matter of fact if they leveled NYC and built Tree's I'd be thrilled!!!!

Here on LawnGuyland your home is worth nothing compared to the piece of dirt it's sitting on....

BTW.... I loathe the Yankee's!!!!

The AMA CHARTERS clubs (5 or more AMA members).
The AMA SANCTIONS events.
The AMA RECOMMENDS field layouts.

As long as you're following the AMA Safety Code, no matter where you fly, the insurance covers.

Dr.1

OH yeah! Hey, I bet that some of them and you even believe Ken Lay is really dead. His legal team is now trying to get some judges to wipe Lay's record clean. Then with a clean record, the government can no longer pursue claims to his millions, and Lay can return to the states, along with his money, and do unto others all over again. OTOH maybe he will have a good heart and help AMA buy a few more fields.

SURELY HE WILL! [:@]

I am also a Long Island boy. While this isn't "THE" city, Nassau County would sure look like city to someone from farm and ranch country.

As to the insurance an flying site. I agree with the comments above. Unless the landowner is looking for added insurance for the site, your AMA insurance will cover you. It will not cover him, so if he were liable for something he would have to take you to court to get anything out of your AMA insurance. Site insurance, which is what the clubs usually have, is what protects the property owner, if it is not you.

As stated earlier, find 4 guys and form a club if the land owner insists on insturance to protect him.

Many assume the AMA insurance we get with our membership is more than it really is. Everyone likes to throw that 2.5 million number out there but that is really misleading. Stepping onto a flying site without your own health coverage is taking a big chance. Everyone thinks crashing your plane into another person is the worst case scenario but it is a very rare occurance. Injuring yourself is very common and the insurance provided with our membership only covers 20 grand which gets eaten up very fast.

the tough part is getting the insurance to write a Personal Injury check to your Vet buddy for cheap Hand-In-Prop stitches

AMA is "excess" or secondary insurance. ( I used to work for Allstate ) It kicks in after all other forms are exhusted. This is a normal and common approach.

Your personal healthcare, your auto, your homeowners are all typical primary insurance. They are your first line of defense. AMA sits behind them to provide additional coverage should those not be enough.

It works something like the back-up chute for a sky diver. You NEVER expect to use it, but no jump pilot will let you in the plane without it and only a fool jumps without a back-up chute.

If you have nothing in your life worth protecting, then insurance seems such a bother. I have a wife and kids and a home and personal property as well as my health and the well being of those who might be injured by my actions. Since I have a LOT to protect, I want that extra coverage. And since the AMA coverage is know and understood by local governments, it buys me acceptance on top of coverage.

aeajr,


Great post. Your summation of AMA's intents and benefits are generally accepted and therefore so is the rational that perpetuates that widely held philosophy.

The only quandary is the fact... as you say... "it buys me acceptance on top of coverage". Of course, you could buy yourself a PUP... that would cost you a few more bucks...but isn't all those things you mentioned worth it? Sure they are!

The real issue becomes the acceptance aspect.

All too often, in this forum, the main theme of the staunch AMA defense team is “everyone should pay their fair share”. Well that is fine and well but how is $58 fair to a modeler that flies rubber powered free flight when compared to a jet jock flying a 200 mph $15,000 model? Therein lays the point of contention in my mind. It has been discussed to no end in this forum about a tiered system and the complexities that make it not feasible.

So what would be an alternative answer? Event and site insurance costs could be at the producer or club level instead of essentially at a collective membership level. Then AMA memberships at large would not be a basis to fund the entire liability exposure. Each and every flying site could have insurance dependant on use type, location, and experience quotient. Nothing new here…basic and standard for most intents and purposes in the insurance world. AMA memberships could then reflect a due structure in keeping with a real individual need basis, therefore opening the door for growth, especially the park flying crowd.

It is even conceivable that the strategy could be turned around so that it is the collective fees from clubs and events might help fund the membership benefits that would have the effect of promoting the hobby to magnitudes only imagined before.

One of the things that always strikes me as odd is the fact, that collectively AMA members help clubs to acquire flying fields with the implied “acceptance” theory but most clubs return the thank you to those members by severely limiting their use of the field they acquired. Wait… I know what you are thinking! Just why should a club just open its gates to any AMA member? Well… they shouldn’t…unless the precepts of “all for one and one for all” is the mantra… they should have any limits they desire but by the same token they (the club) should not rely on others to insure their particular endeavor either.

In the current system clubs do get a free ride, comparatively speaking. A few more bucks more and an individual member would pay what a club is charged for its charter.

In the end, in this alternate concept model type, the club could have absolute control of its membership, AMA members or not, and decide for it’s self just what it desires within the constraint it adheres to.

Seems I am a bit confused by your post so let me ask/answer what I can and we can become more clear.

PUP? Personal Umbrella Policy????

I have one actually. Costs me a LOT more than the AMA membership for a lot less coverage and the local government agencies will NOT accept it as meeting the insurance requirement where I live.

I understand your point but have no real answer other than to say that, as I understand it, the difference would be about $8. I am no authority so please don't take anything I say as AMA speaking. This is just what I believe to be the case.


That is how it is done now. So they are already doing what you suggest, again, as I understand it.

Can you suggest an insurance carrier that will offer such a policy? AMA buys insurance just like you and I. They are not an insurance company. We get the benefit of very low premiums based on the group buy.

To the extent that AMA collects any fees, that is how it works now, as I understand it.

You somehow see the concept of the club as separate from the members. The members are the club. If the club restricts the members it is because the members voted it to be that way. The club has no power or authority over members unless the members grant it. Members acquire a field for themslves and form a club to help obtain insurance and create a group method for funding and managing the field.

I have no idea what this means

Again, I don't understand what this means

This is exactly how it works today. The club exists because the members wish it to exist. The control afforded to the club is given to the club by the members. As the members establish the rules, so they are governed by them.

Seems you have defined how an AMA club works.

aeajr,

I apologize for my poorly conveyed message. I seem to always have people misunderstand my intent or message. I will try again.

As it stands now all AMA members contribute to a pool that works to offset direct costs of insurance to clubs. Reportedly about half of the AMA members do not belong to a club at all. Also at this time all club members must be AMA members.

The alternate AMA hypothetical operating strategy I have so poorly tried to convey would be quite different. In this alternate reality, clubs would have to burden the whole costs of chartering and site insurance depending on their unique needs. Also they would be allowed to have non-AMA members if desired.

In this alternate strategy it might be possible to allow some clubs to utilize city parks in partnership with the city and reap reduced costs since city parks do have their own insurance that could be used to some extent.

Thanks for the further explaination. I believe you are mistaken about the funding of insurance. What you would like to have is is basically how it works today.

AMA chartered clubs pay "club site insrance" which is separate from individual AMA membership. So what you suggested is what exists today. My AMA membership includes personal liability insturance and medical insurance to cover only me and has NOTHING to do with insuring the club or the site or the land owner.

The site insurance that club buy, as a club, covers the club and usually the land owner, if I understand the coverage correctly. This is paid for separately, out of club membership dues. When you pay your $25 or $200 cub membership dues, some of that money goes to pay for the club's insurance. So individual AMA members are NOT paying for site insurance as part of their annual AMA membership.

What you asked for is what you get today.

As for utilizing city parks in partnership with local governments, that is EXACTLY how many AMA clubs get their field. My AMA chartered club uses a Nassau County park as our flying field, in cooperation with the County. Our cost for the field is small so our membership dues are small. The COUNTY mandates that the club have AMA site insurance and that all members be AMA members. In addition they require that anyone using the flying field have a Nassau County flying permit. Again, this is a County requirement not an AMA or a club requirement.

Nassau County has 3 flying fields which are the home of about 5 AMA clubs.

Now, if the County did not mandate the AMA component, we could form a non-AMA club if we wanted, obtain club/site insurance from Allstate, or Geico or someone who offers something like that, and not require the members to be AMA members or have any kind of insurance. If the land owner is good with that, why not? While I very much favor the AMA approach, there is nothing from keeping you or anyone else from following an alternate path. I am sure there are lots of flying clubs our there that are not AMA clubs.

My point is that 90% of what you asked for already exists and is exactly how it works today. The other details are about whether we are talking about rose red, bright red or apple red. Shades of the same thing.

I hope I have been able to clarify these points. What you want is pretty close to what exists today.

Cedar Creek, Bethpage and Pt Washington?????

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the premium paid by the AMA was all inclusive... that is to say does not differentiate costs based on individuals and clubs. According to DB, half the insurance payout is for claims against clubs. Ergo, clubs should be paying half of the total insurance bill, including what is paid out by AMA under the $250K SIR terms and the cost of admin.
Do you think ~2200 clubs pay as much for insurance as 150K members? A collective pool, if you will. At any rate, if I understand correctly, all clubs by the same fees regardless of size or exposures to risk. If my assumptions are/were true, then the differences would be great.

Another strategy yet, could make all AMA members authorized to use any AMA club field as we are “one big club”. I find it very funny the dichotomy, whenever the point benefits a particular position it is asserted “well, we (the AMA) are a club” but conversely when the point benefits another view “we are separate clubs and can do as we wish”.

BTW I have never stated I am a proponent of an alternate AMA. I only wish that it becomes apparent there could be other ways. I am not asking for anything other than contemplation. No need to be defensive.

that is an interesting point
the club I'm in has grown fanatsticly in the past few years, to the point some officers are citing Growing Pains for a few difficulties. Would it have the same insurance payment, or does a 200member club pay more for ClubInsurance than a 22 member club? Kinda in lines with gtting 3 or 4 family members driving the 1 family car, costing a lot more than just 1 driver? More folks = more activity at the regular accident rate %.