Hmmm...Somehow outsourcing is promoting the hobby??? But if done in house it isn't??? STL you seem to have an ever waffling position depending on the point you’re trying to make.


All this explaining...Bottom line… I guess...in your world...the more money you have the less freedom others must have. So it stands to reason…according to your rational…in the real world… if AMA can get enough money they can obtain a sort of critical mass and eclipse non-AMA hobbyists’ freedoms. At some point all will have to pay the King.

Doesn't matter, either way the AMA is utilizing their time accordingly and those who want a directory, will get one. I see about 6 out of 150,000 members who are opposed so far. But I do believe sending a directory to members is promoting the hobby, not a lot different then the communication channel we use right here, just on a more personal level.

Haven't you heard? The king has been replaced by a Constitution ... by the people for the people and so forth. And in the case of the AMA, they don't even have to pay a single penny to the taxman, so why wouldn't they raise as much cash as they could get. Like I said, if you think money doesn't equal power, you definitely don't live in my world, or universe for that matter.

And someone actually had the gaul to ask if the AMA Forum was a battleground..............

There...you have it...your way...anyway...everyway. You win… No way to argue your points since they are everywhere.

Actually I was taking your point of view and putting it into context. It seems that the only thing you want the AMA to do is focus on promotions. Sorry to confuse you, I should have been more descriptive.

I realized the day I joined the AMA that members are supposed to do 99.9% of the AMA promotions, with tools they provide, it wasn't that hard to figure out. But then again I've been a member of AOPA and EAA long before I found this hobby. I just assumed it was the same way here, I was wrong. Seems to me glow fuel has different effect on people then 100LL.

100LL is still cheaper per gallon.....

But Glow is availible in more colors than 100LL

I've read through the posts from today and I've had to remove a few of them because of attacks on others, and even what I have left is still borderline. Everybody needs to calm down and discuss this manner in a civil fashion. I urge everybody to take a deep breath and be nice to each other or I will close the thread down.

Ken

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE! I TEACH HIGH SCHOOL. MY KIDS ARE MORE MATURE THAN YOU. KEN SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN BEFORE IT DOES IRREPERABLE DAMAGE TO AMA. THESE GUYS OUGHT TO BE BUILDING AND FLYING

Even though you bring up another thread, IMO the information applies as well right here in this argument over AMA's financial operations which are an important aspect of RC model aviation and its future well-being. Perhaps the observations of Professor (Ph.D) Northwestern University (my oldest graduated there) Dr. David Zarefsky, may provide some insights.

"Argumentation: The Study of Effective Reasoning"
1. Argumentation is mostly a social and cooperative enterprise by which we find truth and resolve conflict.
2. Formal Logic adds surprisingly little to argumentation and persuasion.
3. Arguments and evidence fall into a handful of patterns -- and the ways to use and defeat these patterns are also few and clear.
Then there is another item, " The most fundamental form of human stupidity is forgetting what we were trying to do in the first place."

Another small tidbit espoused by the USAF's Air War College, circa 1963, was: "You cannot argue with ignorance." That is 'ignorant' being without knowledge of a subject -- like me and electrics -- that any argument cannot be of use if you don't know the subject. If one wishes to argue, then one should first become informed about the subject. Kinda' gives you some ammunition there like LOGIC! [X(]

Even though I personally don't look far and wide for why it is not, I see no reason why this forum should not be a battle ground. Now I am tangenting out into space a bit from the topic of the Directory, however there is a point and just maybe I can turn back shortly, or maybe longly.

There are a number of individuals of all walks of life, all ages, ranging from almost ZERO experience in the AMA and or RC model aviation, to many years in the AMA and very active in its operation, along with having participated in all forms of modeling. The very leadership of this AMA, the Executive Council, EC, is composed of 11 DVPs, and EVP, and a Pres. all of whom are supposedly well versed in all forms/disciplines of model aviation and are well dedicated to the promotion, protection and enhancement thereof. We observe the results of their efforts on a daily basis. Still there is much differences of opinion within the masses.

Unfortunately so many come here to discuss those "results" so above stated. Some are well versed, most are not, some can provide specific details, others just get more confused, change the topics, go off on tangents into outer space, some appear less than literate in their writings, some appear near genius, etc., etc. There are all types in-between. There has to be a high degree of emotional sparks when such a diverse group in background, knowledge, desires, and a dozen or so other characteristics come to bear on some simple subject about one relatively unimportant item in the overall life of mankind and that item is toy airplanes.
Still it is very important to those that are passionate about the activity so battles will happen.

Then I find myself in a battle with someone, ON SOMEONE ELSE'S TURF. I have no stock or place of importance in RCU. While I have no reason to expect differently than what I get here, I do frequently find myself feeling mistreated and being unfairly treated by those that do own the turf. THAT IS MY PROBLEM AND I NEED TO GET OVER IT OR LEAVE. So I say the same to you if you are one of those that cannot tolerate any heat in your direction, then don't blame the flame-throwers, either get better insulated or go elsewhere.

An example is in this very thread. I submitted this complaint:

Oops! As I was about to give that example, here comes the news that another has been corrected for errors in, shall I say -- attempts to paraphrase my words -- and the example is no longer valid. So there it goes, maybe I am not so picked on after all. It is so easy to perceive being the object of persecution, when in all reality the mind is simply playing the tune one wishes to hear?

Now this example: When I served as an AMA DVP, I started with the idea that I would never say NO to an idea, but always "I will try..." Know what, most of those ideas had been tried before and found wanting. Like I was to the DVP before me, they were to me, with every right to be so, thinking that as I made excuses (actually presented reasons -- logic) I was just spreading the BS to them.
No matter how well one can find quick solutions to the problems of someone else, it is very possible that those problems are just a bit more complicated than the outsider perceives, and have already been evaluated and found insufficient. So I had to eat my words and say "NO" every so often. That was a frustrating thing, yet it was a fact of life. Again MY PROBLEM!

So, in the overall reality of this forum, there is no need for it if confrontation is not acceptable. It has to happen. In my opinion this forum is not a place for newbies because every question/answer concerning a newbie is available on the AMA Web site. Again IMO, this place should exist to discuss the future of AMA, what should AMA be doing / not doing and the reasons for AMA to or not to exist. As it was also presented to me once upon a time long ago, "If enough bombs are dropped (darts thrown at the board) someone is probably going to hit the target." That means a lot of little explosions somewhere around the target. [>:]

As trying to attain the position of AMA's EVP or Pres., my purpose was/is to redirect AMA to more lucrative asset-seeking than the nickel & dime operations now engaged in. Just getting a 1000 new members is $58,000. 10,000 new members is $580,000. Making MA break even, including the pay and benefits for its staff, would bring in a net of some $1,700,000.00. So DVDs and book things simply bore me.

And to close, the statement that I pushed for an AMA Foundation to bring in more money is simply a figment of some individual's imagination.
I have championed the AMA Foundation to maintain the IRC 501 (c) (3) along with a for-profit lead corporation that can accept after-tax donation dollars to permit that portion of AMA to lead the fights against any governmental restrictions on RC modeling, of any sort. No recommendations of AMA using a foundation to make more money have been expressed.

Thank You all and Good Night!

Well, apparently some don't believe that the guidelines for the AMA Forum don't apply to them. Unfortunately the guidelines apply to all members here in this forum. The discussion in this thread has proceeded for quite some time and now I get the feeling that all that's left is for everybody to start attacking each other. That's not going to happen. I meant it when I stated that RCU is going to see these forums get back to more civil behavior in this forum.

Thread closed.

Ken