Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
05-23-2008, 12:52 PM
#101
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
Many of us intend the follow the law? Really? Who are you trying to sell that too? I've been to many events and many flying sites. I know the difference of people saying they have intention of following the law and even the AMA safety code, but not as naieve to believe they mean what they say. You're selling your statement to the wrong person LCS, I've seen it over and over many times with my own eyes.
Also I am FAR from a proponent of more rules and regulations, however not in denial of what the book clearly says. I was quite happy with the AMA ruling on paintballing, which before was completely undecided on their end until they decided to make a more clear definition. They did ... any now we can paintball our planes and not worry "as much" if the AMA was going to pay if there was an accident.
You don't know me or what I stand for LCS, you can't judge me and I won't judge you. You see nothing more then keystrokes across your computer screen and read the words how you feel fit. But like I said ... off these forums is the real world, this place is no more than just a fantasy.
Also I am FAR from a proponent of more rules and regulations, however not in denial of what the book clearly says. I was quite happy with the AMA ruling on paintballing, which before was completely undecided on their end until they decided to make a more clear definition. They did ... any now we can paintball our planes and not worry "as much" if the AMA was going to pay if there was an accident.
You don't know me or what I stand for LCS, you can't judge me and I won't judge you. You see nothing more then keystrokes across your computer screen and read the words how you feel fit. But like I said ... off these forums is the real world, this place is no more than just a fantasy.
05-23-2008, 12:57 PM
#102
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Just for the record, not what I say, what the FAR says. But yes, model aircraft can fly through controlled airspace, as long as they obtain authority first. As a pilot you should know what that means.
The poilicy statement of the UAS, which is part of the FAR:
For UAS operating as public aircraft the authority is the
COA, for UAS operating as civil aircraft the authority is special
airworthiness certificates, and for model aircraft the authority is AC
91-57.
As a modeler I know you think the AC should be and is voluntary, it's your hobby. However the FAA says the authority is AC 91-57. I'll take their word for it first. That doesn't mean I'll keep my planes below 400', that means I know and will accept what will happen to me if I ever got caught or cause and incident. As an AMA member you should know the AMA safety code says you must stay below 400' as well when flying under their roof too. No different then hovering you model plane over a crowd of children at a club's flying site.
That is true but I was acctually refering to the applicability to part 91. If what you say is true then model aircraft can fly through controlled airspace as all others do.
The poilicy statement of the UAS, which is part of the FAR:
For UAS operating as public aircraft the authority is the
COA, for UAS operating as civil aircraft the authority is special
airworthiness certificates, and for model aircraft the authority is AC
91-57.
As a modeler I know you think the AC should be and is voluntary, it's your hobby. However the FAA says the authority is AC 91-57. I'll take their word for it first. That doesn't mean I'll keep my planes below 400', that means I know and will accept what will happen to me if I ever got caught or cause and incident. As an AMA member you should know the AMA safety code says you must stay below 400' as well when flying under their roof too. No different then hovering you model plane over a crowd of children at a club's flying site.
STL
It sounds to me like you are begaining to contradict yourself but in
any case at this point in time we modelers dont have a beef with
the FAA.
05-23-2008, 12:58 PM
#103
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
Just for the record, not what I say, what the FAR says. But yes, model aircraft can fly through controlled airspace, as long as they obtain authority first.
The poilicy statement of the UAS, which is part of the FAR:
and for model aircraft the authority is AC
91-57.
91-57.
As a modeler I know you think the AC should be and is voluntary, it's your hobby.
As an AMA member you should know the AMA safety code says you must stay below 400' as well when flying under their roof too.
05-23-2008, 01:01 PM
#104
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
STL sounds like the typical beuracrat. He wants us to follow the law and doesn't mind if it controls every part of our lives, but he doesn't intend to follow the laws himself. In this case he is safe because his law doesn't exist, and no one has gone to jail or has been fined for flying over 400 feet.
05-23-2008, 01:05 PM
#105
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
It sounds to me like you are begaining to contradict yourself but in
any case at this point in time we modelers dont have a beef with
the FAA.
any case at this point in time we modelers dont have a beef with
the FAA.
05-23-2008, 01:15 PM
#107
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
A policy statement is not part of the FAR, it has teeth but it is not the FAR.
I have a full scale pilots licence. Besides read the first line of the AC it says its voluntary, the policy statement doesn't say otherwise.
Also I really don't care if you follow the law or not. However someone claiming that it's ok to fly model aicraft in controlled airspace or above 400' should at least take the time to cite the source.
05-23-2008, 02:14 PM
#108
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
The UAS is a policy statement, a CFR and also now part of the FAR under part 91. It has teeth as do all CFRs.
Also I really don't care if you follow the law or not. However someone claiming that it's ok to fly model aicraft in controlled airspace or above 400' should at least take the time to cite the source.
Typical of someone who keeps ripping regulations and policy statements for proof, you do not understand what you post.
The fact is the FAA does not cover model aircraft except for Advisory Circular 91-57. We have never been a problem before and I would rather keep it that way. Since we have not been a problem I don't see why the sailplane pilots cannot continue to fly in the less restrictive controlled airspace's without calling the FAA before hand. Just as an owner of a radio less J-3 Cub does not have to have radio contact with the FAA through these controlled airspaces, we should also not have to contact the FAA, and especially not by radio. We need to be sure that the FAA does not use this to gain further control of our flying habits.
05-23-2008, 02:16 PM
#109
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
It has teeth, I said as much before. But has nothing to do with model airplanes, it plainly says so.
Which doesn't change a thing it is still an Advisory Circular
There is no source. You keep trying to fine sources to say they cannot. Because there is nothing that says they must, the can fly in controlled airspace. You claim that part 91 applies to model aircraft. If so then model aircraft have the same authority to enter controlled airspace. That means that they do not have to obtain permission to enter 90% of the controled airspace. For the most part that is all areas above 1200 feet that is not part of airports TCA's or other special use airspace.
Typical of someone who keeps ripping regulations and policy statements for proof, you do not understand what you post.
The fact is the FAA does not cover model aircraft except for Advisory Circular 91-57. We have never been a problem before and I would rather keep it that way. Since we have not been a problem I don't see why the sailplane pilots cannot continue to fly in the less restrictive controlled airspace's without calling the FAA before hand. Just as an owner of a radio less J-3 Cub does not have to have radio contact with the FAA through these controlled airspaces, we should also not have to contact the FAA, and especially not by radio. We need to be sure that the FAA does not use this to gain further control of our flying habits.
The UAS is a policy statement, a CFR and also now part of the FAR under part 91. It has teeth as do all CFRs.
The UAS says that AC 91-57 is the authority for model aircraft, plainly typed.
Also I really don't care if you follow the law or not. However someone claiming that it's ok to fly model aicraft in controlled airspace or above 400' should at least take the time to cite the source.
Typical of someone who keeps ripping regulations and policy statements for proof, you do not understand what you post.
The fact is the FAA does not cover model aircraft except for Advisory Circular 91-57. We have never been a problem before and I would rather keep it that way. Since we have not been a problem I don't see why the sailplane pilots cannot continue to fly in the less restrictive controlled airspace's without calling the FAA before hand. Just as an owner of a radio less J-3 Cub does not have to have radio contact with the FAA through these controlled airspaces, we should also not have to contact the FAA, and especially not by radio. We need to be sure that the FAA does not use this to gain further control of our flying habits.
05-23-2008, 02:30 PM
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
.......... AMA doesn't say you should fly below 400 feet in all areas. Only the FAA says that. The AMA says it applies when near airports. That I agree with. The FAA says it applies in all areas. I don't agree with them on that.
.......... AMA doesn't say you should fly below 400 feet in all areas. Only the FAA says that. The AMA says it applies when near airports. That I agree with. The FAA says it applies in all areas. I don't agree with them on that.
AMA's rule allows you more freedom than FAA's rule and everybody knows AMA is a higher authority than FAA, so screw FAA and their rules, right?
Abel
05-23-2008, 03:17 PM
#111
RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
AMA's rule allows you more freedom than FAA's rule and everybody knows AMA is a higher authority than FAA, so screw FAA and their rules, right?
BTW the FAA says they have no problems with the AMA rule, so apparently they agree with me.
05-23-2008, 04:15 PM
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Abel, an AC is not a rule this AC say's this is an advisory and compliance is voluntary. So yes I can legally do just as you say.
AMA's rule allows you more freedom than FAA's rule and everybody knows AMA is a higher authority than FAA, so screw FAA and their rules, right?
BTW the FAA says they have no problems with the AMA rule, so apparently they agree with me.
Abel
05-23-2008, 11:20 PM
#113
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Even flying in a TCA doesn't require an IFR flight plan. I think he must have been thinking of the flight level airspace at FL 18 and above.
Even flying in a TCA doesn't require an IFR flight plan. I think he must have been thinking of the flight level airspace at FL 18 and above.
No qualms.Mean Monte
05-24-2008, 12:04 AM
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
But then again. Our flying field in Okinawa was within a TCA. (FAA rules still apply.) So, go figure...I can't remember the floor of the TCA, nor do I care, but that would be a great consideration here in the States. A model airplane is not (in most cases) going to interfere with the normal operations of full scale aircraft in the airport traffic area or tca as long as the model stays away from final approach and climb out of the runway...We have flown from the ramps before with no problems...Most VFR traffic patterns are based on 700' agl so. Okay, I'll give you pesky glider guys some slack here, but the normal model will not get that high...Go ahead and tell me it will and I will tell you to controll the damn thing when it gets that high!!! Personally, I can't see what my 1/4 scale is doing that high. Left wing up or down??? Is it inverted? Who knows???? Press on...I think I remember this is supposed to be about the definition of a model airplane...So, here I go...A model airplane is that craft that is soley used for the amusement/entertainment/stress relief/enjoyment of the said modeler. (Should that be 2 l's?) Oh yeah, spectators too...
If any of you FAA types think I am wrong just let me know. I have been out of the business for about 16years...Hmmm...doesn't seem that long...the first 20 was for ever!!!![&:][&:]
If any of you FAA types think I am wrong just let me know. I have been out of the business for about 16years...Hmmm...doesn't seem that long...the first 20 was for ever!!!![&:][&:]
05-24-2008, 09:00 AM
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
Monte,
But you gotta remember that places like Greater Los Angeles - Orange (1/3 of Socal)
have almost every sq foot of land in or under class D/C/B Ceilings. Look at Cable, they had to take a divot out of the Ontaorio airspace to allow those GA planes to get to a real airport.
Just what airspace are you guys talking about with Controlled & ... OuttaControl classification?
TCA's?
Why not for the sake of simplicity first discuss how RC Model Flight would fit into plain Class G & Class E, before trying to talk about incursions into TCA's & the FL's upstairs.
Take a G airspace under a 700' Class E.
You got 700' of G where you are as just as regulated as the p103 Ultralights (no steenkin badges),
but the feds have been asking you to only use 400'.
Now they are saying if you do not do as we ask to be considered a model,
then you are no longer considered a model.
If you fly like a model, you are a model.
If you dont fly inside AC91-57 then you are not a model.
If you are not a model because you dont fly within AC91-57,
then Lucy- You got some splanin' to do.
But you gotta remember that places like Greater Los Angeles - Orange (1/3 of Socal)
have almost every sq foot of land in or under class D/C/B Ceilings. Look at Cable, they had to take a divot out of the Ontaorio airspace to allow those GA planes to get to a real airport.
Just what airspace are you guys talking about with Controlled & ... OuttaControl classification?
TCA's?
Why not for the sake of simplicity first discuss how RC Model Flight would fit into plain Class G & Class E, before trying to talk about incursions into TCA's & the FL's upstairs.
Take a G airspace under a 700' Class E.
You got 700' of G where you are as just as regulated as the p103 Ultralights (no steenkin badges),
but the feds have been asking you to only use 400'.
Now they are saying if you do not do as we ask to be considered a model,
then you are no longer considered a model.
If you fly like a model, you are a model.
If you dont fly inside AC91-57 then you are not a model.
If you are not a model because you dont fly within AC91-57,
then Lucy- You got some splanin' to do.
05-24-2008, 01:32 PM
#116
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
Okay Kid,
I'll get off my references to full scale aircraft. As for model planes (see how that is worded?) if one flies his model plane within the "resonable man theroy," there should be no problems.
Monte
I'll get off my references to full scale aircraft. As for model planes (see how that is worded?) if one flies his model plane within the "resonable man theroy," there should be no problems.
Monte
05-24-2008, 02:12 PM
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RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
Man, there have been more twists and turns in this thread than in your typical country road.
I'm just making a logical guess that if "We" are having so much trouble with things as defined, the "clarification of model aircraft definition" is being addressed to clear us all up and we may very well be tied to the AC.
Thanks for the opinions, folks
Greg S
I'm just making a logical guess that if "We" are having so much trouble with things as defined, the "clarification of model aircraft definition" is being addressed to clear us all up and we may very well be tied to the AC.
Thanks for the opinions, folks
Greg S
