In the past the Omahawks set up was that you had have proof of insurance to fly, as mandated by the county since they fly on park property. In the past that proof of insurance could be what you get as a benefit with AMA membership, or another policy (homeowner's, etc.). It appears (I don't know) they also paid for an insurance policy to cover the field owner (ie the county).


I still wonder why they decided to change a system that had worked for such a long period.

It is not that way at all.

yes
did not


sure

The real reason?
The omahhawks newsletter July 06 explained it.
[link=http://www.omahawks.org/pdf/hawktalk/2006/HT200607.pdf]http://www.omahawks.org/pdf/hawktalk/2006/HT200607.pdf[/link]







As for flying around STL's place, wasnt STL getting Central Park opened up for flying?

"It is not that way at all."

Well actually it is, ANY insurance carrier will require some type of control. Whether it's a check flight, or some other type of proof, and if you don't have it, you don't fly. Even if the proof is a person's home owners, if its required then its not really "open to the public"


"did not " Umm again you did allude to just anyone being able to show up and fly or at the very least thats what your idea of how things should be is. See below

"I would have thought since its inception in 1936 the AMA could have found a way to directly promote the hobby to the extent that a flying field would be available in some locals that does not require the mark of AMA to fly. BTW I don’t care to here the club crap trap. A few urban flying sites open to the general public, would give credence to “We, the members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics, are the pathway to the future of modeling and are committed to making modeling the foremost sport/hobby in the world.” "

Also in this paragraph.
"Show me some proof that AMA…do not deflect back to the separate club crap…has made any effort or was indeed successful in installing a flying site for general use by the public. Only efforts I have seen are self serving promotionally based."

I'm afraid that any site that is being controlled to any degree (meaning they carry insurance on the members) will require something to be able to fly there. It's the only way they can viably be covered by an insurance program.

I realize that someone could show up when no one was there and fly, but the point is would they be covered...simple answer no.

So again help me undertsand, exactly how are these folks in worse shape? I get the fact that anything beyond a one word answer requires not only thought but the need to commit oneself to a statement...but please, humor me.

Since we dont have a copy of the quote for the Local Insurance Co that was the alternative to the insurance co they did vote in (yeah, I did just call AMA an insurance co again nyeh! ), we really cant say what the are missing out on. But we can speculate that if it were some company like alstate, would that coverage be denied in certain member vs member claims as the exclusion ama insurance has... as pondered by SoCalGG.

We cannot say for certain the benefits of the policy we havent seen. We dont even know if there actually was a quote given, or if the membership was bamboozled into voting prior to even getting a competitive bid.






edit: horrible typing... just horrible

Kid,

Yeah your right and I agree. It would be great to have competition. If for no other reason than to some of the rectal-cranial inversion out of the AMA thought process.

My point is that no matter what is in place, rules will have to be followed. I just looked up the rules of the Omahawks. Great looking club by the way. They are doing things right it seems.
And you can fly as a guest, but if you are there to fly all the time, you are required to buy a permit. As I said, there is no free lunch, no matter how much we might feel the need for one.

yup, the new AMA club rules are to buy a permit, that used to be ok with a decent homeowners policy or some other decent insurance, but is now AMA ONLY to get a permit. Once again showing the real existance of the misunderstood exclusiveness of flying at ama clubs.

Why does a club that had Alternate Insurance Rules now saying All Permits must be AMA?
Has anybody called the Omahawks & explained the Not Exclusive nature of the AMA that is so commonly "misunderstood" to be Ultra-Exclusive?

You have taken much out of context.

My references about AMA has to do with AMA...not the Hawks.

I never said the Hawks were in worse shape. I have never argued about control as it relates to an insurer either. If anything, I have offered the concept of control through who ever is the insurer.

I really think you need to reread and try to understand.

I will try one more time to get the point across to you...if you cannot accept the fact... oh well.

But what has happened...Fact...for whatever reason the Hawks are no longer making the club available to non AMA members. That is the point. Notice I did not indicate the field is no longer available...just the club. Understand?

Yes it is their right…whether right or wrong… better or worse.

More to the point;

I had always admired them for going the extra mile, even though not easy, by promoting the hobby outside the auspices of the AMA.

What the hell is wrong with that???????

Do you believe AMA should be the only conduit for the hobby?

I have answered your questions now please reciprocate and afford me the same.

A wise man once told me "there is a quote for all occasions" And "a point in every direction is no point at all".

All these quotes are cute…no matter the point, one can be found to fit any occasion...So here is one for you Hoss; "you have to know when to hold them and you have to know when to fold them" Kenny Rogers.

There’s more but I will refrain at this particular point in time.

"But what has happened...Fact...for whatever reason the Hawks are no longer making the club available to non AMA members. That is the point. Notice I did not indicate the field is no longer available...just the club. Understand? "

Sure I understand...so what? What was the program prior to the whole AMA shift? WHat was required to fly there? It HAD to be something. If I just rolled up, impounded my tx and started prepping my plane your saying thats all that was required before to fly there? I doubt it.

"I had always admired them for going the extra mile, even though not easy, by promoting the hobby outside the auspices of the AMA.
What the hell is wrong with that???????"

Woah, haul her back in there a bit Cochise. Using your words What the hell does that mean? Going the extra mile? How? Promoting the hobby outside of the AMA? Really?

Crank if I may call you Crank...and I guess even if I can't, cause I just did.
They were just a club and a pretty nice one at that, guess what, they still are!
You make it sound like they just got 666 tattoo'd behind their ears. They had to require something prior to this to allow folks to fly there. The City or County probably required something as well or instead, but my point is that I highly doubt any Joe Schmo could just roll up and fly, which is what it sounds like you are trying to say.
It's nothing major and certainly nothing to get twiggy about, again, I just don't see where the angst comes from. The guys are still the same guys, they will still ahve fun and notice they are doing this so that at the end of the year, guys will get a full year from the membership. I'm sure it's all good.

As stated previously
You have to have a Club Permit to fly there.
Prior to the AMA hooey, other types of insurance would satisfy the insurance req to get a Omahawks flying Permit. But now with the AMA dogma in place, no other coverage, to include any coverage actually greater than AMA insurance, is allowed.

Check post#51 by P51b

Again I think you have a problem making the distinction between a club and a flying field. This is not about who can show up and fly. Of course, a place where Joe Schmo can just show up and fly would be great...wouldn't it?


This thread is about a club that can no longer have anyone other than an AMA member. Bottom line...unless other alternatives are allowed, accepted and supported the AMA will have essentially full control. I think that would be a place we shouldn't be. With a screen name such as Liberator it seems you should understand that better than most.


I quite frankly do not care to see this hobby controlled by just one entity, no matter how good they are perceived to be. If AMA had just a little more clout, stupid rules like the infamous "rule #9" would stick without option. Try to envision what it would be like now if AMA was the only option. Let's just ponder the day when all government entities require AMA. If that day was now the hobby would be nothing more than rules and regulations that those that have control desire...it wouldn't be much longer the hobby would be essentially dead. Flying low performance models in circles has little to offer the future enthusiasts. The proof is the decline of AMA now.

There are a lot of technologies on the horizon. One of the future modes of flying will include a visor that can give the model flyer a first person perspective from his models cockpit. Really cool stuff. Will AMA portray that as a possibly adverse with the "post 9/11" mentality or will they embrace it as a true expansion of our hobby? When I here "post 9/11" in conjunction within a discussion about our hobby I realize just how crazy the mindset can be. Bottom line...the hobbyists aren't terrorists and anything they do have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing! I am concerned that AMA's current mindset may not have what it takes to keep the distinction clear. Therefore other options are important.

You P&M about this item. You argue about a club that by majority club-member vote has changed their operation. That SIR is THEIR business. Again -- THEIR business!

Now if you want such a place, as in your above quoted statement, to exist, then BUILD one. Do something for yourself, and show the world just how right you are. [>:]

Until you get out there and fight the battles, don't expect any hero-respect, and certainly not from one that has done so.

Another quote for you lil C-s: I liked it very well when ol' General Curtiss LeMay said to us Bomber Crews, "Don't tell me your problems, just show me the results." For us that could obtain the desired results, there was nothing to worry about. If and when we failed, we took the medicine, and went out again. Only the whiners had real problems. Fortunately there were very few of them, and so they were not worried about either.

So YOU get that field for all the Joe Schmoes to just come and fly. I would love to see how long that lasts. [sm=what_smile.gif]

Joe Schmoes that had acceptable outside insurance to get a Omahawks Permit to fly?
Those Joes?

my gripe may not be exactly in line with LCS's
They used to allow insurance, including policies possibly in excess to AMA coverage, but now they cant by the misunderstood AMA exclusive dogma

Understand Crank, you and I are really not that far apart, but in the grand scheme of things, thre are bigger things to be concerned about imho. I think that in a perfect world of course, it would be great if everyone would behave in the correct manner and no rules were needed. In fact I think that under certain circumstances too many rules or rules enforced by complete zealots serve to send a negative message to a new modeler.

I would almost guarantee that Hoss would disagree, but that just amuses me.
Gosh Hoss why does it not suprise me that you quote from someone like "Bombs away Lemay?"
Good old Mr. Finesse.

What is so funny is how little you know. You make accusations without a real clue as to what I may have done or have not done. Your ignorance is overwhelming.

Enlighten us, I'm sure interested in what you've done for the hobby. Go ahead and boast!

BTW Here is another quote that applies to you "you need to know when to walk away and when to run"

The record is clear and we all know you will run from you charge of duty. You have proved that beyond a shadow of any doubt. Now all you do is run your mouth. [:'(]

boast? I think I will that up for the more self important types to do. You now have the floor…you and Hoss can dance the night away BTW How is the Central Park flying field going that you boast you will install?[sm=lol.gif]

Did you get your waiver?[sm=drowning.gif]

um, who fed the folks in Berlin, with that whole Airlift thing?
Some kind of great Humanitarian there, feeding all them folks... Mom Theresa would be proud of the Airlift
(actually, I dont recolect if it was Lemay or not, but I'll just guess it was & run with it)


Any OmaHawks out there know if the club ever actually got a quote for Local Inurance ?

I think I am starting to get confused.

I just went and looked at the current membership application, http://www.omahawks.org/pdf/2005Hawk...ngPermit-b.pdf , it says (the $55.00 option) that AMA IS NOT required, but includes the field permit. But the field permit only ($50.00 option) indicates that AMA IS required.

Some sort of typo, or is there a profit for the club angle here somehow?

Can't be sure but probably an adminisrtrative fee of sorts. Just to clear the air I was not and am not a hawks member. I guess it would be best to pose the question to them.

By the way Hossfly, while we agree on some things and disagree on others, thank you for your service. And thank goodness for all the "Bombs away Lemay's" that knew what needed to be done and weren't afraid to do it!

O.K., now the thread may continue.

Yup he did, he also fire bombed 300,000 Japanese civilians and tried really hard to get us to turn the cold war hot. He was also the inspiration for the character in Dr. Strangelove. Yeah, quite a guy.

hmm
seems this permit application has
$50 permit for folks that have AMA (with ama insurance)
$55 permit for folks that dont have ama insurance, and provides HawkInsurance
so the Insurance is just $5 more than having your own AMA insurance?