deleted
 

This is the edited message thread.

Don't vote, for it as silly a question as is the expectation for you to answer.</p>

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I think your poll will come out like the SKS rifles in California.

People say, "They will take my rifle when they pry it from my cold dead hands". But 10,000 of them got turned in when the ban came.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I dont have a jet but a few of my planes are 100+ MPH. If the limit is lowered to under 100 I will simply just stop flying them at a AMA field and go renegade and take my chances.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

you don't really expect honest answers here, do ya?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Did you vote?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Yes. I will go by the new rules and in the meantime I'll keep fighting it through the right channels.


Pete

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

We had an opportunity two weeks ago to speak with a person who works closely with the FAA in the SUAS area. One of the points that he brought up is that even if the FAA lowers the ceiling, we will probably be able to file a long term NOTAM that would notify pilots flying in the vicinity of our field, and would probably be able to include model flights in excess of the ceiling limit. Bottom line is we'll HAVE to follow the rules, or risk negating our insurance. But there will probably be ways for us to continue flying the way we're flying now within those rules. Note that he in NO WAY discussed or disclosed ANYTHING in the proposed rule. He also let us know that there are SEVERAL people working on the regulation that ARE model aircraft pilots, and are members of some of the local AMA chartered clubs.

I also offered to him that our club would be willing to set up a demonstration for any of those people that are not pilots, to give them a chance to see exactly what we do and how we do it. I'm hoping we hear from them as the weather improves.

Brad

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

A great point not often made. I just hope the "we" is inclusive of all model aviators...not just the CBO branded.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Pardon me, perhaps my question should have included the words...."will you continue flying <u>in spite of </u>any changes affecting AMA and AMAmembers?"

Some years ago, a local airline pilotsternly suggested that operators of model rocketry were required topossesa permit in order to fire their respective rockets. As you can imagine, several questions were asked of the pilot including origin of his statement, rules of engagement, ceiling, time of day, and a number of other questions. His responses mimicked to the "enth" degree a lotof the responses postedin the AMA forums - unsubstaniated claims made by whoever can boast the loudest andmake the most noise.

With the fear ofrocketing passion being limited or regulated to near extinction, a call was tothe AMA office to ask forclarification of the airlinepilot's wayward suggestions.The answers provided came from, thenAMA event coordinator, Greg Hahn, who, among other things said, "when your rocket exceeds an altitude of 5,000' you'll need to apply for a permit.

Do you suppose supposition is supposedly the accepted truth?

Or do you suppose one should apply fact to a supposed supposition supplying fiction?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I'm a little confused about the poll. Does "yes" mean I will continue to fly with the new rules or does "no" mean I will continue to fly with the new rules?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Cottco

the phrase you should have included is
... in the unlikely event that AMA is not exempted from model regulations, ....

cause its a big pile of unknowns as to AMA even being held to any gubberment regs at all at this point



I get the feeling you want to know
if the guys that proudly claim they dont care about the regulations cause those regs are un-enforceable,
if they intend to obey them or break them as AMA members



oh, also, Rules come from AMA, Regulations come from the gubberment:
Folks could easily be obeying our rules while in violation of federal regulations
... and care more about our rules as to keep their insurance while having no intention of obeying the law

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Greg Hahn has never held that job to the best of my recollection. He came to the AMA as the Technical Director, the job he currently holds, from a position at Great Planes/Hobbico. Beyond that, the issues the model rockets folks had were pretty well documented and they handled them nicely and I do not recall that the AMA had any involvement in it.

When the new rules go into effect people can choose to do as they wish, just as people are free to follow or ignore speed limit signs and a whole host of other laws that require voluntary compliance.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

The FAA clearly stated that if things go as they look to be going that the use of a CBO safety program accepted by the FAA is one path to compliance with the rule. So it is incorrect to imply that that if you use a CBO safety program that you are breaking any rules.

Now I suppose you could ask if people who are AMA members intend to ignore the AMA Safety program if it is accepted by the FAA and do what they please even if it is not in accordance with the program. In that light I guess we could also ask who plans to speed today, who plans to run red lights, who plans to not carry insurance on their car and so on.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

most laws are voluntary compliance:
speed limits, tax evasion, and the law against murder are all voluntary compliance
with a punitive consequence for the folks caught not complying.

but the OP made it pretty clear
he know some will choose to do what they wish and some will choose to do as they are told,
and he simply asked how many are choosing A vs B


As for AMA members being free to do as they wish at AMA clubs,
is that really how a Community Based Standards Org runs its chartered clubs...
is that how we are presenting ourselves to the FAA, a wildbunch of guys free to do as they wish?
Or are we trying to claim there's some kind of oversight and control by the standards org as 'self-regulating'?
We can be self regulating, or we can be free to break our own rules... we cant be both

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Once again in the interest of keeping an absurd argument going you have chosen to interpret something in the most bizarre manner possible.

I said no such thing. What I asked of you is if you were implying that there will be AMA members who might ignore all the rules, AMA and FAA. That certainly does not mean doing so at an AMA chartered club site, or anything else.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

It may mean to you only what you want it to mean.

I am not going to scrutinize the question nor am I defending it.

It's just a question.

The other observations are just that, observation with a blend of evidentiary opinion</p>

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Mine didn't. I just recently moved from Mexafornia to Idaho.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I see the heavy hitters are here now.

My statement is based on the facts as were known at the time.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Similar to a lot of you guys, from the first day of hearing about potential FAA involvement I began considering for myself the question posed in this poll.

I have one airplane that probably flies faster than 100 mph. Would I slow down my flying if there's a 100 MPH speed limit? No I would not slow down. If any of the three clubs I belong to told me to slow down, yes of course I'd slow down. But, I fly at other places besides my AMA clubs.

As far as possible enforcement outside of AMA fields, I think back to Jr High and making M-80s and Cherry Bombs. There actually is a slight connection... In the mid sixties as a kid we mail ordered powder, M-80 casings, Cherry Bomb casings, underwater fuse - everything we needed. We were just kids, we sent cash and it came in the mail! I don't mind saying we were well stocked with Cherry Bombs. But suddenly we could no longer purchase these necessary items of our youth and if I recall correctly it wasn't the result of any new particular law or change in magazine ad policy - it was shipping laws if I recall. It was all about shipping and that's why our supply chain came to an end. Rats! lol, but it was probably a good thing in retrospect.

Fast forward to present day and suddenly heavy shipping restrictions are applied to jet engines. That would cut a lot of the business right there. It's not really so far fetched.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I see we're straying off the orignal question, and rolling right into supposition-ville.</p>

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Lol, The dictatorship of the United states can't even balance a budget or enforce 99% of the laws already on the books. I think we are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. I will continue to fly safely whether it be at an AMA sanctioned field or an outlaw field. But, I will continue to fly.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

From the fringe, a voice of reason.
<span style="font-size: small">Thank you for your candid response.
</span>

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

+1 Well said.

I am an AMA member but fly on private land. Call me an outlaw, but we operate our aircraft in a safer manner than the local AMA chartered clubs. Safe operations and AMA chartered clubs seem to me to be mutually exclusive.

Bliksem

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Did you vote?</p>

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Silent
You should be directing your suppositions and inferences towards Cottco, not me,
cause this is HIS thread and inquiry, not mine.

He put forth a real simple question of who is going to do A, and who is going to do B,
and if you want to redefine what he has made for A & B then you need to talk to him.

I made the point (to him) that he should have stated a qualifier to his question-
and that is something you chose to completely ignore
just to RA argue that there could be CBO exemption and its probability




we might have to wait a long time to see someone post about that
... oh wait, theres one right there

IF the club steps up and forces him to slow down he will.
Cause I seem to recall a discussion over speed limits having to be enforced by the club (for PPP)
and the AMA was very specific in saying that it is up to the pilot not the club to obey the speed limits from Muncie.

There you have it,
Muncie has said the clubs dont have to enforce the speed limit ( thats a members personal responsibility),
and we heard this guy say he is going to fly fast but will slow down if the club tells him to (but still fly fast off club).
That there is intent to violate the regs off club, and on club, till the club slows him down (which muncie said it dont have to do)

oh, I appreciate the guys honesty and wish him years of safe flying at whatever speeds

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

The sun rises in the east. Now, let's see how many nonsensical posts from KE that generates.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Yes, that is correct, I would violate the 100 MPH rule on private property but I would adhere to Muncie at AMA fields, regardless if a local club enforced a speed limit or not. Thank you KE, it's very kind of you and I wish you safe flying as well!

Dave

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Could one deduce that you are the official representitive of the kiddies playing king of the hill based on your provisional statements, which concur with the omnidrectional ufo sightings so often reported and discussedin the numerous, non-stop, never ending AMA debates that the OPmentioned at the onset ofthis particular thread?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I think you got it, KE.

It may useful to make note of the fact (from [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/question.aspx]FAQ[/link] on the AMA website) that compliance with the COB rules would be voluntary. We all know how that worked out for compliance with FAA's AC 91-57.

"Q. How will the FAA and/or the AMA enforce these restrictions?

The enforcement of the Federal Aviation Regulations within the Code of Federal Regulations (CFRs) fall under the jurisdiction of the FAA. Enforcement of the sUAS regulation and the adopted standards will be at the discretion of the FAA. AMA will continue to encourage voluntary compliance with its policies, procedures and National Model Aviation Safety Code."

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Just switch to 75MHz and fly an inch above the ground. Now you have a surface model that goes 100+ mph. [&:]

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

why even post this thread? ridiculas

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I highly doubt the FCC is going to give half a -beep- what I'm flying off my driveway way out in the countryside, so no, FCC changes won't have any affect on what I fly.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Cj rumly is trying to be another kid or ferret so lets see how many nonsensical posts from ke and Cj agrees with.lol Oh. no ones going to stop me from flying if iam flying safely. joe

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Think we can get the DOT to start mess'n with the rc car guys?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

The DOT can't even touch full scale cars that aren't run on public roads.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

You are correct, this is a ridiculous thread.

Did you vote yet?

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

You are correct, FCC will not care but, and this is a big but, the FAA just might care.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Well, unless cattle gain the ability to call in a report, they won't either. I'm seriously that far out into the sticks.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

I have not found that anyone in the AMA is a noted expert in model or high power rocketry.....and that airline pilot you speak of is one of those that suffers from the illusion that he, being an airline pilot, is therefore an expert about anything he brings his mind to bear on....;) There is no permit required for model rockets as he thought and there is no 5k altitude limit after which you need a permit as stated by the AMA, as a simple perusal of the NAR and Tripoli web sites, as well as the FAA 101.21 rules on model rockets, will show.

Basically model and mid power rockets weighing up to 3.3lbs with no more than 4.4 oz of propellant do not require a "permit" or waiver of any kind.
(updated in 2009..previously, mid power models needed a notification to the local FAA entity before launch) High power rockets with power greater than a G motor of 160n/s (or a model with multiple motors of more than 320n/s) require an FAA airspace waiver for a specific site, time and date to be legally operated. However, it is a very rare model or mid power rocket that exceeds 5k agl. The power limits for model and mid power rockets do have the effect of limiting altitude to less than 5K feet, in the very vast majority of cases.

As model rockets and even high power rockets tend to operate for only a few moments in the national airspace, they are not considered to be all that much of an issue...they simply do not have the persistence of duration that model aircraft and sUAS aircarft have. Even the high alitude high power models typically have a system that delays primary recovery system opening until the rocket has fallen back to a low altitude...the larger HP models rarely much time hanging under a chute above 500-1000 feet, as no one wants to chase it for miles......

A side note to LCS...your previously mentioned hope in post 8 in this thread is granted, in terms of who may obtain FAA waivers, if the same process holds true for waivers related to model aircraft operations. FAA waviers for rocket operations have been granted to national groups, local clubs without national affilation, educational entities and even to informal goups and single individuals that have requested one.

RE: If rules change, will you honor new rules?
 

Well, I fly in a "cow field"  and no  one is going to even bother to tell me to slow down.  I'm more worried about how heavy handed they might get with FPV.