If the 2.4 tier got a seperate magazine,
shouldnt it be in binary, page after page full of little 1's & 0's

Kid you are THE MAN! I am still chuckling.

Another great idea it is time for, start a AMA club on 72mz all on the same channel, say 43. That way only one guy at a time can fly, much safer!

K3 VF-

I get the impression your answer to OP's query is no. OK by me, as there are alternatives for a group of guys with their eyes on a site within a 3 mile radius of another club that digs their heels in re 'squatter's rights' to the air and frequency space. All involve exercising their rights as citizens, not constrained by AMA in any way except when/if they join AMA. I presume the only reason they would want to charter a club with AMA is because the property owner requires that the group insure him against liability exposure. So let them charter with The Hartford Model Airplane Insurance Assn, or Farmers, Allstate, etc. No need to expand on that - it has been discussed here ad nauseum. So no problem, let the status quo ride. Status quo is something of a fundamental tenet in AMA, and there's no need to rile the true believers over something as small as this issue.

Abel

Change is good sometimes, segregation is bad most of the time. An all 2.4 club would keep 75% of our club members out of the air, we still have a few guys flying with gold stickers on their transmitters.

Imagine a father and his son showing up at your "future of RC" club with his brand new Tower Trainer on channel 15, and he needs someone to teach him how to fly it. "I'm sorry son, but we all own transmitters that cost more than your whole setup." "If you want to fly here you gotta invest $300-$400 more than you already have."

The "most people will be flying 2.4 in 5 years" doesn't wash either. How many 72 systems are going to be for sale (ebay) if your 5 year theory comes true, and how many "new people" will be buying them expecting to use them?

Heli clubs and glider clubs make it obvious as to what membership is based on, frequency based clubs would split the community and create problems the hobby doesn't need.

I still fly 72mhz and I don't plan on going to 2.4 in the near, or even far future. Too much invested in 72 receivers and the cost of replacing a dozen of them with 2.4's is a big turn off. If my club decided to go all 2.4 it would be a very lonely club, and as long as I'm the Pres, it won't. We still require a card in the slot and a clip on the transmitter in order to fly at our fields no matter what system you have, it keeps it safe and it assures people with both types of system don't get complacent when it comes to turning a transmitter on.

Here's another one fore you then. There is a club in this area that is Gliders only. They have multiple fields to use.

The weird thing is, they don't get their own magazine, and they pay the same rate to support the AMA as everyone else...well everyone except the priveleged PPP group.

I knew the folks in Mich had common sense, thank you.

Interesting,
The OP didnt really specify if the propsed All 2.4 club was a standard AMA club or a AMA PPP club. I am assuming all the posts so far had a standard club in mind.

Would a PPP club be any more or any less likely to go 2.4 Only ?
... or similar enough that we can just group them together for this thread.

I think the issue is the same for any new (or established, in some instances) club, 'regular' or pee-pee.

A couple of folks (Rebsix and k3 Valley Flyer) have opined against the notion. To them: it's clear that you would not not want to belong to a SS-only (I use that term because SS R/C gear is now available in bands other than 2.4 GHz, e.g., 900 MHz and projected for 500 MHz) club. I think more on-topic would be a reply to the question "should AMA allow SS-only chartered clubs, if that is what the club members want?"

The example of why a club with a potential site in proximity of another club might want to has been discussed. Another example is a club located where interference on the allocated 72 Mhz band is too severe to continue operations. This happened to an AMA chartered club in Balboa Park in San Diego. The toll of models lost to RF interference became so alarming that the club decided it would be irresponsible to continue, citing the risk to other park users of out-of-control models and attendant liability risk to themselves. This was a few years ago, before availability of SS R/C and the club/flying site was abandoned, so this is hypothetical:

If the situation faced by this club happened today, should the club be allowed to go SS-only and so continue to exist?

Abel

Against the notion is correct to a point. In the case of the club Abel mentions the solution would be obvious and fortunately now 2.4, errr SS, would be the clear solution. But for an established club (over 30 years in my case) it would be a bad idea due to the problems I've mentioned above. We have no problems with interference (although some claim we do... ) and it would be pointless to separate people, or revoke memberships simply for a frequency. A lot of the older guys don't want to change out 40-50 years of gear for no reason other than the fear of someone turning a radio on.

To be "allowed" by the AMA to be chartered as a SS club only, seems like a moot point. If a club wanted to do such a thing wouldn't they just be an AMA chartered club as usual and make the SS only part of the club field rules or even by-laws? Why would I have to ask the AMA to allow me to do it when all the legal frequencies are still legal? Do glider clubs have to ask the AMA if they can be glider club only? I don't really know because we are a RC club and we let anything fly that any of the guys bring to the field on whatever type system they have as long as there is a current card on the board. What happens if someone is caught at the SS field using a 72 mhz radio, does the charter get revoked?

I fully agree with you on this. I don't think OP ever intended that SS-only would be for established clubs (or so I have presumed, he can speak for himself and does so capably). All my replies on the topic assume the motivation for a club to so restrict themselves to SS would be to obtain club charter from AMA for a flying site within 3 miles of an existing club, while bypassing the need to obtain an agreement for frequency sharing with said existing club.

Paragraph in reply above addresses why; it isn't a moot point.

As for what happens if someone is caught using a radio on a frequency not allowed by the club charter, I think the Safety Code addresses this. Local safety rules (and the SS-only restriction addresses a safety issue) are incorporated into the AMA SC by reference: AMA SC General heading "3. I will abide by this Safety Code and all rules established for the flying site I use. I will not willfully fly my model aircraft in a reckless and/or dangerous manner."
Violation of the SC is often included in club bylaws as a reason for expulsion; it is cited by AMA as reason for voiding insurance coverage - effectively same as revocation of charter.

Abel



[/quote]

[/quote]

The bold type is what I'm stating my points from, but there are a couple ways that it can be interpreted. As a club we've never had to worry about any special considerations like this.


[/quote]

Thank you for clearing that up for me abel, it answers both my questions and makes sense in both cases case.

That's enough quoting for me, my head hurts.

To me, an all 2.4 club , if needed, makes good sense. The only downside of a new 2.4 club locating in close proximity to an established club is too much of a good thing isn't always a good thing. I could see a situation where neighbors tolerate one established field, but a new one a mile or so down the road might not wash. But, this is hypothetical and would probably be a rare occurance.

I have re-worded the original post's question...After I re-read it I couldn't even figure out what I said.

Please excuse my poorly worded and written previous original...err... not so original post.

Oh sure, now we gotta start all over

Just trying to narrow the interpretations down some so we can expand on the topic better...you made a good point and it was well taken.

I hope most people here understood what I was trying to get at and hopefully we really do not need to start over but...

What else can I say????? My original post sucked,sucked,sucked!

LCS, b4 you rewrote this, it was almost beat to death and finished. New can of worms? An SS only club would limit the newbies simply because of investment to get into R/C. Hmmm. Where do I go from there? Is there more than one club, say, within 20 miles from where I live? How many newbies would drive more than that to fly and ....[:@](rekit) Not very many from my guess. An all SS club is just bad medicine.

[8D]I forgot one very important part.------The SS guys can fly at my 72mhz field, but I can't fly my 72mhz at their field! Equality!!![>:] This is simply segregation--we already fought that battle at our flying field with gliders, control line, 3-D, helicopters, sport flyer all at once--ya'll won! The 3mile radius must be imposed for that one flyer that wants to use 72mhz. No! To the all SS club![8D]

I guess the only thing a new all SS club would allow is close proximity to a the typical, already existing club. No frequency conflicts…no frequency agreements… no problem…It doesn’t take anything away…it just gives more options…more freedom for newly forming clubs.

There would be no need for changes to any existing club or any other mandates by AMA for all clubs to become SS only… newly forming clubs would have the option to be SS only…or existing clubs could opt to be SS only if they desire but not very likely in most cases.

It would only enable new clubs to form without any restriction/ok from an existing club.

I don't know about that. Those pesky glider guiders are still showing up![X(]

Sure, more freedom, etc...Right! A new guy is in town, asks a local about a local flying field and is told about this field down the road. (2.4only) The new guy drives out, cranks up his 72mhz and lo and behold---someone is flying at the other field....disaster...Not something you want to think about?...Well, I do. Don't tell me that everyone must read all the signs and all the other stuff at a flying field. They are pretty much generic. I moved around alot and some of the places I have flown were not for R/C flying (Ret AF)...Some thing to think about...The 3mile radius must be imposed! Example--In Okinawa I was playing with R/C cars about 1/2 mile from the guys flying. My radio was for surface only. Maybe the airborne radio was also on the same freq. Anyway, they asked me to find a new place to drive my car 'cause I was interferring with the aircraft radio? Interesting?

Ops! That wasn't supposed to be underlined. Sorry 'bout that! And this guy has more teeth than I do.[] Oh well, cresent wrenches take their toll.[8D]

Well... if the club in question would simply impose and enforce a 50 mile radius ban of guests and only allow club members to fly there, the club will then have ample opportunity to instruct him of proper freq. use when he is accepted...problem solved...just as they have rules on other aspects of freq. control, so would this be.

See, the secret is to have a greater area of restriction and impose more rules. Less freedom is more better.


BTW these types of what-if scenarios, as the one you used, are exactly the basis for greater areas of restriction...even heard of one club that had a fifty mile radius restriction on guests.

At one time the AMA even had a no tail touch rule also based on what-ifs…guess what…no ifs.

BTW in your hypothetical of disaster, your un-invited guest failed to pull the pin at the freq. board. That is a standard that he overlooked at this generic field you outlined...he made the unforgivable mistake that shoots others down… even at the same field. In this hypothetical at least three mistakes were made to allow this disaster. Not reading the big sign in red letters...2.4 SS only, using the field without invite and proper instruction and most importantly no use of freq. control. Whether initially alone or while with others, freq. control is first and foremost at any field. Even If you are alone another can arrive and blow you out of the air...or you he. You must secure the freq.!!!!

In the 2.4 club scenario a sign would be in place of freq. control board making the necessary explanations. Easy…


Oh while I am at it, consider the fact that most of us in the hobby aren't even in the AMA anyway and therefore do not even know about the 3 mile separation rule. Whether we like it or not our neighbors are using 72 MHz all the time. Impending disaster is around us...no way around it. The only way AMA can keep us safe in every instance is by forbidding us to fly R/C. I have become aware on numerous occasions of hobbyists flying within the current separation margin and have made them aware of us and invited them to fly with us...I am certain there are many, many more. Three mile separation is just a feel good bad joke IMO.


Now what ya got...

No because both the 72 band and the 2.4 band still travel in a wave form. (plus, I would have to buy a translator since I haven't converted anything to binary in years...)