Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Easytiger,

Yes, there is a pissing contest in regards to if the field and flagpole was moved....BUT----You are missing the main point!!!!!

If a flagpole will cause a problem with Mr. Severe's operation then how about a house.....or a barn.....or WHATEVER!!! IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT MR. SEVERE'S STRIP DOES NOT HAVE AN ADEQUATE AREA TO CONDUCT HIS OPERATIONS.....PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin

J_R

No, the main point is that both of them are putting people in harms way. PERIOD.

JR

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

Ok guys,

I've been turning this over in my head for a couple days now and I'm still leaning towards the conclusion that Mr. Servere is the one with the problem, not the club. Here's why. . . .

I just took another look at the satellite photo in Post #66. I think everyone debating this needs to go back to that post and take another close look at that picture. You will notice that Mr. Servere's airstrip ends right at the edge of County Rd. #207. If Mr. Servere is taking off in a heavily loaded airplane on a hot day and only manages to get his airplane off of the ground at "the last brick", where are the first obstacles he is likely to encounter located?? Not the model airplanes but a vehicle that is driving down County Rd. #207. I would bet my FAA issued Airline Transport Pilot licence that the FAA would find Mr. Servere responsible for the ensuing accident because as Pilot In Command he did not ensure proper obstacle clearance. Building his airstrip the way he has is setting himself up for an accident. There are man-made obstacles all over this planet and it is up to the PIC to avoid them, not the other way around.

There is a reason you don't see public runways built right up against other property, there is always a clear area around the sides and ends of "any landable surface". In public airports, this obstacle free zone extends from the edges of "any landable surface" upwards at a 3:1 angle to 400 feet, then at various angles for several miles . . . Anyway, the government entity that owns the airport, to maintain it's FAA certification, must ensure that no obstacles penetrate this 3:1 zone. That is why they OWN the land around the runway, so they can control what obstacles are place there.

Mr. Servere does NOT own enough land to ensure that he has this 3:1 obstacle free zone, so he is trying to get his neighbors to provide it for him. What do you think that the county's answer would be if he asked them to ensure he has an obstacle free zone?

Would I be ticked off if I was Mr. Hammer? - you're darn tootin' I would be. I would have laughed in his face and used his request to start a fire. Even if Mr. Hammer SOLD his property to Mr. Servere, do you think that gives him the right to extend his airstrip across the county road??

What do you think the county commissioners would say to Mr. Servere if he sent them a letter telling the county that they need to remove the power lines (or agree to never build them there) so that he may utilize the full length of his airstrip? How about if he also asked the county to sign an agreement that no vehicles can drive down County Rd. #207 so that he may be guaranteed obstacle clearance for his takeoff path? What about if there was a road sign that was right on the centerline of the strip?

Now the county commissioners may AGREE to his requests, but I'm sure that he would either have to reimburse the county for the changes or make some "campaign contributions". Either way, I don't think that he can DEMAND that the county bend to his wishes.

So. . .

I still stand by my earlier post, that Mr. Hammer needs to map out his 300 acres with a GPS, pass those coordinates to the local Flight Service Station saying that we operate model airplanes 24/7. Once the NOTAM is published, fax a copy to the AMA to prove that full scale traffic is no longer a factor at our field.

Now IF Mr. Hammer wants to be a good neighbor. . . .

You can then work out a procedure where Mr. Hammer can get the NOTAM temporarily lifted. . . . it would go something like this. . . .


Mr. Servere: (Ring, Ring. . .) Hey, Mr. Hammer, I'm taking the J-3 out for a spin today. I'll be taking off right around 3pm.

Mr. Hammer: Great, I'll tell the guys at the field to land their airplanes when they hear you fire up your engine. . . we'll be looking for a great fly by!! Thanks for the heads up!!

Mr. Hammer: (Ring, Ring. . .) Hello, Mr. Flight Service Specialist. We'll be suspending our model airplane operations today from 2pm to 4pm. Thanks!!

(FSS guy then makes the appropriate changes to the NOTAM indicating it is cancelled from 2pm to 4pm, this gives Mr. Servere some leeway for his 3pm planned takeoff)

2:50 pm at the Hammer Field: Hey guys, I think I hear Mr. Severe starting his engine. Yup, I see him. . . .. Hey guys!! Land your planes!!

VVVVVVVRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!!! Cheers erupt from the crowd at Hammer Field as everyone smiles at the J-3 wing wagging after his fly-by. . . .

Sigh. . . . what a wonderful world. . . .

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Jeez. No, again, life is NOT that simple. I WISH it was that simple. Guess what? You canNOT deliberately create a problem for others. You will get taken to court and LOSE.
Here's a perfect example. Your own. Memphis wants to expand their airport. Why the hell should they bother buying up the houses under the approach? According to you, it's not THEIR problem. The City of Memphis can do whatever they damned well please, it's on THEIR property, right? WRONG.
And according to Hammer himself, his own full scale airfield is only a few hundred feet longer than Severe's. And 1700' is plenty for many, many, many lightplanes. And the only person I have heard complain is Hammer, so far.
PERIOD! Dot! End of story! Etcetera...

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

The above post was for Kevin Greene...
Klhoard, assuming you are right, your post makes a lot of sense. I still think, though, that the field is not really the issue, it's really another sort of back-fence feud that started elsewhere. If these people were not enemies, they would have just picked up the phone and worked it out. But who really knows...

bigtwin113

look for yourself shots taken feb 28th 2001
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.c...20159&z=15&w=2
show silver wings land before any airstrip was built.....
next either scroll straight down from that photo or follow the next link to see hammers field and note you can destinctly see a cross or x pattern of runways..

http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.c...20157&z=15&w=2
you can go to the first picture post to see relitive discriptions of where things are now..
sattelites dont lie.

bigtwin113

http://bigtwin.tripod.com/index_of_a...ammerfield.htm
this link has photos from on of our flyins almost 3 years ago in 2000 look kool planes.and note fox manufacturing from fort smith was there.
im trying to clear up this myth that we moved our strip in front of severes strip its just not true

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

I've got no problem with you doing what you want with your land. Severe is to look after himself. We built a gliderport(full-size) with a road at the end of the strip, but anyone could have parked a two story truck there an we still had the length to take off and land safely. It might have been noisy if someone built a home across the road for us, BUT we could have moved over a few hundred feet and kept on, BECAUSE we had enough land. He could be a bit of a nut or is this a scam. The museum seems to be a way of living off of tax-free donations. AND he seems to be sucking people in. I don't envy you dealing with a neighbor like that. He will always be in the right. He's smart enough to play dumb and the courts, AMA, FAA, might fall for it.

We also, at that time had the CDN equivalent of the FAA insist we build our gliderport at least 50 miles from a small city, during one meeting. We asked "Is there a law requiring this?" "NO" "OK we'll build where we want to". They had tried to scam us also, because there was a weekly flight scheduled over our field and they didn't want to deal with that. Volunteers or staff in organizations try to take the easy way out and you signing an agreement giving up your rights would be the easy way out.

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

EASYTIGER,

This is exactly my point. The city of Memphis is buying up these houses to ensure that the airplanes taking off from their airport will have proper obstacle clearance from the time their wheels leave "the last brick" of the runway until they climb out to a safe altitude. (This, by the way, is an FAA requirement that must be met by the CITY before they will certificate the airport.) Remember, the city is not only responsible for the concrete that the runway is built on, but for providing an obstacle-free path once the airplanes enter FAA airspace. Once they buy these houses then the city can control what is built there. If for some reason the city was blocked from purchasing this land, then they could not expand the airport. (Another reason totally unrelated to obstacle clearance could be that past history has shown that if you just go ahead and buy a certain amount of land when you expand, it will be cheaper than the noise complaint lawsuits that will arise from the affected area.)

Now, let's move the same situation 800 miles west to Eureka Spring, AR. . . . keep in mind that we're comparing apples to bowling balls here because the Memphis airport is public (needs FAA certification) and Mr. Servere's airport is private (needs to abide by the laws of physics), but there are enough parallels to make my case. . . .

Mr. Servere decides to build an airstip for his J-3 Cub. He looks in his owners manual under the performance section and it says he needs a minimum 1500 feet of runway. Great, his land is 1500 feet wide so he goes out there and mows a 1500 foot strip that terminates right on the property lines of his two neighbors. Since his J-3 Cub cannot take off vertically, the FAR's require him to maintain obstacle clearance whenever he takes off or lands. He walks out on his freshly mown airstrip and notices that his neighbor has an obstacle on his property that impedes his flight path during climbout (model airplane activity, flagpole, driving range net, whatever). At this point in time, Mr. Servere is suffering from PPPPPP (Poor Prior Planning Promotes Poor Performance). Now he has some decisions to make.

1) Remove that obstacle which is hindering Mr. Servere's proposed activity. This could take several forms: Written compromise to suspend model operations, or purchase the land for yourself. It would be nice if the neighbor agreed, but if he didn't, Mr. Servere cannot expect to get angry and impose his will.

or

2) Alter your operations so you can avoid the obstacle i.e. take off in the other direction, or reorient the airstrip

or

3) Refrain from any flight activity that requires the use of your neighbors land for obstacle clearance i.e. buy a helicopter.

You can compare the actions of the two "airport authorities", Mr. Servere and the City of Memphis and how they handled their situations. It appears to me that Mr. Servere thinks his neighbors "owe" him an obstacle free zone, this is not the case. The same can be said for the City of Memphis, whether that additional land is bought or taken (eminent domain) they need to provide that obstacle free zone. The only difference here is that Mr. Servere doesn't have the right of Eminent Domain over the model club.

Gordo-ProBro

Keith, that was a great post! I loved it. We lack wit in this thread. Easy Tiger will ignore the logic in all that, stray from the facts, and restate his case, again. No offense, Easy T., but I'm convinced there is more to this story, and some of it is you. You're way to intense in the defense of your buddy to be as "innocent" as you pleade. According to Mr. Hammer, Easy T. was up there a while ago taking pictures. I can't verify it, but I'm as sure of that as Easy T. can be of his facts.

Along the lines of FAA stuff, all you pilot types, Mr. Servere says on his web site that his strip is "FAA Aproved", what does this mean for a private strip?

Also, we've established the fact that the models were not moved into the way of the full scale, that was a myth (boy did Easy T. jump all over that one!) but what about the flag pole? While I'm square on Hammers side here, I can't agree with seriously causeing a hazard (even though I did joke about it early in this thread) for any human carrying plane. Was the flag pole put up after Mr. Servere started flying in there? If so, DANGER, lawsuit for sure!

And last, big twin, what the heck has the FAA said about this so far? They can't ingore unsafe clearance with the road, and the lack of over flight agreements. Oh, and is there any hope of seeing the "agreement" that the AMA wants Hammer to sign? And are you guys flying still?

Later, Gordon

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Is THAT right? Mr. Hammer said I was up there taking pictures?
Alright. Now I know. The guy is a liar, plain and simple.
Let me spell it out, plain and simple:
L-I-A-R. And there is no reason to beleive ANYTHING of his story.
The guy is LYING. Unless Gordon, above, just made it up.
Let me say it one more time, he is LYING.
And please don't yowl at me about lawsuits...you see, he can't sue me, because he is LYING.
Once more: Hammer=liar.
He totally made that story up about me "taking pictures". I have never been anywhere NEAR Eureka Springs, Arkansas.
So, he's a liar. His story stunk from the beginning, and this just proves what I suspected all along. And if you people are sucker enough to buy his baloney, well, have at it.
And you know what? I have read so many bald-faced lies here on RCU, it's gotten kind of sickening.
While there are some very nice people here, and I have had an awful lot of fun, I'm saying goodbye. It's just gotten too silly. People read, post, and beleive some real nonsense here.
I think I'm done with RCU. Good night, all, and happy modelling...

Gordo-ProBro

Bummer.

Gordon

bigtwin113

easy tiger are you the one that took off from severes airstrip and buzzed the r/c flyers slow and low if so we have your number i dont think you would want to be grounded any more than us

Gordo-ProBro

Hey, wher exactly is "Knee Deep in Balsa"? It's been 20 minutes and he's still here.

Really, Easy T., Don't be such a baby. You've been speaking your mind. So am I. And I did say I couldn't verify it.

Gordon

bigtwin113

hea gorden im interested in you insurance post and im glad to see that someone really cares about us r/c flyers i hop you come fly with us soon as far as documents are concerned they were sent to ama weeks ago and hammer is awaiting his reply i do not know what will happen in this case but i can tell you it will be big and it will probadly be in concern for years to come as far as ama is concerned.
mr. hammer has always invited flyers to fly free of charge and has an excellent flying field that takes lots of maintance to maintain i have mowed for hours before a flyin so that any r/c can take off and land good

J_R

Nominate him for what? Are you mad at Mathewson?

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Keith,

You and I are on the same page on this one. As you said in a previous post we are comparing two different entities but there are many parallels in my post comparing Memphis to Eureka. Mr. Severe simply does NOT have enough land to ensure safe operations....Also, let's not forget about the trees that were allegedly removed from Mr. Severe's neighbors' property on the other end of Mr. Severe's strip. If there is a suit pending it would not be hard to find as it is public record.

Easytiger----It is easy to call someone a liar, especially if it is a matter of one individual's word over another. For all we know YOU are the liar. You have not been objective on this issue and the tone of most of your posts suggests that you are in favor of Mr. Severe. WHY???? Having read all of the posts I have come to my own conclusion that Mr. Severe built his strip knowing full well that there was R/C activity on one end of his strip and failed to work out an agreement PRIOR to building the strip. Obviously this offended Mr. Hammer and the pissing contest began. Mr. Severe's assumption was that full scale activity will supersede any and all activity there......WRONG!!!!!! As to whether or not Mr. Hammer was in his present location or not......Look at the aerial photo again. I see trees at the end of the runway just to the left of center. Hard to believe that full scale activity was taking place with those trees in the way. Look at the R/C airfield. The strip and the surrounding area look to be well established----Not fresh and recently cultivated. Draw your own conclusions as to who was where and first.

Kevin

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

Kevin,

You bring up another good point. Does Mr. Servere's want for an obstacle-free zone give him the right to cut down his neighbor's trees? What about if the neighbor had built his house there, would he have the right to raze their house to provide himself an obstacle free zone??

You need to look at how Mr. Servere has treated his neighbors on both ends of his airstrip to show that he is at least consistent. Both neighbors were treated the same, just that instead of RC models, the trees are in his way.

What would he have done if the county road had power lines along it?? Knock them down because they were in his way?? Accuse the county of encroaching on his aviation activities??

I think what is clouding everyone's vision here is the fact that we are all pro-aviation in every form. I'm probably more pro-aviation than anyone here because I'm a professional pilot and a modeller. However, I just cannot take Mr. Servere's side in this.

Let's change the activity in this thread for a moment. . . Mr. Servere decides to build a 1500 foot rifle range on his land. Since his lot is only 1500 feet wide, the firing point is on one property line, and the targets are on the other property line. How would you feel you were the neighbor next door and I sent you a letter asking you to bind yourself legally to put up bullet-proof windows and walls on your house so I can shoot on my property and the bullets can travel over onto yours.

bigtwin113

heres another point to the taking of land posted earlyer. as to the picture of the airstrip theres a little triangle section to the road which is gone now that is in dispute from neighbors around 80 t0 100 feet that i here about then theres another matter now where someone called the county judge to have a treeline taken out on our side of the road that we used to park cars under for shade..what gives them the right to do that.the only thing i see is it was right inline to the takeoff point which none of this matter would have happened if they just changed there arrival and departure direction 180 degrees then everyone would have been happy

Gordo-ProBro

Good points Keith,

The gun analogy is right on as there is also that going on by Mr. Severe. I'm as pro gun as well as pro aviation, But first I'm pro justice. The last guy in the pool can't choose the tempiture for everyone!

To all: I was not prepared for easy T's response to the quote from the Hammers that he (Easy T) had been there taking pictures. I haven't met the Hammers or anyone else involved, but I have been emailing back and forth. That was just a small little detail I had forgot about 'till I got tired of Easy T's tirades. Now I'm more curious than ever! Can't wait to go out to Eureka Springs. This is the 3rd weekend that I was going but the weather and work got in the way. But soon.

We all want to hear the whole story, and can't seem to get it. Does anyone question the AMA's response to this situation compared to Torry Pines? What do you think made Torry Pines so important to send out a World Wide Alert, and take on the city and county of San Diego, but one guy with a dirt strip who is so clearly in the wrong isn't worth their effort to fight? I feel really sorry for those who fly with the Hammers, especially since it was the only free club I have ever heard of! What a loss to all of modeling!

Well, I hope they win out!

Gordon

bigtwin113

gb when you get to eureka look us up we will be glad to show you the whole scenerio plus we can go out to eat or what ever

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

"Originally posted by littlecrankshaf


post 26 in this thread

come on boys lets get behind ET

modest ole southern boy. You can count on him to be on your side.

Anyway I would like to nominate Easy do we have a second?"


i am willing to bet that E T is not a resident of district 8, and therefore unable to run for the seat soon to be vacated, hopefully, by sandy frank.

Sledge-RCU

Sorry, didn't take the time to go back thru all 10 pages on this thread...but there was someone who said they'd come out to take photos of Severe's proposed full scale strip, only to realize they were taking photos of the wrong side of the road (ie Hammers place). Guess it was not ET; our apologies ET.
And to answer questions back several pages... Hammer got the first call from AMA on December 9. Hammer EMAILED AMA the SAME day providing his 'safety procedures' in regard to full scale. We were confused when AMA kept saying they had not received the 'safety procedures.' We were very appreciative to Dr Sandy for letting us know (after 7 weeks) that the main AMA office did not accept that info by email...they wanted it sent snail mail. The very same procedures were then sent to the AMA by certified mail the day that Dr Sandy called.
Mrs Sledge

kf5wd

Seems there is still a lot of misunderstanding about the timing of events
that led to the present conflict between Severe and Tom Hammer.
Hopefully this will help clear-up some of the confusion.
1. The current model field has been used at it's present location since
the summer of 1995
2. Severe did not own the land on which he built his landing strip until
2000, 5 years later
3. Trees along Hammer's side of the road provided shade for the modelers
parking area
4. Trees along the road at the approach end of Severe's runway were cut on
both sides of the road by the County road crews at Severe's request, even
tho some of those trees were on Hammer's property.
5. The area used for model flying on Hammer's property includes part of
the landing strip recognized as an emergency field since the 1920's
6. Hammer's model field has always been operated safely and according
to AMA Safety Rules
7. The links below may be helpful in sorting out questions about this
conflict

I have known Tom Hammer for almost 20 years and while he is a nice guy
and honest, he is not one to give up control of his own property to Severe or the AMA

http://www.airnav.com/airport/5A5
http://www.aviationcadet.com/founders.html

kf5wd

Forgot to include the following site:

http://www2.arkansas.net/~kf5wd/hammer.htm