Muroc1

Bob,

This forum touches 231 members (that we know of). [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7939138/tm.htm[/link]

I'm not sure that would tell us much if we started a poll. If we refer back to the most recent poll of any significance, the poll numbers did not agree to the actual results. I'm afraid there is no way to know unless the folks at AMA put out a survey to see what the 10% () want.

Frank

KidEpoxy

Bob
Stick's position is not asking for some new expenditure to be passed by the EC,
but to simply not get something sent to him.

What cost to AMA is there to do as stick asked, to simply not mail him the mag?
I used to program a PICK MV db with mailing lists & form letters, and we ran all addresses thru a parser & mask to kick invalid formats so we wouldnt pay postage on bad addresses. Perhaps AMA could use this 1980's technology as well

Stick is not asking for what I push (Dues Reduction OptOut),
he is saying to not reduce his dues: AMA will have no loss of income from Stick and at the very least HQ will save the postage if they just throw it out themselves at the printer.


wow, not the Fed Required idea again.
Ask how the rocketry 501 doesnt snailmail is mag to all members.
Or how some guys get the PPP mag that misses out on 50-80% of the HQ info in MA. I havent seen ANY cfo report financial pages in the PPP mag. Nor any DVP pages, even though we are talking 1 page per district, it just dont have the PPP members DVPs getting info to them.

Somehow, Muncie has the technology to know whether to send a PPP mag or a MA to the PPP members (remember how they have alacarte $10PPP/$36MA). Muncie has the technology to know if a Family tier paid extra to get MA or not. They have the technology to know if a yute gets MA or not.
But are we to believe they cant control whether an Open/Senior/Life gets MA or not?

Bob Mitchell

Not an idea, rather a question.

Do YOU know what is/is not required? I don't, but I've seen it postulated here more than once that there are indeed member communication requirements that must be met by organizations such as AMA which are regulated as NFP's. I also haven't seen anyone with any real stroke come in here and authoritatively say "no, that's an urban legend". Without real FACTS on what AMA is required to do from a member communications standpoint then one can't just say "stop sending it to me". Unless, of course, one just likes over simplifications and a lack of factual information.

If in fact the AMA has no regulatory communications requirements with it's members, then yeah......just stop sending Stick his copy. No big deal. However, if they do, and I suspect that is the case, then you have a whole 'nother situation. Unless, of course, you don't really care whether AMA is or is not meeting regulatory requirements. You do care, don't you?

Now, if such requirements DO exist, then the situation gets much more complicated. Much depends on just what percentage are like Stick and don't want the magazine.

That's why it's really up to those that are complaining about it to get some FACTS about what is and isn't required. About what options may be used to meet any requirements that exist, and the cost benefit of such options. It doesn't even need to be a full blown analysis, but just enough to show that there is some potential. Lacking such information, all I see are empty complaints. Make your case. If it makes sense you will probably get some converts.....maybe enough to make something happen. If you can't then you won't, and you're just left with ongoing, repetitive, never ending complaints.

Bob Mitchell

I'm aware that there is a poll currently running in that other message board. My guess is that if one was started here, the results would be different, and that the difference would be a reflection of the general attitudes towards AMA between here and that other place. I also suspect that neither would really reflect the true feelings of the majority of the membership. Both are probably to small a subset to be meaningful.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

red's poll on RCG about the mag is running 20% in favor of no mag/no reduction in dues.

one of the other 501c that i am involved with sends it's required stuff to members once a year and gets it all on 1 page.
one doesn't send out anything at all and hasn't in the 10 or so years since we formed it.

Bob Mitchell

Mongo, I think you may have mis-read the numbers. There is but one vote (~2%) who would opt-out without a corresponding dues reduction. Another ~18%, (6 votes) to opt out WITH a dues reduction. The other 80% want the mag. Again, it's a small number of individuals voting.

Kemosobie

Out 34 votes so far: 27 want MA , 6 would opt out only if a dues reduction , 1 opt out no conditions.

Stickbuilder

The advertised price of the magazine is $4.95 per issue, if you do the math, that works out to: $59.40 per year (not including postage). They, in effect would be getting an extra dues payment (plus a tad) from me each year. I'd gladly continue to pay the full price per year, and not have to take the walk of shame every month. That, plus it would probably do wonders for my blood pressure. I'm in favor of the AMA including a check mark on the notification for those who still want to pay the full amount, but not receive the AMA manifesto. I mean, RC Report has bitten the dust along with all the little gnat airplanes that Gordon had fallen so deeply in love with in the past couple of years (gee I wonder if that might have had any bearing on the magazines demise?). It could be that the higher powers don't like the little park flyers either..........

Bill, AMA 4720
Bottom Feeder Brother #1

Kemosobie

You could have your copy sent to the Solid Waste Dept , Leesburg Fl and save yourself the walk.

Stickbuilder

Nope, I'd be afraid that it would fall into the hands of some impressionable person who would be digging through the dump, and be ruined for life.

Bill, AMA 4720
Bottom Feeder Brother #1

Muroc1

Bob,

I wasn't talking about the poll on RCG I was referring about the latest election poll and how the forum members here did not mirror the wishes of the general AMA population.

Frank

wildbill-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Hey Guys, maybe Greg Hawn will start a column for us Bottom Feeders!

Bill

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

This, again, is the issue at hand.

There's a bunch of talk going on about polls, surveys, 501 requirements, blah blah blah.

These things miss the issue entirely:

What the AMA does with MA magazine is simply NOT RIGHT.

Let's be honest here...every one of us receives spam in our inbox on a daily basis, I'd wager. Are there any among us who do not dislike the practice of spamming? Does it matter if the spam is advertising a product you might actually want?

Unsolicited email is just that..unsolicited. It is unreasonable and unethical to abuse the resources of all involved to send it.

Ah...but we have an "existing relationship" with the AMA, and have, by requesting membership, tacitly (if not expressly) allowed this information to be sent to us.

Fine. Shall I then presume, simply because you do business with $INTERNET_VENDOR, that it is reasonable of them to send you their newsletter, specials, advertisements, and other communication, simply because you've done business with them? While "legal", it's no more sensible or ethical. How less annoying is the UNREQUESTED email simply because they have a "right" to send it?

There's a REASON a majority of companies, when you register to do business with them, have the option to REFUSE such things...because they know it's simply NOT RIGHT to bombard someone with information they DO NOT WANT...EVEN if they have a "right" to do so.

Consider the telemarketer...is his call any less annoying because you have a 'pre-existing relationship" with his company? Sure, he has the right to call you, by law. Do you not desire, however, when you ask not to be called again regarding his company's products or services, that he actually HONOR that request?

Example after example exists. At its core, the issue is a very simple one...and remains unanswered:

Why must I, or any member, be responsible for the disposition of an item I do not want, did not ask for, and have, multiple times, expressed a desire not to receive?

I (and Bill, and others) am not asking for any difference in dues. I'm asking for no consideration in kind, no discount, nothing of the sort.

I ask only to have the option to NOT BE SENT that which I DO NOT WANT.

Stickbuilder

That's two now, Just think, the AMA could now be saving $118.80 per year.

Bill, AMA 4720
Bottom Feeder Brother #1

KidEpoxy

I have seen folks tell Stick to have Muncie mail his MA dorectly to a school/whatnot.
They can do that?
Mail the magazine to some other address while mailing his ballots & renewals to him?


If so,
Stick, just tell Muncie to mail all your MA's directly to the folks at
5161 E. Memorial Dr.
Muncie IN 47302

They can put them to good use

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

heheheh kid, thats funny

The Toolman

I think ya'll are missing the bigger point here. If the ama's advertisers see that a lot of the members do not want the mag anymore, they (the advertisers) may not be willing to spend their adv. bucks with ama. The mag is nothing but a bunch of ads anymore anyway.

I just threw mine in the stack of unlooked at junk mail this month, to be carted off the 2nd thursday of each month to the recycling truck that comes town.


Ron

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

That's a valid point...it's the ONE reason that explains why the AMA would insist on sending each member one copy of the mag monthly....so they can claim "X Audience" for advertisers.

Of course, what that tells us...if true...is that we're dealing with an organization that knowingly misrepresents the size of their active audience, based on their ability to cram unwanted material down the throats of members.

Eh...doesn't really change the picture much, now does it?

Kemosobie

There is nothing forced. You freely join AMA you know what you are getting. Don't want the magazine,don't join AMA.

Bob Mitchell

The newstand prices of most magazines dwarf the sibscription costs. FlyRC goes for over $6 at the newstand. My subscription cost is $2 and change. Car&Driver goes for over $4 a copy. My subscription is $13.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

"What the AMA does with MA magazine is simply NOT RIGHT. " said gboulton ..... I have another opinion on this matter....

It was determined by a poll taken by the editor (I believe) a couple of years ago (or was that AMA???)...anywho the results were as clear as glass - by far the majority of AMA members are R/C (something in the 80-90% range) yet what % of the mag is directed to the R/C pilot - especially the SPORT R/C Pilot?

'nuff said.....(I still like reading the mag )

abel_pranger

Right, and BTW don't fly either, as in many locales there is no place but the exclusive AMA club site to do it. Nothing forced? Get real; where would AMA be if not for the clubs drafting members for them?

"Gimme your wallet or I'll blow your head off." Nothing forced - the thug gave you two options, right? It's your free choice.

That line getting pretty stale there, Tonto.

Abel

Kemosobie

No matter how you look at it it is a choice you freely make. You are not forced

KidEpoxy

Kemo
Just like the TailTouch situation:
everyone that didnt like the No TailTouch rule was supposed to just leave AMA.
But thats not what they did,
Instead, some folks that wanted AMA to change something.... got AMA HQ to change it.

Now, how does this apply to Stick's situation of being a guy that wants AMA to change something?
Well, it applies directly in that we can just have AMA HQ change it.

So Kemo,
was the way Muncie handled the changing the TailTouch rule right?
Or was Muncie wrong to listen to folks asking for them to change a policy?


. . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . .


What impact would Stick not getting his MA have on the rest of the membership?
Well, if neither Stick nor Muncie tells anyone that Stick no longer gets MA,
how would the rest of us even know he doesnt?
Stick might have got his MA turned off 3 months ago and is just yanking our chain now.
How would we know.... how does him not getting a mag bother somebody in a different state that dont even know if he actually is getting one or not?

Cause I dont recall anyone getting flustered when guys come here to post they didnt get their MA for some month. Somehow it is ok for a member to not get MA if the post office loses it, but it is horrible if muncie simply didnt mail one.

Stickbuilder

I still get the rag, lemme see, the Feburary issue had a rehash of a kind of old looking sport plane that had morphed into a bipe on the cover, and the March issue has some kind of Circus Stunt model (3-D) on the cover, and some blurbs about building foam models.

Again, if the AMA has the PeePee program for the little (under 2 pound) slow (under 60 MPH) models, and they receive their own special magazine, why in Hell is the AMA still putting that crap in MA? Is this all that they know about and understand in Muncie? Is the Advisory Committee (read that Horizon and Hobbico) running the show now? Are the luntatics in charge of the Asylum? What in Hell is going on?

Bill, AMA 4720
Bottom Feeder Brother #1