STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well seeing the open membership is on the decline ... how many of that used to carry open memberships are now considered "saves". You know ... the difference between a goalie in the net ... or just an "open" net.

The Toolman

Hey Kid, I figured out a new name for the PPP's suppliers-"Prosperity through Explotation"



Ronnie

Stickbuilder

Just as long as those, who like you, would argue with a post, then hopefully, the membership will decline some more. It has never been proven that there is an actual need for a large membership in a hobby or group that is as specialized as are we. This has always been a small hobby, and as such, why would you expect to have millions of members?

The decline is in all probability due to a fairly large number who thought that flying model airplanes looked like a neat thing to do, and after finding out that it did require some dedication and some skills (although they are rapidly declining), they headed off for the next hot ticket item. Good riddance to them.

The decline is not, repeat NOT due to anyone not welcoming them into the existing clubs. Have you ever run into a bunch of skateboarders? Ever try to convince them into joining a sanctioned group? These weenies look at organizations as having RULES, and they just don't like rules of any kind.

If you can fly your model plane anywhere you can find an open area large enough to do so, why would you want or need to spend money that you do not have to? The vacant lots are full of these guys, and they are not interested in the PeePeeProgram, or any other program that has rules and order. Got it? Get it!

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Could care less about quantity, I look for quality. I also look for alternatives and selections. Remember Stick before the PPP the alternative for open membership was NOTHING. The SIGS are living and breathing proof that niche groups works. Let alons the hundreds or thousands of other membership based orgs. Also take away the insurance and magazine and you'll still have people that join organizations, just to be part of something, yes even some of those parking lot rebels. Better 1 than none.

What I see are 40 year old plus men upset because someone else is now getting the attention. Calling the program "pee pee", you've even got Hoss doing it. I mean come on the PPP has no effect on the open program, your rates did not go up this year ... and still nothing but kicking and screaming by a handful of so called "members" that are trying to publicly defame and organization they constantly say they support, just because the AMA isn't giving you guys more than they already do.

Also you have no idea what's causing the decline other than some made up theories, so I don't need to address that. When you show me some stats to debate, we can talk about that.

kid chuckles

You know might not be long before alot of us HAVE to go to the PPP and smaller planes just to afford to fly at all. Planes are going up everyday. Fuel is going up. Costs more to get to the field, you fella's know what i mean it just costs about twice as much to fly as this time last yr. Just on getting to the field. IF someone can come up with a cheaper way to fly now that would be informative and useful. I have planes that will just barley fit the catagory. Some that are a little to fast (throttle control lol) I would never open er up. rofl. Just really for everyone can anybody say that there has been stuff posted here that you did not know and thus found out by the forum? Man i can. IF you can think of anything then it is informative.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I selected not informative and useful.

Most of the posts in this forum are individuals grinding their own personal axes, are responses to positions based on personal opinions, and are dominated by a small handful of individuals. Differing opinions regarding the role of AMA or interpretation of AMA documents lead to bashing, name calling, and flaming.

I check in to read occassionally, but rarely contribute because most of those reading this forum are not seeking information or opinions, but only agreement with their own views.

Brad

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

To be fair I can only guess you include yourself as one of those many that read looking for agreement with your views also, since you find the forum not informative and useful...makes sense looking at it that way. I agree (dang)…ahh…wait if I agree that makes the forum useful to you. Dang conundrums…

BTW on a previous query in this forum about this forum of whether or not to keep this forum open you voted yes...

I have a hard time reconciling why you wish to keep an uninformative and useless forum open...another brain teaser…thanks BK…thanks.


Seriously, I think many have similar viewpoints as BK and believe this forum should only exist to praise the AMA and blindly accept their personal decree of AMA as the official authority to license model airplane pilots. People seem to need that sort of nurturing teat to suckle even if only as a pacifier. Fortunately there are others that want to utilize AMA as a tool to promote the hobby to heights greater and beyond the AMA.

At some point little birdies should not need to be feed by regurgitation but spread their wings and fly on their own and make nests the way they want them…that is what AMA is truly about…too often some of the overbearing doting turkeys can’t see that…what a shame!

KidEpoxy

STL
I am way more than happy to support your theory on this
by having PPP run seperate books and accounting
to show that AMA general fund is not subsidizing it.

You propose it is not a parasite on the rest of us
and the ledgers should show that the 600 folks that paid their $19
<$29 less the $10 charge of the parkie quarterly mag>
should wholely pay for all the PPP printed materials & advertizements,
and STAFF TIME SPENT on those materials.

$1200 spent by Muncie on PPP so far?
Anyone believe Muncie has spent less than $1200 on all the ads, materials, & STAFF for PPP so far?
And the spending year aint done yet by a longshot

STL
YOU propose it is not a parasite on the Opens,
we will be happy to see the $in & $out of it to support your position,
just as we see the $1mil in $2mil out that MA Magazine runs.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I enjoy how you keep telling us how you and your AMA club is the one doing all the promotions, not realizing that you've just discovered the point of the AMA in first place. The AMA is the group that brings the modelers together so that the CLUBS do almost all of the legwork. Their higher mission of YOU promoting is EXACTLY why they are in business.

Proof? Well did the AMA increase dues this year, when the PPP was launched? No, there is your proof. If you have all these questions, day in and day out ... month after month, why don't you become part of the AMA in a greater capacity so that you can sleep better at nite. You forget, PPP's PAY THEIR SHARE, they are not members for free.

But even if there was overhead to jumpstart the PPP program, GOOOD!!! It's part of the AMA process of promoting the AMA by GETTING MORE MEMBERS.

Why can't you guys just enjoy your benefits, enjoy the hobby AND SUPPORT your organziation????? Why does it bother you SOO frickin much?

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I find it hard to believe that you took the time to correlate my previous opinion to keep this forum open with my opinion that it is not informative and useful. [:-]

Note that one of the choices in the poll was not "entertaining"

There are many things I read that are not informative or useful, but I find entertaining.

Brad

KidEpoxy

STL
How many of the past 3 years has AMA run in the red on the bottom line?
AMA has aquired a pretty good holdings of assets,
and dues didnt drop the years they were gaining holdings.... must the same as dues didnt go up the year they outspent themselves.

So we know full well thet they may outspend themselves silly for years without actually raising dues,
or they may simpley outspend themselves a little one year without raising dues,
or they may subsidize PPP without raising dues,
by using the monies they have in holdings.

You know that full well,
and we see this completely incorrect "proof" that dues demonstrate solvency proposed.

Stickbuilder

I would say that my thoeries about what is causing the decline is as valid as is yours. You don't feel the need to address that, since you aren't equipped to do so. Your statement is lame.

Bill, AMA 4720

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

And you, to come back to see who agreed with your post as well.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Wrong. Don't try to spin this one.

You are the one that is on record as saying AMA is a service provider. I am the one that has always maintained AMA was conceived with the intent to promote the hobby. Matter of fact; the insurance benefit for members didn't happen for about fourty years or so after AMA was founded.

You keep confusing the audience with your perfectly reasonably sounding erroneous assertions.

I have been trying to teach you for quite some time what the AMA is but you have particularly thick/slow. Maybe you are starting to get some idea now. I can only hope…maybe one day you will understand.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Might want to re-adjust your "fact" checking. Try 3 years after the AMA was formed.

It's funny how you continue to rant about how much better you are than the AMA. But you put your AMA club together with the tools the AMA provided for you. If it wasn't for them, would you have a club? Doesn't matter ... they did most of the work for you and now you have your club. But the AMA has done more in an hour than you've done in your whole life for the hobby. One things for sure, I don't hear them coming in here bashing you and your club like you do to them.

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

OK guys...Although a bit entertaining, isn't this a bit off topic...

I don't appreciate this thread being hijacked. Please open another thread to debate what AMA is or isn't. Actually I think there is already a thread that covers this topic, just not this one...

LLD

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I totally agree here. Let's get the thread back on subject please.

Ken

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

OK stl I certainly could be wrong. IF you can give substantiation that AMA had member insurance benefits 3 years after being formed I will certainly admit my error and this thread will then have some useful info about the AMA. AS it stands now this thread is about the forum. It would be interesting to learn AMA had been in the insurance business for all those years. Other than some now obscure printing where else can we learn such things?

Now the challenge...can you deliver?

KidEpoxy

yeah, RCKen is right
we should take the current lines of offtopic discussion to their own threads.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I agree but when someone is allowed to color this forum one way it is only fair that others are allowed to get out their box of crayons.

The bottom line; this forum is something different to each of us as is AMA and this thread is not really about AMA anyway or philosophical reasons about AMA.

Just go back to post #2, #9 & #12 and you will see where this thread went on trail to where it is. Even the original thread starter couldn’t stay on target.

But since you are right, I will start another thread looking for info as to how and when AMA got into the insurance business.

KidEpoxy

ooh, good job LCS
Your comment on taking the OffTopic out hit an OnTopic problem:

MisInformation, Disinformation, and Lies in the threads
by the folks either unaware of the correct info, or with more agenda than helpfulnes.
While there is plenty of information, much of is is speculation and wishful thinking presented as "fact" or "proof". Too many posts result in "cite source" and that never happening (or "Unnamed reliable sources"), or even with AMA text cited the topic shift to Interpreting what the meaning of the word IS is in attempts to negate the AMA text. <ex: PPP nomination ability>

It erodes confidence in the info found here,
and drags many threads way off topic in attempts to correct the erroneous statements,
and fosters threads like this one, questioning if the forum is informative & useful

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

I do declare, I think I've truly heard the pot calling the kettle black now.

Kanain

My Feedback: (1)

My initial poll response was - Could be more informative and useful. However, after witnessing yet another useless bantering and personal attack thread I would have to say overall USELESS.

As my post count shows, I do not often post and am not one to talk to hear myself think. While I welcome well throughout debate and encourage a strong felt belief, effective and constructive debate is only achieved when one spends more time listening than talking.

I have no axe to grind, I have no hidden agenda. I am a lifetime AMA member and support the underlying common cause. I do not support ANYTHING UNCONDITIONALLY and should not be considered either a stout AMA supporter or an AMA-Basher (bottom feeder or otherwise). I believe the AMA should support the hobby, its membership, and continue to promote education and provide a potential stepping stone from model aviation to full scale interests. I have said it before and will say it again - we all have a common interest in aviation or we wouldn't do what we do. I do not agree with every position or action taken by the AMA nor am I ignorant to the potential problem or risk of "outlaw flyers" (not my words) or possible financial and legal risk or benefit of the PPP program. However, AMA is represented by its members - YOU! It is not a THING SET APART, it is all of you. While certain leading officials seem to thing it is an US and THEM thing, apparently so do some of its members. This is evident from many posts of this kind in this forum.

I don't care if you support and defend the AMA or have legitimate criticism. At no point is it necessary or required for anyone to take a position in which they forsake all others. It is disrespectful and down right rude. Half of you would not act the way you do if you were actually face to face with another human being and I can assure you, you would not get away with it if you were face to face with me. If you are incapable of carrying on a civil debate, why should I bother to listen to any opinion you have or FACT you declare to be valid?

Me - I'm done with you.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

There are more of us who watch this forum than just you KK, you are not alone with your well stated sentiments.[sm=sleeping.gif]

Warbird Joe

I have read in this forum off and on and have totally given up on it. I have never seen so many grown men act like a bunch of cry babies like I have in here. This is supposed to be a learning site not an attack on people site. I would love to see things change in here because I would love to learn more of what the AMA is about but because of extreme childish adults that are in here (not everyone) many others and I cheated out of wealth of information.