Where do electrics fit in ?
10-31-2006 | 08:56 AM
#26
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: ptulmer
LCS, it's public land and the city requires us to carry a certain amount of insurance and they approved the AMA version many years ago.
LCS, it's public land and the city requires us to carry a certain amount of insurance and they approved the AMA version many years ago.
I have heard many times that such and such municipality requires AMA but I doubt it has been taken to test.
It is just easier to trim the sails than change the direction of the wind. (Oh, I got that sage advice recently and thought it fitting here. )
10-31-2006 | 09:11 AM
#27
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From: Manhattan,
NY
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
I have heard many times that such and such municipality requires AMA but I doubt it has been taken to test.
Keep in mind that Municipalities and Parks Departments are also part of other National Municipalities and Parks Assoc's, so they are used to the drill. Hard to get anything disorganized past them.
10-31-2006 | 09:53 AM
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From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
STL, were people allowed to fly in these city parks before you pitched your AMA suggestions???
If so then you may have just upset some parkflyers because now they are required to purchase something they had no intentions of purchasing to fly their PF models.
If they were not allowed to fly but the AMA pitch opened up a new place to fly then that is great.
If so then you may have just upset some parkflyers because now they are required to purchase something they had no intentions of purchasing to fly their PF models.
If they were not allowed to fly but the AMA pitch opened up a new place to fly then that is great.
10-31-2006 | 10:04 AM
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From: Brunswick,
GA
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: Rat1
And why do you say that?
Is it because I feel that it is wrong and discriminant to hold the more reliable systems from the PF groups or to even suggest it???
Or is it because of my suggestion that this suggestion comes from nose in the air type club or AMA members????
Want the PF guys to be under your control then think about how much it costs to get in that particular club.
This is just another reason why there should be a tiered membership for the PF group and non PF group.
And why do you say that?
Is it because I feel that it is wrong and discriminant to hold the more reliable systems from the PF groups or to even suggest it???
Or is it because of my suggestion that this suggestion comes from nose in the air type club or AMA members????
Want the PF guys to be under your control then think about how much it costs to get in that particular club.
This is just another reason why there should be a tiered membership for the PF group and non PF group.
10-31-2006 | 10:19 AM
#30
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
I pitched the AMA to the City of St. Louis Parks Department and they were thrilled of the idea that not only will it be insured by the AMA, but they were also a National Organization that stood behind it, so they decided to require it,
I pitched the AMA to the City of St. Louis Parks Department and they were thrilled of the idea that not only will it be insured by the AMA, but they were also a National Organization that stood behind it, so they decided to require it,
There may be wording to the effect of an “agreement for use†but that is quite different from an absolute requirement. Here is an actual excerpt from an actual “lease agreement†(key wording)"Lessee must maintain membership with the Academy of Modeling Aeronautics and shall provide a copy of the AMA Flying site insurance policy each year to the City"
Nowhere does it specify acquisition of AMA but it was part of an agreement to "maintain" existing membership. Here is a case where one might think AMA is required after reading the excerpt but that would be an erroneous assumption. It is only required to fulfill this agreement. It would be possible to re-negotiate the terms if desired and utilize another method of insurance all together.
Actually, at this particular site non-AMA flyers are also routinely allowed...as individuals they have signed no such agreement. The city will also issue permits for individual AMA members as well, as well as allowing non-AMA flyers providing they met certain standards.
Two parties can make any lawful agreement they desire but that does not constitute a mandate or requirement for others. Others can strike their own agreement if desired.
For a city to outright require membership with any particular organization to allow use of public property leaves themselves open to discriminatory type litigation. Whether they would win or not is debatable. Smart city lawyers will stop short of absolutes to maintain wiggle room.
10-31-2006 | 10:49 AM
#31
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From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
Somewhere else I proposed the AMA should set aside the bottom 10 channels for Freq Conflict, let all the PFs have the bottom 10 channels & shootdown each other.
...
Not a goverment act, just storeowners chosing to help prevent shootdowns, they dont even miss out on selling a $300 radio to some guy that needs a WallyToy- they can sell the most expensive radio they have but just in a channel "1_"
...
Not a goverment act, just storeowners chosing to help prevent shootdowns, they dont even miss out on selling a $300 radio to some guy that needs a WallyToy- they can sell the most expensive radio they have but just in a channel "1_"
ok, try this on for your EHS (e-hobbyshop)
AMA discount on Hitec & Futaba radios in channels above 20, members get $400 off the sellers price of $520 for a $120 radio. Just show channels 11-20 sell for $120 and channels 21+ sell for $520.
AMA discount on Hitec & Futaba radios in channels above 20, members get $400 off the sellers price of $520 for a $120 radio. Just show channels 11-20 sell for $120 and channels 21+ sell for $520.
I'd like a Hitec Focus, whats a good channel?
You gonna fly at an ama club?
No, I've got some land over yonder.
Then take 13 or 19.... heres one in 19 for ya.
***!!! Thats It! I'm gonna sue you for discrimination!!!!!
Welcome to E-Crash, the ama friendly Online Hobby Shop
This weeks special is our $520 radio for $120 in channels 11-20.... enter your AMA number to get a discount on other channels
Regulation, where? I see a radio on sale, and I see a discount for members of organizations. Unless you want to say a Tire & Brakes place cannot legally give 10% off to Active Military/Fire/Police on certain sizes of tires, then you need to rethink what you consider discrimination. Maybe give AARP a call & get them to stop getting special treatment in restaurants that have Senior discounts.
If you want to sue a place that badly, come to where I work: We give fire & police in uniform 30% off.... sue us for discriminating against your lack of civil service
PT- not directed at you. I just slipped the cutoff from 27band/72band to be a ch11-20/ch21+
10-31-2006 | 06:10 PM
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From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
Just so some know. I do not hate the AMA. I do not hate clubs. I do however dislike people that want to force things on people such as AMA or clubs. I also dislike people that would discriminate against parkflyers by suggesting that hobbystores keep certain things from them simply because they do not belong to a certain club or have membership in an organization such as the AMA.
But I quess the stereotype still fits many of the club members or AMA members since they are so stuck up that they would suggest such activity such as keeping "Their" radio equpiment from these people because they do nto belong to "Our" club.
Oh I would never dream of going near a club and trying to shoot aircraft down. I knwo many of these people spend their hard earned money and alot of time on these models. I would not want them to do it to me so why would I want to do it to them.
But I quess the stereotype still fits many of the club members or AMA members since they are so stuck up that they would suggest such activity such as keeping "Their" radio equpiment from these people because they do nto belong to "Our" club.
Oh I would never dream of going near a club and trying to shoot aircraft down. I knwo many of these people spend their hard earned money and alot of time on these models. I would not want them to do it to me so why would I want to do it to them.
11-01-2006 | 09:13 AM
#33
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From: Lancaster,
NH
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
Hey,
Wow guys ..... so you have different opinions thats OK. As long as we can agree that people on the same channels can cause a problem and we need to look for a solution.
Rat 1 ..... Grafton ND is your home town. As I remember thats pretty desolate country up there. I lived in Thief River for about 9 years when I worked for Arctic Cats Corp offices. I had a fellow Named Chip Aasand working for me from Grafton. Do you know him?????
103/17
Wow guys ..... so you have different opinions thats OK. As long as we can agree that people on the same channels can cause a problem and we need to look for a solution.
Rat 1 ..... Grafton ND is your home town. As I remember thats pretty desolate country up there. I lived in Thief River for about 9 years when I worked for Arctic Cats Corp offices. I had a fellow Named Chip Aasand working for me from Grafton. Do you know him?????
103/17
11-01-2006 | 09:34 AM
#34
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From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
there is an old trick to sharing:
You dived the thing as you see fair, and then I will pick which half I get.
Works for kids, works for RC.
What if we did this:
There are a ton on channels, you buy, or say you will buy, 2 or 3 or 10 channels, and we will use the rest. How many PFs are in Grafton, and how many Clubbers.... shouldnt the mass of available channels be split along that ratio? if there are 10 times as many clubbers they should get 10 times as many channels? If there is 1 in 8 RC guys that are a PF, then 1 in 8 channels should be reserved just for them, no Clubber should take one of the PF channels, keeping them clear for the PFs.
What if you pick your channels, and promiss to only use them, and we promiss not to use your channels. Some would call this a Freq Sharing agreement. All we ask is you stay on the channels you pick.
What is wrong with us promissing to stay off your channels?
You dived the thing as you see fair, and then I will pick which half I get.
Works for kids, works for RC.
What if we did this:
There are a ton on channels, you buy, or say you will buy, 2 or 3 or 10 channels, and we will use the rest. How many PFs are in Grafton, and how many Clubbers.... shouldnt the mass of available channels be split along that ratio? if there are 10 times as many clubbers they should get 10 times as many channels? If there is 1 in 8 RC guys that are a PF, then 1 in 8 channels should be reserved just for them, no Clubber should take one of the PF channels, keeping them clear for the PFs.
What if you pick your channels, and promiss to only use them, and we promiss not to use your channels. Some would call this a Freq Sharing agreement. All we ask is you stay on the channels you pick.
What is wrong with us promissing to stay off your channels?
11-01-2006 | 10:46 AM
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From: Plainview,
NY
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
I live 1 1/2 air miles from a Flying field, am I permitted to take my 30 size Heli up in my Backyard? Or do I have to be on one of the toy bands???? Being predominantly a Heli guy (I do fly fixed wings) I'm used to being the red headed step child in the AMA and Club world...
11-01-2006 | 11:12 AM
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From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
There are a few proposals floating around, some decent, some not so nice
A. Freq Share Ageement per AMA for conflicts
B. AMA dogma owns all channels, you are hosed, you have to move or join
C. FCC hopes you all just get along, dont interfere with a freq in use, 1st come 1st served
D. WallyToy & junk PFs get the 27band - good luck , real radios come w/ responsibility
E. Clubbers / LHS / AMA set aside voluntarily first 10 channels of FM for PFs / Conflict-Abatement
F. Do nothing, and continue to shoot each other down
I would say you & your heli would do best under A, C, or maybe E (which is actually a spinoff of A). A would be a nice clean friendly wayto fly at home, and C is a federal promiss that you have the same access to that freq as the club. Probably a nice letter explaining your desire to share the freq before escalating to Muncie Mandate gets better results than stopping by the field & getting some hothead to get all B on you, to which you will get all C back at him & win.
I do see the value of having Wallyworld sell 20,000 toys in a city... and they very well better not be on real freqs. If you want to buy a real radio, and convert your Wally-Toy to 72.xxx, then I dont see a problem with that- you learn a real radio has responibility. (not saying your heli is one of them, just general WallyToy talk) But I think E resolves many more issues, and could be a standing policy rather than making things up on the fly
A. Freq Share Ageement per AMA for conflicts
B. AMA dogma owns all channels, you are hosed, you have to move or join
C. FCC hopes you all just get along, dont interfere with a freq in use, 1st come 1st served
D. WallyToy & junk PFs get the 27band - good luck , real radios come w/ responsibility
E. Clubbers / LHS / AMA set aside voluntarily first 10 channels of FM for PFs / Conflict-Abatement
F. Do nothing, and continue to shoot each other down
I would say you & your heli would do best under A, C, or maybe E (which is actually a spinoff of A). A would be a nice clean friendly wayto fly at home, and C is a federal promiss that you have the same access to that freq as the club. Probably a nice letter explaining your desire to share the freq before escalating to Muncie Mandate gets better results than stopping by the field & getting some hothead to get all B on you, to which you will get all C back at him & win.
I do see the value of having Wallyworld sell 20,000 toys in a city... and they very well better not be on real freqs. If you want to buy a real radio, and convert your Wally-Toy to 72.xxx, then I dont see a problem with that- you learn a real radio has responibility. (not saying your heli is one of them, just general WallyToy talk) But I think E resolves many more issues, and could be a standing policy rather than making things up on the fly
11-01-2006 | 11:25 AM
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From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
I pitched the AMA to the City of St. Louis Parks Department and they were thrilled of the idea that not only will it be insured by the AMA, but they were also a National Organization that stood behind it,
I pitched the AMA to the City of St. Louis Parks Department and they were thrilled of the idea that not only will it be insured by the AMA, but they were also a National Organization that stood behind it,
As far as I know, St. Louis was already familiar with AMA, it used to be an acceptable form of insurance at Buder Park when I lived there back at the end of the 70's and into the early 80's....or did you pitch it prior to that?
11-01-2006 | 11:28 AM
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From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
If you are an AMA member you have agreed to have a frequency sharing agreement in place between the two flying sites.
If you are an AMA member you have agreed to have a frequency sharing agreement in place between the two flying sites.
Don't forget the extension of that! If non-AMA guys refuse the frequency sharing agreement, the AMA guys can no longer fly since the agreement isn't in place.
11-01-2006 | 11:37 AM
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From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
the AMA guys can no longer fly since the agreement isn't in place
11-01-2006 | 11:39 AM
#41
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: P-51B
As far as I know, St. Louis was already familiar with AMA, it used to be an acceptable form of insurance at Buder Park when I lived there back at the end of the 70's and into the early 80's....or did you pitch it prior to that?
As far as I know, St. Louis was already familiar with AMA, it used to be an acceptable form of insurance at Buder Park when I lived there back at the end of the 70's and into the early 80's....or did you pitch it prior to that?
11-01-2006 | 11:41 AM
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From: Plainview,
NY
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
There are a few proposals floating around, some decent, some not so nice
A. Freq Share Ageement per AMA for conflicts
B. AMA dogma owns all channels, you are hosed, you have to move or join
C. FCC hopes you all just get along, dont interfere with a freq in use, 1st come 1st served
D. WallyToy & junk PFs get the 27band - good luck , real radios come w/ responsibility
E. Clubbers / LHS / AMA set aside voluntarily first 10 channels of FM for PFs / Conflict-Abatement
F. Do nothing, and continue to shoot each other down
I would say you & your heli would do best under A, C, or maybe E (which is actually a spinoff of A). A would be a nice clean friendly wayto fly at home, and C is a federal promiss that you have the same access to that freq as the club. Probably a nice letter explaining your desire to share the freq before escalating to Muncie Mandate gets better results than stopping by the field & getting some hothead to get all B on you, to which you will get all C back at him & win.
I do see the value of having Wallyworld sell 20,000 toys in a city... and they very well better not be on real freqs. If you want to buy a real radio, and convert your Wally-Toy to 72.xxx, then I dont see a problem with that- you learn a real radio has responibility. (not saying your heli is one of them, just general WallyToy talk) But I think E resolves many more issues, and could be a standing policy rather than making things up on the fly
There are a few proposals floating around, some decent, some not so nice
A. Freq Share Ageement per AMA for conflicts
B. AMA dogma owns all channels, you are hosed, you have to move or join
C. FCC hopes you all just get along, dont interfere with a freq in use, 1st come 1st served
D. WallyToy & junk PFs get the 27band - good luck , real radios come w/ responsibility
E. Clubbers / LHS / AMA set aside voluntarily first 10 channels of FM for PFs / Conflict-Abatement
F. Do nothing, and continue to shoot each other down
I would say you & your heli would do best under A, C, or maybe E (which is actually a spinoff of A). A would be a nice clean friendly wayto fly at home, and C is a federal promiss that you have the same access to that freq as the club. Probably a nice letter explaining your desire to share the freq before escalating to Muncie Mandate gets better results than stopping by the field & getting some hothead to get all B on you, to which you will get all C back at him & win.
I do see the value of having Wallyworld sell 20,000 toys in a city... and they very well better not be on real freqs. If you want to buy a real radio, and convert your Wally-Toy to 72.xxx, then I dont see a problem with that- you learn a real radio has responibility. (not saying your heli is one of them, just general WallyToy talk) But I think E resolves many more issues, and could be a standing policy rather than making things up on the fly
I agree but I was and now am an AMA member again... I pretty much left fixed wing and flew heli's through most of the 90's and had no use for the AMA since I could not fly on any of the local Fixed wing sites anyway... I don't agree with B though the AMA does not own the frequencies.... We have clubs in the area who have pretty much banned Heli's from flying on their (public owned land) field... If you aren't going to let them fly with you, they are going to go to the local park and fly and you can't stop them...
Between my home and said flying field there are no less than 5 parks, many who buy a PF probably have no idea that there is a flying field there nor do they understand frequency sharing....
It would be better to let the PF's (and Heli's) into your club and have control than to have them fly in a nearby park and possibly shoot down a zenoah powered monster....
11-01-2006 | 11:58 AM
#43
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: vtl1180ny
Between my home and said flying field there are no less than 5 parks, many who buy a PF probably have no idea that there is a flying field there nor do they understand frequency sharing....
It would be better to let the PF's (and Heli's) into your club and have control than to have them fly in a nearby park and possibly shoot down a zenoah powered monster....
Between my home and said flying field there are no less than 5 parks, many who buy a PF probably have no idea that there is a flying field there nor do they understand frequency sharing....
It would be better to let the PF's (and Heli's) into your club and have control than to have them fly in a nearby park and possibly shoot down a zenoah powered monster....
Things are changing at a before unseen rate and unless SS rides in on white horse real soon a real large percent of flying fields will become unusable with the present exclusive mindset of the typical AMA membership in place now. Sales of 72 MHz RTF models are now mind boggling. More people than ever before is trying Radio Control and have not been enamored with the typical RC club mindset and as result are reluctant to join AMA.
11-01-2006 | 01:29 PM
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From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: 103/17
Hey,
Wow guys ..... so you have different opinions thats OK. As long as we can agree that people on the same channels can cause a problem and we need to look for a solution.
Rat 1 ..... Grafton ND is your home town. As I remember thats pretty desolate country up there. I lived in Thief River for about 9 years when I worked for Arctic Cats Corp offices. I had a fellow Named Chip Aasand working for me from Grafton. Do you know him?????
103/17
Hey,
Wow guys ..... so you have different opinions thats OK. As long as we can agree that people on the same channels can cause a problem and we need to look for a solution.
Rat 1 ..... Grafton ND is your home town. As I remember thats pretty desolate country up there. I lived in Thief River for about 9 years when I worked for Arctic Cats Corp offices. I had a fellow Named Chip Aasand working for me from Grafton. Do you know him?????
103/17
11-01-2006 | 01:44 PM
#45
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From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
there is an old trick to sharing:
You dived the thing as you see fair, and then I will pick which half I get.
Works for kids, works for RC.
What if we did this:
There are a ton on channels, you buy, or say you will buy, 2 or 3 or 10 channels, and we will use the rest. How many PFs are in Grafton, and how many Clubbers.... shouldnt the mass of available channels be split along that ratio? if there are 10 times as many clubbers they should get 10 times as many channels? If there is 1 in 8 RC guys that are a PF, then 1 in 8 channels should be reserved just for them, no Clubber should take one of the PF channels, keeping them clear for the PFs.
What if you pick your channels, and promiss to only use them, and we promiss not to use your channels. Some would call this a Freq Sharing agreement. All we ask is you stay on the channels you pick.
What is wrong with us promissing to stay off your channels?
there is an old trick to sharing:
You dived the thing as you see fair, and then I will pick which half I get.
Works for kids, works for RC.
What if we did this:
There are a ton on channels, you buy, or say you will buy, 2 or 3 or 10 channels, and we will use the rest. How many PFs are in Grafton, and how many Clubbers.... shouldnt the mass of available channels be split along that ratio? if there are 10 times as many clubbers they should get 10 times as many channels? If there is 1 in 8 RC guys that are a PF, then 1 in 8 channels should be reserved just for them, no Clubber should take one of the PF channels, keeping them clear for the PFs.
What if you pick your channels, and promiss to only use them, and we promiss not to use your channels. Some would call this a Freq Sharing agreement. All we ask is you stay on the channels you pick.
What is wrong with us promissing to stay off your channels?
I use one channel for all my models as they are all setup to use my Hitec Flash TX.
I just do not think it is close to fair that someone should suggest hobbyshops hold certain things from people because they do nto belong to a certain club or oranization. It would be like me demanding that a bike shop only sell Huffy brand bikes to people because they do not ride their bike with me. Or like a motorcycle shop not selling a certain brand of motorcycle to someone because they do not belong to Bike club or the other AMA (American motorcycle Association). I could go on and on like say Snowmobiles. Don't belong to a club then you can't own a new Arctic Cat or Polaris etc. Or how about a 4x4 club???? Nope you can not have that new H1 Hummer because you do not belong to the club, but you can by that other (less capable)4x4 if you want.
11-01-2006 | 04:19 PM
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From: Lancaster,
NH
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
Rat 1,
Unless Chipper has had a new Harley since he and Connie split then its the same one he bought from another fellow ( Ben Robbins )who also worked for me at Arctic Cat and they rebuilt it in my garage in TRF. It had a bent frame when he bought it. He and Connie helped me move my family to NY, then they stayed for a few days. He drove the u-haul that had my Corvette behind it and I drove the u-haul with my model A. I was really good friends with him back then. His job is actually very easy, its his boss who makes it difficult for him. I really felt bad when I left all of the people who worked for me, I knew the new group of management would not be easy to work for........
103/17
Unless Chipper has had a new Harley since he and Connie split then its the same one he bought from another fellow ( Ben Robbins )who also worked for me at Arctic Cat and they rebuilt it in my garage in TRF. It had a bent frame when he bought it. He and Connie helped me move my family to NY, then they stayed for a few days. He drove the u-haul that had my Corvette behind it and I drove the u-haul with my model A. I was really good friends with him back then. His job is actually very easy, its his boss who makes it difficult for him. I really felt bad when I left all of the people who worked for me, I knew the new group of management would not be easy to work for........
103/17
11-01-2006 | 08:10 PM
#48
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
One solution coult be the 2.4ghz spektrum modules. They work great for small electrics, and do not interfere with 72mhz. There is a company that is coming out with a 2.4 module for larger models, not so sure about that though. Don't know if I trust it so much.
11-01-2006 | 11:27 PM
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From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Where do electrics fit in ?
ORIGINAL: brentp76
One solution coult be the 2.4ghz spektrum modules. They work great for small electrics, and do not interfere with 72mhz. There is a company that is coming out with a 2.4 module for larger models, not so sure about that though. Don't know if I trust it so much.
One solution coult be the 2.4ghz spektrum modules. They work great for small electrics, and do not interfere with 72mhz. There is a company that is coming out with a 2.4 module for larger models, not so sure about that though. Don't know if I trust it so much.
heck I can't afford to join AMA or a club muchless any more gear for radio controlled aircraft.
I sit here dreaming about finishing up my Mini Funtana and starting on my Mountain Models Cessna and Panic along with a Scorpio Hellcat. But I wait on money to purchase speed controls, receivers, servos,batteries and outrunners. Heck right now I would have a tough time scratching up cash for CA and other things needed. First need to purchase a new set of boots for work along with a set of Carharts as i will be doing alot of work outside in the snow etc.
