P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

There was recently a poll up about the future direction of RCU...whether it would remain free, or become a fee charging entity. In reading the posts, it seemed that most people were more than willing to fork over between $5.00 and $25.00 for accessing the site. (the range includes what was asked in the poll and mentioned some of the comments).

My question is; Why are people so willing to pay for access to a web site, but complain about AMA dues?

vinnie

My Feedback: (1)

For the same reason people are willing to pay for a hot dog but complain about AMA dues.

What does one have to do with the other?

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I am just curious about why people are willing to pay for an RC website, or service if you will. But, are also willing to complain about the dues of AMA, another service if you will.

Somewhat different than paying for a hotdog because you are hungry due to the energy expending complaining about AMA.

Crash90

My Feedback: (17)

Because we get more from RCU than we get from AMA. Personally.

Hossfly

Is it really?

People will go sit in a bar or out to dinner and pay $3-4 for a beer that costs $4 a six-pack out side. They will pay $15-40 for a bottle of wine that costs $4-10 outside.
They will pay $15 - 50 for a dinner they could make themselves for $5.

The same guy that owns a $25,000.00 bass boat and goes fishing a half-dozen times a year p&ms about paying $150 for a year's membership in a first-class RC flying club.
Some guys that complain about AMA and/or Club dues have no problem with buying the latest XYZ Super Prop-Buster engine and the latest 30%+ Razzle-Dazzle One-Uppance flying machine every few months.
IMO there is no reason why people do or not do as they wish.
Can't be bothered with that stuff.

Rich-RCU

1. Having been in the BBS software business many years ago I found there are many people who will say they want to pay for a particular service but when it comes to pay up, they shut up... Sort of like trying to sell a used car or motorcycle in your front yard. Many people tell you they are going home to get the money. They never come back.

2. Perhaps they see the AMA as a large organization which has plenty of money therefore they feel that should get $100 worth of value for $50. (This applies to 1 above also).

3. I have been a member of the other AMA, NRA, EAA, AOPA a few other organizations and there are always people who say the magazine is garbage and what does xxxx organization do for me.

I've been visiting RCU more and more. I visit the newgroup about every 6 months, and leave in disgust. If I had to pay to use the newgroup or RCU I would go with RCU.


Rich

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

The one simple point that you guys never seem to understand, or choose to not understand as it may be is that people will pay for things they they believe in or want. If they want a beer that costs $4 in a bar, yea, they can get it cheaper, but they are there and they are willing to pay for it. Same with the hot dog.

People are willing to pay for RCU because it fits a need for them and they believe in it.

The reason they don't like paying for AMA is they have a need for AMA insurance, which is less than $15 of the total of what they have to pay. In order to get that insurance, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PAY FOR A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN AND DON'T WANT!

I give to a lot of things, but due to the need for AMA insurance to fly at every flying field I want to fly in or contests I want to fly in, I am forced to pay for all the other crap that goes with it that I don't want to pay for because I don't believe in them.

I know there are a lot of "just shut up and pay your dues" types out there that are going to have a problem with that statement and give all kinds of "you don't need AMA if you don't want it" but in the real world, if you want to do anything but just fly in a field, you have to have it.

That is why!

Crashem

P51-B,

I also read that post and noticed that with supposedly 30,000 + members less the 500 voted and the thread was closed by RCADMIN after only 211 responses. Not exactly a overwhelming response either for or against making RCU FEE Based.

But I can tell you given the choice of paying for RCU or AMA then it would defiantly be Bye Bye RCU!!!!!!!!!

Gordo-ProBro

Well, let's see,

Where can I get advice for my new plane? RCU

Where can I get a new Idea? RCU

Where do I go to find a used part? RCU

Where do I find ALL sides of any issue? RCU

Where so I find new friends who are not the "norm" of AMA Fliers? RCU

Where do I get info on control line scale carrier combat? Oh, that's AMA

OK< so why do I pay for AMA? Oh yea, Mark hasn't offered insurance yet!

Gordon

BillHarris

We pay AMA dues and get the insurance and SIGs and national support.

RCU is a cornucopia of info, and it's great that it is free. However, servers and support ain't cheap, and I wouldn't mind passing the hat. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch...

Crashem

Bill I do agree with... however if RCU started out as a fee based site do you think it would be the "cornucopia of info" it is today?

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I can't see why it wouldn't. There are a ton of people in the hobby that both need the info and are willing to share the info that see the benefit of RCU. There are a lot who want the info but are not willing to help support the site. I am sure a bunch would quit because they don't feel they get a dollar a month worth of service from RCU, but my question is, if RCU isn't worth a buck a month to them, why are they here now?

You don't get RCM for free, or flying models, or any other magazine. You can get more info from this site in a day than you could get from a magazine in years, plus if you have a question, you get a bunch of different views of a solution or answer to help you get the problem solved. Whats that worth?

BillHarris

> however if RCU started out as a fee based site do you think it would be the "cornucopia of info" it is today?<

I think it would, too. Many of the hard-core members would continue to participate. Remember, with all the hoopla 3-4 years back with RCO and the shafting folks got from "Fast Eddie", the info and exchange kept coming.

But we'll see where it goes.

>You can get more info from this site in a day than you could get from a magazine in years, plus if you have a question, you get a bunch of different views of a solution or answer to help you get the problem solved. <

And solved immediately, with interactive feedback. Sometimes with more than we bargain for...

pinball-RCU

a) there were plenty of folks who said they wouldn't pay a penny for RCU. And those that said they would didn't actually have to pay, they just said they they would pay in theory if it came to that. Things are different when people really have to reach into their billfolds. Marc won't tell us how many people who just read forums (the people who sell stuff are different) actually donate to RCU, but I would guess it's a small number.

b) after reading all 200+ posts, I don't think the same arguments apply at all. The RCU decision seems to me to hinge on whether you see the Internet as a community of folks helping each other vs commercial ventures taking over. The AMA haters don't like bureaucracies, and I don't think there's much danger of RCU becoming that in the forseeable future. If it did get big enough to be bureaucratic, you might see the same feelings emerge.

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

however if RCU started out as a fee based site do you think it would be the "cornucopia of info" it is today

Lets not confuse "cornucopia of info" to number of members, if RCU opened its WEB as a pay site It would not have nearly the number of members (perhaps depending on the amount of fee) but information would be plentiful . Obviously we will never know for sure, you can't compare want happens to a site that starts out free and then goes Pay, to one that started out a Pay site. The only experience I have with one that did so was "Photopoint.com" I believe, it started free, went to pay, and went out of business after being acquired .


I've been selling,trading and buying R/C for several years online now and have noticed a few things about MANY ,NOT ALL, R/Cs spending habbits.
If its something they really want or maybe need, price means very little. R/Cers don't like to see anyone make a dollar or profit off anything, doesn't matter if its the manufacturer the LHS, or a buddy at the Swap Shop, for some reason MANY, NOT ALL seem to think that all hobby stuff should be sold at just enough above manufacturing cost to stay in business, or less than what you paid. Many of the AMA "COST" complainers are the same people that complain about landing and contest fees for Fun-Flys and Fly-Ins, Table fees at the Swap Shop, Club Dues , Etc. MANY will not support something beyond what is in front of their face or in their hand. Many don't want to support aspects of Model Aviation they are not interested in, MANY feel they should be presented with a plate full of goodies with their AMA card.

The AMA dues at this time are $58.00 , A real bargain for the insurance alone , even for secondary insurance, But the fact that only a portion of it goes for actually premium the other portions are supporting something else, Like employee salary's, office equipment, research, building and maintenance, competition. And the fact that the AMA employees and Volunteers may have a nicer facility to work in or better employee Benefits than Some of the members seems to really burn some hide. Many just can't see supporting something they can't SEE, FEEL , Or TOUCH , or dosen't instantly give them something or kiss their butts.

But as I see it , MANY members, as I, want to support all aspects of Model Aviation , I am glad the AMA employees have a nice facility to work in and hopefully good Employee Benefits, I am glad the AMA HQ is a professional facility, I am glad the NATS has a facility that can properly support it. I really don't care where its located. I am glad we have an organization that at least gives the appearance we are responsible hobbyist and not a bunch of kids with toys. Even 170,000 members looks better on paper than a handful of hobbyists in you county.

I do believe some of the spending could be done more efficiently, no organization is perfect, But I am certainly not going to scrap the organization or not join because I disagree with a few policies.

In case a few do not know, MANY does not mean ALL, it does not mean Everybody, It does not mean a great number, IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN YOU, it means a portion, more than one, perhaps a percentage.

agentbishop

Well, I know when I was searching around on the Internet and found this message board, if it would have been a pay site at the time I would not have wondered in here. But since being here I feel that it is worth the $10-$15 a year or whatever. Point is I would have explored other sources of information and so would many of the members here I'm sure if it were a pay site when we signed up. I think most current members would stay and pay because they know what it has to offer but not many new members would join and a lot of discouraged newbies would probably get out of the hobby. Which is the opposite of what we want, I would think. It just depends on how they would do it. If I could have browsed for free but not posted, then maybe I would have decided that I have some questions than I would like to get answered or someones opinion of my idea or "how to."

I just have a question about AMA. Who sets up and who pays for the field and freq board and all that stuff. Doesn't AMA scan for freq interferences at the "AMA" fields. What part does AMA itself have in an "AMA" field.

Hossfly

>>>>>>>>>>>
agentbishop says: "I just have a question about AMA. Who sets up and who pays for the field and freq board and all that stuff. Doesn't AMA scan for freq interferences at the "AMA" fields. What part does AMA itself have in an "AMA" field.

flashingred-RCU

for all you flyers that object to dues for ama and think ama is there for just cheap insurance, perhaps you should start reading the ama monthly magazine and absorbing what is written in this magazine. true it is not rcm or man or rc report, but the magazine is improving on a monthly basis.

try talking to your ama district reps and find out what goes on behind the scenes at ama hq. better yet, if you go to such events as the toledo rc show or the ram show, stop by dave browns booth and talk to dave about what goes on behind the scenes and what ama is doing for us. dave is always willing to talk ama and he is real friendly.

who fought for the radio frequencies that we have today and the fact that after 9/11 we were able to keep our planes in the air. what about all the fields that could have been lost but were not because ama has stepped in to help your local club fight the politicians.

i could go on and on, but the best i can say is read model aviation from cover to cover and become informed.


flashingred

agentbishop

My mistake. I made that post prior to reading around about ama. I was being lazy, sorry. I, at the time, didn't know what AMA really did. I'm grateful now =)

Crashem

David I think it may be you who is confusing cornucopia of info" to number of members. I do not believe this site would have even a fraction of the info it has if it had started out fee based.

Also the 30,000 plus members may be technically correct but I would be suprised if there were more 2,000-3,000 "active" members. In all the time I've been here (approx 6 months) I've noticed that the same "core" group fields the questions and topics. As far a the online reviews go I can honestly say I've only read one and didn't find it much different then those found in MAN, RCM, etc...

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

I said Information would be plentiful, I did not say it would be as good as it is now, it would not have grown to its current size but with the many features and depending on the cost word of mouth would get around and I suspect eventually a decient amount of members would join, I would also suspect it would be mostly experienced Modelers , with as many free sites as there are I would guess that most New Modelers would use those first.
AS you mentioned a Great deal of the members here are readers, and only a fraction of the entire membership post information on a regular bases, and I belive these would be many of the same folks that would pay to use it and continue to exchange information.

In all reality it is pointless to argue about what whould have happened , we are both Guessing , you may be right , I may be right , we will never know , but we could certianly find out what would happen if a free R/C site went pay, couldn't we.

Live Wire

I am one othe people that got there Tail Flamed you can not survive with out support. I f you want some thing good you are going to have to support It.