I hate to open a can of worms but I feel for the future of our sport I must. I believe that the recent Park Flyer fenom has breathed new life into our sport and given us a few more years of life. Why do I say this because Park Flyers can avoid.....CLUBS AND "SANCTIONED" flying sites.

I recently was working in the basement of my apartment on several planes. A retired friend came in and expressed a real sincere interest in the hobby. He then went on to relate a bad expereince that he had which over a year ago turned him away from the hobby. He went to a "SANCTIONED" CLUB field near where I live in Delaware (I'll leave the club name out). He stated that the men who were present were hesitant to talk to him, short and acted "aloof" and were consuming alcohol. This is not the first time I have heard this about this particular "CLUB." He just decided that he would choose another hobby for himself and his wife and he did not know where else to fly. Oh, I'll add that the membership meeting was only once a year so unless one of these "aloof" guys is willing to take you under his wing you won't be flying. Needless to say I'm going to teach him how to fly.

Then this weekend I went to my son in laws place in central PA. He really wants to learn to fly. So I got on the AMA site and found a club field only (3) miles from his house. We drove to the field looked it over and I called the President and found that again the membership was only open at the January meeting once a year. So even though I am a current AMA member I can't teach him how to fly there. Now, I'm not going to rag on this club in PA because mabey if we drive down there one day I can hook him into a club member. Sadly though after I explained my situation on the phone I was not given an invitation as a visiting flyer to teach him there mabey once or twice a month.

Now I am going to brag on a field and a President. The Swan Harbor Flying Club in Harford County MD. I have been living in Canada for the past five years and moved back to the States for a break and to visit my kids. I will be returning to Canada in May. This club has allowed me with current AMA membership to fly at their field until I move back to Canada in May. No club meeting no voting just a greatly appreciated courtesy extended to a visiting flyer from the President at the request of another member. All my flying will be done this winter and I will be out of the way before things get heated up this summer. I plan on sending the club a donation even though I wasn't asked for one.

If all clubs had this attitude I believe our sport would continue to grow and flurish. Finding places to fly gas planes is getting extremely difficult and I believe that established fields need to bend over backwards to recruit new pilots not discourage them. I also believe that any field that is not doing that should be taken off the AMA listing.

This is just an observation and opinion!

I think the majority of the clubs out there have the Swan Harbor way of doing things. Most of the fields and clubs that i have been around have been noithing but helpfull and supportive of newcomers and vet pilots .

There has been a lot of discussion in this section recently about growing both AMA and club membership, and two of the examples you have posted are IMO poster children for how not to grow the hobby. Luckily enough when I started flying early last year I ran into just the opposite. I was welcomed as a visitor to both a club meeting and the flying field before joining and was encouraged to join and become a part.

OTOH, I disagree with your final comment. I don't think that AMA should be able to mandate that clubs accept new members. In the 10 months or so that I've been reading messages here I've heard of several clubs that have closed their membership, and I think that is/should be their decision alone. I can think of any number of reasons that a club would have to limit membership. Most facilities can only handle so many members comfortably, for instance, and may want to insure that those members they do have can be readily accomodated, etc. Bottom line, they are private clubs, should be allowed to run themselves as they see fit, and the less involvement AMA has in the day to day running of any given club the better off they (and all clubs) will be. I guess it boils down to being analogous to the old line about disagreeing with what one says, but defending their right to say it.

My comments are based on a club being operated on privately held land. If on publically owned (city, county, etc) then I would disagree with a closed membership. Even then, though, that should be between the club and the city/county, rather than AMA. The facility where I fly is owned by the county, but leased to the club to operate with the typical requirements for AMA membership for insurance purposes, and it's use is limited to club members. Guests are welcome, and may fly if they hold AMA membership and are accompanied by a member. I don't believe that there are any comments one way or the other in the lease agreement about limiting/not limiting membership, but am not totally sure.

First up, I believe you were talking about AMA. AMA sanctions events. They charter clubs. They don't "Sanction" clubs or fields.

Clubs that have limited resources are not required to recruit, or even train, new members. Hurrah for those who do, but they are not required or paid to do so.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

Watch out,
some folks here will say your SiL needs to move from his house to fly,
since he chose to live within the 3mile radio footprint of an "Etsablished" club.
Since the club is "Established" and your SiL lives within 3miles, your SiL is wrong.
Sorry, but that is their take on it:
Your SiL would be a horrible person for thinking he can fly a PF in his yard,
within 3miles of a club that wont let folks in.


That is the way we are handling the threat you mention in the OP.
Some want to AMA to bury its head and just throw dung at folks that want to PF in their own yard,
which will obviously swell the ranks and foster goodwill toward AMA (somehow).

I think everyone should first serve as club treasurer of a 200 man club for at least a few years, or own a flying site that has 200 different cars always coming and going through the gate before criticizing those clubs who draw the line at a fixed number of members.

Im sure theyre using 2.4 so the 3 mile radius rule probably doesnt matter?

i'M NOT PROMOTING CLOSED MEMBERSHIPS BUT, DID YOU EVER THINK THAT THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT A CAP ON THE MEMBERSHIP? I'M SURE PRIVATE ROAD MAINTENANCE AND SIMILAR SITUATIONS ARE GOOD REASONS IN THE OWNER'S EYES FOR DOING THIS. I DON'T THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THAT ANY CLUB WOULD DELIBERATELY HAVE A CAP CLAUSE TO RESTRICT MEMBERSHIP TO A PRIVILEDGED FEW. mODEL AVIATION IS REALLY GETTING COMPLICATED, WHEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT PLANE TO BRING TO THE FIELD. I DON'T WANT TI BRING THAT ONE CAUSE YOU KNOW WHO WILL START GRIPING OR IF I BRING THIS ONE I'LL BE LAUGHED RIGHT OFF THE FIELD CAUSE ITS GOT ONE OF THOSE FUNNY LITTLE "ELECTRIC" MOTORS INIT. TO ALL THIS I SAY GEE, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FUN OF JUST FLYING YOUR PLANE AND ENJOYING EACH OTHER'S COMPANY AND SHARING OUR COMMON INTEREST?......HAVING FUN!!!!! ENOUGH SAID. NAVEE8TOR

Kramer- I should have stated that I realize not all clubs are like the one I mentioned.....the problem is...it is the closest one to where I live. However, in four clubs I have had contact with there has been an "air" no pun intended at (3) of them. But I'll keep looking.

Bob & navee8or- I under stand that some clubs can only hold so many pilots and I surely do not want the AMA or any governing body telling us what to do outside of basic safety. And yes navee8or I guess what I am trying to say is what you concluded with and that is I just want to have fun.

Scar- I didn't want anyone to train them, I am willing to do that! I bought a trainer and equiped it just to get some new guys that are friends of mine interested. I realize clubs and fields are not required to recruit. However, if there is not enough interest in a hobby then manufacturing finds other things to make. Look at Slot Car and Control Line......We owe it to ourselves to recruit!

Kidepoxy- The nail was struck on the head. I have been promoting 2.4 with the guys I currently am teaching for that very reason.

Gsoav8r- All I have is 2.4 so if I can find a flyable "rogue" field I'll fly to my hearts content, glitches and all....!!!!

SOOO with that said what is the solution to flying fields where I don't have to spend an entire day getting there and back? Just a suggestion but why can't some of these big clubs who must close their membership dulicate themselves at another suitable site (outside 3miles). It is pretty difficult for one guy to establish a field take twenty five guys and the work is do-able. None of us have the time by ourselves to do it all but a splinter group could.

As far as the fields with stuck up people (some of which I am sure will respond to this post) I guess in the long run I really don't want attitude police at my flying site. I was just concerned that (3) new potential RC Flyers that I know where discouraged from the hobby. I guess that is why RC TRUCKS have taken off.................................

Don't condemn the entire sport because you had two clubs that didn't live up to your expectations. They have reasons for being the way they are. Meetings once a year? Not that uncommon since most members would rather fly than waste time in meetings.

Our club (in Frederick, Md by the way) addressed this problem by creating a "provisional" membership. Once we recieve a persons application, dues, and verify AMA status, we allow them to use club facilities. We have two fields, one in Frederick and one in Emmitsburg, both privately owned and leased by the club. To operate and maintain those facilities costs us about $2700/year. Dues are the primary means of covering club expenses. We'll let someone come out and check out our field, and if they're AMA members they're allowed to fly as a guest under the supervision of a current club member. After about 3 visits though, we believe they're just taking advantage of our goodwill, and require them to join.

As for the provisional membership, the only thing they're not allowed to do is vote on club matters until they are voted into full membership. And thats usually the first order of business at our meetings, which we hold a few times during the year, and never during flying season.

I try to get every club member to make sure nobody has a bad experience at our field when visiting. Introducing yourself, giving them a phone number or email address for the club trainers if necessary, and spending a few minutes chatting go a long way.

I make it a point to find local flying clubs whenever I travel around the country. I have met many very nice people, some of whom have even given me the opportunity to fly their planes. I've seen clubs on private land and public land. I've never been ignored, but many times I had to make the first contact. And I've always been asked to come back and bring a plane next time.

Brad

bkdavy- I like your club and your outlook towards new people already, and sure wish I lived in Frederick (used to 85 to 87)....but in the fine print you even stated, "but many times I had to make the first contact." See, that is what I am talking about! And, I am not comdemning the entire sport because I know that there are alot of great guys out there! But, I'll repeat my quote from my last reply, "in four clubs I have had contact with there has been an "air" no pun intended at (3) of them." Three out of four and as you stated "many" needs to improve. I salute your attitude and outlook towards the promotion to the hobby but I'm not going to defend the exclusive "snoots" out there. And all of this still doesn't address the need for additional uncrouded places to fly.

Try being a woman and going to an AMA sanctioned field. Don't get me started on this. I had a thread closed on WattFlyer because the MEN didn't like it. I know there are AMA fileds that like women but not in the conservative midwest - IT'S A MAN'S SPORT!


I haven't seen the alcohol at a field yet. I thought the AMA disallowed this at their fields. You should report this to the AMA.


Because of the treatment I have received and the lackadaisical attitude of the AMA toward serious safety problems (the DX7 failures) I have quit the AMA and fly strictly Park or non-sanctioned fields. The AMA insurance is a joke as well; if you have homeowners insurance your covered. This happend to a friend of mine when the plane locked up and went into the parking lot straight into the roof af an SUV. The AMA did nothing!


I keep being told that women are welcomed at AMA fields but my personal experinece tells me otherwise.

I thought this was a thread about the FAA!

I feel for the OP.

He & his are not exposed to the total count of clubs that make the bad apples become just a percentage. He is exposed to a few bad apples being the only apples in his area.

Folks shouldnt have to go to the nearest I mean second nearest...
ok, al the way to 3rd nearest..... ok, eventually past 3 clubs to fing one that is welcoming.


As for overcrowded clubs,
they should start a satalite 3d/PF/Heli field outside the 3mile,
because those types of flying can be done at a pretty small field.
Those flyers get a seperate site, and the main site gets them out of line to fly there

That sort of sounds like you're advocating a club set up a "2 tier" organization, KE.

Tiers? what tiers?
Club members can fly at club fields.
There is a small field for small area flight, like a 50%Yak hovering around or a eSlowFlyer,
and the larger field for large area flight,
like CombatPigs 90mph 10oz missiles or UberTelematsers or 91fs Mustangs.

All just members of the club with 2 fields, a slow field & a fast field by acreage

Like I said. Tiers.

I'm surprised at you.

Since you insist on dragging this out,
there would be no tiers if there is no differentiation: If you dont differentiate one group from another, there are no tiers. All club members can use all club fields in a safe manner. The 50% yak can fly all over the place at the large field, or fly within the size of a small field... aka Hover/3D. If heli guys want to buzz around the large pattern there is a large field or if they want to work on trims there is a small field.

Why you continue to try to institute a Tier concept where I observe there doesnt need to be one
is beyond me.
One club with 2 fields for the club members. No tiers, just dont fly unsafe for the size of the field you are at

I know a few women who wouldn't be welcome anywhere, regardless of the activity. Sometimes the real problem isn't what we would "like it" to be.

I'm not dragging anything out. Just pointing out to the guy who decries multi-tier systems that when he suggests that the club establish two fields, one for 3D, PF's and helis so that "the main site gets them out of line to fly there" that you have indeed establishe a second tier.

Feel free to have the last word.

That ain't likely!

bill, AMA 4720

I dont see KE's idea as a member tiered system. His idea might be thought of as a flight mode system. For example, one field I fly at has a nice paved runway and three control line circles. The control line guys dont try to fly control line off the runway and the RC guys dont fly off the circles.
The cost to be a member is the same for everyone and all have the same member privileges.

Cheers.

It is not Rocket Surgery:
Tier A: Everyone in the club
Tiers B-Z dont exist.

Anyone that happens to be flying at Site2 obviously wont be congesting up Site1.
Since he gave me the last word, we can put this to rest

I think all activity should be right out there on center stage, I'd rather be given the chance to duck..

Our club welcomes anyone that wants to fly. Don't know how we'll teach you. Male/female young and old all AMA members or future members are welcome. If it falls under AMA guidelines and can fly it’s welcome at our field. Our members fly a broad range of things from small park flyers, 40% 3d planes to turbine helicopters and everything in-between. However if you're the type of person that every crash is someone else’s fault or are extremely negative all the time. I doubt many members will want to hang around you. We also have female members