shaggy48

This is my second year being an AMA member since getting back into the hobby. And since I started getting the magazine, it quickly became apparent to me how useless the AMA magazine has become. Am I the only one who feels it is just one big advertisement? I try to read it but find it is much like watching TV just for the commercials? I don't know anyone who likes watching just the commercials. Every month after reading the magazine I come away disappointed. RC Airplanes is not my only hobby, and the other magazines that I get as a membership benefit, I feel do a great job of balancing useful informational articles along with advertisements. So the ads don't bother me. AMA magazine however seems to be devoid of the "benefit" the magazine is supposed to provide. I feel the criteria for a good magazine is to publish information that one would be willing to pay for, for free as benefit to membership.

In other words, if you were not an AMA member, would you buy the magazine? Currently my answer is a resounding NO! Would you buy AMA magazine if you didn't get it as benefit of your AMA membership?

Hossfly

Model Aviation is a unique product. As a magazine it is a service of a non-profit organization and should, IMO, be for the benefit of the membership. Unfortunately, IMO, the magazine has become a vehicle to promote only those that produce the magazine. To me, the magazine relates to an old saying, author unknown at the moment, but I like it: "Economics is a thing developed strictly to provide employment for Economists." IMO, so true.

The advertisements in MA pay only for themselves. The magazine informational material is paid for by the membership, resulting as the number one expense - except employees - of the AMA itself. The Auditor's annual reports evidence the previous sentence.

Reference your question, since I belong to the organization that supports the magazine, I and all the other members pay for the magazine now. Would I subscribe to the current format? Yes, I probably would, although I could do without the advertising. I am a long time - some 60+ - years member of AMA and I like to keep in touch with AMA.

Now, you sir, say your are recently back, (2010 to RCU) but no information as to how long you really have with the "hobby". You do not reveal that you supposedly have 10 years in RC. What do you now fly? You appear to be a big-bird IMAC person with your previous 96 posts on RCU starting in Jan. 2010.

Actually, I am not really certain that I would give you credit for being able to judge MA with the current information you have revealed about your own opinion of the magazine. Now I ask if you just may be a person interested in the take-over of that magazine from its current status of being an IRC 501 (c) (3) Unrelated Business entity? And/or, are you checking things out to see if the time is ripe for such a take-over by some that may be interested in such a move?

vpresley

My Feedback: (162)

Jeez this question again !!!! This is getting old. Its not for individuals, its for the AMA member as a whole, it covers the spectrum of the hobby for all, not just a few. Hoss I dont even bother reading anything you say anymore, its pure rhetoric and mostly predictable, and just a rehash of the same old stuff again and again, give us all a rest from your always the same diatribes, it just gets old. Again the magazine is for all, not the few. I like the magazine for what it is, a cross section of the hobby. This is the AMA magazine, as such it covers a lot of smaller groups that the big magazines do not. You will not find the big magazines covering the whole spectrum of AMA stuff because its not in their interest of making a buck. The AMA magazine does. Its for AMA members, not the commercial public. I feel it does a good job for what its intended to do.


Vince AMA 7051

Jim Thomerson

To my mind, Flying Models gives a better cross section of model aviation than Model Aviation does. I don't even find their coverage of ARF's to be offensive, as their reviews are often informative for someone who has no personal desire for an ARF. Now that the contest listings are to be removed, I really don't need Model Aviation.

greengoose

I would not buy MA magazine ever and furthermore AMA needs to pro rate memberships, In this country it is customary that everything be pro rated, It's only fair and would help AMA recover quicker from their financial slump but from the gitgo not fair to suscribers if someone recovers late from the Christmas holiday festivity's, I mean come on almost everybody's pocketbook ends up bombarded 2 to 3 months after that. if AMA would pro rate then it would be the best for them and us otherwise electric park flyers are looking better and better every day, Common AMA how about it. Don't get me wrong I think the world of AMA, I have been flying since the 80's and if it weren't for them I or we could have already been grounded for various reasons.....

shaggy48

I now realize from the responses thus far, that it may be difficult for some people to separate their feelings about AMA from the question about MA Magazine. And if I've hit some kind of sore spot about AMA, I'm sorry. But this is simply a question about the content of MA magazine. Didn't mean to open up a discussion of the pro's and cons of AMA membership. Just curious what others think about the value the magazine provides as a benefit of membership. Doesn't matter what you fly or even if you fly, how long you've been doing it or whatever your particular area of the hobby happens to be. And no I don't care to explain any of that about myself as none of it is relevant. If the question is offensive to some people, I apologize. Don't know why it should be but, I guess some people obviously have some kind of problem with AMA in general. Frankly I don't. I just find the magazine lacking and wonder what others think of it. After all its not like people are going out and buying it. It just comes if you belong to AMA. So they, the producers of the magazine have a "captive audience" if you will. Maybe that's why its full of mostly useless ads and provides so little useful information about Model Aviation. After all its not like people wont buy it if they don't. That is the basis for my question.

Maybe I simply need to find another resource. RCU is a great online source for asking questions and getting quick answers, But there has got to be a better magazine for RC Airplanes than MA. I will take Jims advice and pick up a copy of Flying Models if I can find one. Any other RC Airplane magazines out there that others feel are worthy of trying out?

vpresley

My Feedback: (162)

Again the point is missed. MA is for the whole of the AMA, not any particular segment. So the statements, I dont like this or I dont like that miss the point completely. Its not for anyone segment, it covers all the segments of the hobby. So it will never be liked by all. Its the nature of the beast. It is a broad spectrum informational publication, meant for all, not just a few.


Vince

warningshot

Vince
I think you are the one missing the point. The question is Would you buy MA if you WERE NOT a member of AMA? Yes or No

vpresley

My Feedback: (162)

No I dont think so. Its like comparing apples and oranges if you are comparing it to a commercial publication. MA is like a news letter for an organization, not a magazine. That is my point. Yes I would buy it.

Vince

Muroc1

I wouldn't buy it.


I don't need two of them each month.



Frank

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

LOL. Great answer, wish I had thought of it first!

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

You could give one to the library or put one in a doctor's office. Iwent to the dentist yesterday and read a magazine announcing that Cheverolet was re-introducing the Camaro. Geez.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Back when I first got into the hobby and before owning a computer, Model Aviation was my main source of information....especially when it came to learning about competition categories and their suppliers and other contacts.
The magazine had more feature articles about scratch built planes, sometimes with pull out plans. So, I looked forward to getting the mag greatly.

Fast forward to nowadays and the magazine has lost some [most] of it's usefullness for me. I'd still buy 1 or 2 issues a year after flipping through it to see if any "keeper" articles are in it.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Due to the above... Just wondering are you an AMA member?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Yep, I'm 212125 since the mid 1980s.

I was speaking in my last post as if I wasn't getting the magazine any more.

No matter how hard they try to come up with fresh material, it's bound to get old with guys who have been getting the magazine for some time.
The magazine can only be as interesting as what the bulk of the mainstream is doing nowadays, which is flying RTFs and ARFs.

The internet has completely replaced my use for the mag..... well, you can use the pages of the mag to mix up small batches of epoxy.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Thanks...after re-reading it it became clear what you meant.

AERORICH73

Basicly the magazine has become nothing more than a manufactures catalog. I am not interested in chucking my radios, and equipment which still works well for me just to keep up with the new products advertised. Yes, there are some articles, but I am not interested in foam models nor large gasoline powered target drones. In reading passed issues of RCM, etc, I return for a moment when models were skillfully built. I really appreciate those who build scale model from plans, or scratch efforts. I am not interested in joining the league of Jet model Pilots as the investment would only bring fear of loosing thousands of dollars when crashing. Even back up systems fail. I really miss RC Report publication although I am able to download the issue from the website as a member.

In the latest issue of MA, the discussion about the number of other attractions in the market place is really putting a strain on gaining new AMA members. It could well be a sign of the AMA following the RCM publication in a few years.

aerorich73
A & P Mechanic
Horizon Air-retired

Muroc1

Another supporter for the online contest calendar.

Frank

Muroc1

Thanks!

Frank

Muroc1

Agreed. All of mine that do not have any WAA-08 articles in them are given away.

Frank

Ben Lanterman

Model Aviation may not be perfect, rarely in life is anything perfect. But I consider the price of AMA membership plus the magazine to be a reasonable bargain. Heck I just spent more than that on one lipoly battery.

I'll admit I am biased - I have written several articles for the magazine covering contests and events and some reviews. I write them in an effort to try to make the magazine better. The very small author's pay does help offset my need to buy more modeling goodies, all the time, but on an hourly basis it turns out to be about 10 cents an hour - maybe less. No one would write anything for a modeling magazine to get rich, it is basically for the fun (and glory:-) of it.

The bottom line though is - if you don't care for the magazine try to contribute something to it to make it better. I personally read it from cover to cover and, although I don't fly control line and free flight, I usually learn something in the process. I have been a modeler since 1950 and a member of the AMA since around 1965 or thereabouts. I can't remember the exact time I joined the AMA. I have seen the magazine change and other magazines come and go in that time. Model Aviation is worth the effort to make it a great tool for exchanging information and entertainment.

Good flying,

Ben Lanterman

Hossfly

Yep, Ben, maybe just MORE and LONGER life! How the devil are you these days, Ben. Hey, it's been a while since you and I locked horns on a good argument. No time like the present to renew old times!

Aw, Come on Ben, shucks man, you left out the best part. Your nephew, Mark Lanterman, is the owner of Airborne Media, AMA's contract representative for Model Aviation advertising. It is only natural that you would want MA to be the number UNO magazine.

Maybe you could answer a question or two, maybe more. Since MA has shrunk considerably in pages over the past several years, examples: June 2007 200+ Pages, Feb. 2009, 186 pages, and now about 160 pages, yet MA has the largest circulation of any US aeromodeling magazine, along with the lowest advertising rates, something advertising folks really like, do you consider that decrease in pages to be a result of quality of magazine, or just a lack of good material for the magazine, or something else?

Actually, I have contributed something in the way of operational management for the magazine, however it has been constantly ignored. That is to have the MA magazine advertising rates in proportion to the distribution of the product reference to the other magazines. If MA distributes more, then the advertising should cost more.

Along with that item ref. advertising, I have suggested and still suggest that the complete MA Staff be totally independent of the rest of the AMA Staff, except the ED and the Tech. Director, and that said magazine would produce a magazine as directed by the AMA EC, yet produce a net profit each year. That is to operate as a true IRC 501 (c) (3) Unrelated Business as it is supposed to do and so be.

IMO such an operation would bring profit to AMA and just maybe some pride in the production. As things stand now, the magazine is financed through member dues and advertising only pays for itself. The magazine is AMA's second largest expense, second only to staff salaries and benefits. HECK, MAN, the government can do that well! [sm=47_47.gif]

Thanks, Ben, for setting the stage for this Act in the Play. [sm=49_49.gif]

Ben Lanterman

Aw, Come on Ben, shucks man, you left out the best part. Your nephew, Mark Lanterman, is the owner of Airborne Media, AMA's contract representative for Model Aviation advertising. It is only natural that you would want MA to be the number UNO magazine.

Maybe you could answer a question or two, maybe more. Since MA has shrunk considerably in pages over the past several years, examples: June 2007 200+ Pages, Feb. 2009, 186 pages, and now about 160 pages, yet MA has the largest circulation of any US aeromodeling magazine, along with the lowest advertising rates, something advertising folks really like, do you consider that decrease in pages to be a result of quality of magazine, or just a lack of good material for the magazine, or something else?

Actually, I have contributed something in the way of operational management for the magazine, however it has been constantly ignored. That is to have the MA magazine advertising rates in proportion to the distribution of the product reference to the other magazines. If MA distributes more, then the advertising should cost more.

Along with that item ref. advertising, I have suggested and still suggest that the complete MA Staff be totally independent of the rest of the AMA Staff, except the ED and the Tech. Director, and that said magazine would produce a magazine as directed by the AMA EC, yet produce a net profit each year. That is to operate as a true IRC 501 (c) (3) Unrelated Business as it is supposed to do and so be.

IMO such an operation would bring profit to AMA and just maybe some pride in the production. As things stand now, the magazine is financed through member dues and advertising only pays for itself. The magazine is AMA's second largest expense, second only to staff salaries and benefits. HECK, MAN, the government can do that well! [sm=47_47.gif]

Thanks, Ben, for setting the stage for this Act in the Play. [sm=49_49.gif]

[/quote]

Setting the stage - is there a stage to be set? You are right about Mark, he is the best part of the magazine and I am very proud of his accomplishments. I assume you have met him? He is a pretty nice young man and a heck of a modeler. He has always beat me in the contests that we flew in together, but has always been there to try to coach me through the maneuvers (at least he can hold me up if my nervous knees give out - being a 6ft 5in monster helps). We are going to the Mint Julep scale contest in a week or so and plan on flying and having a great time in the hobby. He contributes to the hobby that he loves just as I try to do. I am jealous of him because I wish I could have made a living in the hobby instead of working for a living. My brother worked at World Engines for years so interest in the hobby has been in the blood for years.

I would be a pretty pathetic uncle and even worse member of the AMA if I didn't want the magazine to be number UNO. Agreed?

Shrinking of the magazine is an easy topic I think - there is a just general lack of interest in model airplanes. In the good old days of Lindberg, etc., (you lived then right?) hundreds of folks would come out to watch a few control line models go around and around, or perhaps a few rudder only RC airplanes try to get off the ground. That just doesn't happen today and won't ever again. Kids are too busy texting, playing computer games, riding motor cycles, skateboards and so on. Look at the photos of most contests today - with a few exceptions like RC competition helicopters, the guys are getting older and grayer. I would guess, without knowing for certain, that the AMA membership is getting older and older.

The content of the magazine is evolving just as the hobby is evolving. I personally think the MA content is good and enjoy reading it just as much as the other magazines I read, it just needs more of my work ( I say this in all humility - my photography speaks for itself ). But my body is getting older and it is more difficult to get to places where model airplanes can be photographed. I take a couple of English (as in British) magazines and the rest of the usual US magazines and enjoy them all. They all have a different "flavor" but are fun to read.

What in the world makes you think I have any clue how to operate a magazine, or anything about things such as a true IRC, or anything like that? I am totally ignorant about the subject.

Just thinking over what you said - if you have been suggesting things to the powers that be to improve the magazine, and if you have been ignored for years, it would seem that you could draw some conclusions from that. Either somebody doesn't think what you are suggesting is worth implementing, or they don't like you much and that is influencing their judgement. Either way you are barking up a tree and getting nowhere.

You should go flying instead,

Ben

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I happen to like MA ...but I would prefer AMA to promote the hobby first and foremost...Yep, that means a more fair playing ground for other model magazines...wanting AMA first at the expense of all else is a very disturbing thought...unfortunately the “AMA first” position seems a likely sentiment from the many staunch supporters I have heard from on these forums... sad but at the same time interesting, the “AMA first” sentiment will be the very key to the ultimate demise of AMA...


If you can find some comfortable rationalization for an acceptance of dismissing good ideas based on who proposes them, then you would be part of the problem...sorry, but that is just the way it is.

Ben Lanterman

"I happen to like MA ...but I would prefer AMA to promote the hobby first and foremost...Yep, that means a more fair playing ground for other model magazines...wanting AMA first at the expense of all else is a very disturbing thought...unfortunately the “AMA first” position seems a likely sentiment from the many staunch supporters I have heard from on these forums... sad but at the same time interesting, the “AMA first” sentiment will be the very key to the ultimate demise of AMA..."


I personally have no idea who pays what, when, to whom and for how much, for anything concerning magazines and advertisers. To be truthful the amount of work it would require to know exactly those numbers is more than I am willing to do. I certainly would hesitate to call myself a "staunch supporter" of the AMA at the expense of all else. I do try to support MA. I simply don't know that much about the AMA. We do need an organization, whether or not it is the AMA - and there will always be someone that doesn't like the way things are being ran - and who has better ideas that are being ignored. That is the way of life. It happens in all organizations up to and including our Federal Government.

Personally I have just a very few years left to live (67 with congestive heart failure) and refuse to use that time on things that are of this small amount of interest.

Of course all of that has nothing to do of whether or not MA is worth getting which was the original topic and to which I responded. I indicated that I tried to give them content when I could to make the magazine as good as I personally could. I can't fly at the local Boeing flying field without AMA membership so I consider the dues I pay the AMA more than reasonable and the magazine is fine.

"If you can find some comfortable rationalization for an acceptance of dismissing good ideas based on who proposes them, then you would be part of the problem...sorry, but that is just the way it is."

I didn't say that I thought it was a proper way to treat someone, did I? Look at what I wrote one more time ....

"Just thinking over what you said - if you have been suggesting things to the powers that be to improve the magazine, and if you have been ignored for years, it would seem that you could draw some conclusions from that. Either somebody doesn't think what you are suggesting is worth implementing, or they don't like you much and that is influencing their judgement. Either way you are barking up a tree and getting nowhere."

Don't you think that this is what has been happening? Hoss suggests something and it is rejected. Why? In 30 years in the aero industry I have seen this happen over and over. Never dismiss the importance of personality when it comes to selling an idea. Did you not watch any of the last presidential election?

What I wrote doesn't suggest a comfortable rationalization, it is a statement of what is happening. Do you have another reason why his ideas are rejected? If he wants his ideas accepted then he must determine the "whys" of his rejections and work around them. They are definitely stumbling blocks in the way of what might be fine ideas.

Ben