AMA fields that exclude AMA groups.
 

I know its every clubs right. No 3D or drones allowed. But they ask the AMA for all their protection. Should all the clubs be promoting and not excluding AMA groups.

Should the clubs that exclude AMA groups / members be permitted to be allowed to have all AMA protections given to their field? Like events, Should they be excluded from additional insured events. Should they be allowed to receive AMA grants? I just don't get an AMA Club that would not want to welcome AMA flyers even if they fly 3D or Multirotors.

The biggest question is, do clubs exclude these groups due to they don't like the group or could it be a hate of these groups. I'm not against on having an event like a warbird only event. I love watching those high dollar scale warbirds. Its not for me to spend the funds on the heavy warbirds. I tried it but I got board flying in circles. Its not that I don't have the building skills to build. My first scratch airplane was a Ninja Star.

I prefer to fly good flying ARF aircraft. Sport, profile, gliders and multirotor. Don't forget the 3D group is clam free for the past 6 years according to the AMA. So it cant be a safety concern.

I think this AMA fields can turn out to be a real concern to the AMA.

Crash99

The AMA is not going to, nor should it be involved in the decisions you noted above. Not practice or feasible, or advised for that matter. The club decides, pure and simple. There are some clubs that are electric only, should they not be afforded the full protection and involvement from the AMA because they don't allow nitro or gas? Many don't allow turbines, for the same reasons some clubs are only electric (noise, size of field). If you're wondering what a club is all about, look them up online, most have their bylaws posted. Visit some and talk with people about what is and what is not allowed. Not that you have or would, but just in case if you don't agree with the clubs position, best to not get vocal about it before trying to join. Might not make for the best welcome aboard. You'll find different clubs have different traditions and expected ways of behavior. Best to figure that out before you join.

Good luck.

As has been said clubs are free to make their own choice as to what they allow to fly. That being said I do think the AMA should do more to discourage clubs from excluding various types of models unless they
have a good reason for doing so such as the size of their field or being close to full scale operation.

Good points were made and I agree that clubs have the right to exclude groups but unless the club has just cause like noise restrictions by their location or size and so on maybe the AMA should exclude benefits to that club.

Coming from a club that welcomes all AMA groups and don't have issues with getting along, I am having a hard time with a club that would exclude a group do to no reason.

Maybe they should be excluded from some benefits that the clubs that promote the AMA.

It's really a shame when the Entitlement Mentality doesn't carry over from real life into our hobby.

You're talking about one group excluding something...because you don't like the fact that another group excluded something. Does that seem to be an odd position to take?

Try to find a jet field!! Talk about being discriminated against!! As I have been told, if you don't like the way your "home club" is being managed, become a leader and an Officer in order to make changes!

Yup, that may actually be your best bet. That's exactly what got me involved in one of the clubs I belong to now, I didn't like what I saw happening with helis getting singled out and eventually banned. It took two years and lots of work, but they were eventually brought back. Funny part, I don't fly them. But if that happened with heli's, there's no saying that Nitro birds, or electrics wouldn't be next. Giant scale and jets do get squeezed out sometimes though, for sure.

Due to the hobby being my life, I actually went through the expense and he!! of moving closer to a jet field that is the best jet field on the West Coast of Florida. I tried the Officer thing for awhile, but sometimes you just can't change "city hall".......

The important part is to become involved. In a healthy club, the officers are elected to serve the members, NOT to make club policy.

Astro

This topic comes up regularly.

All AMA chartered clubs pay a fee to be a chartered club.

Clubs can limit operations as they see fit. Many of these restrictions are due to noise, size of the field, location of the field, proximity to full-size aircraft, proximity to residential areas, highways, etc. Others are because they clubs focuses on a particular type of aircraft/flying (e.g., gliders).

Also, many fields are on private property. You wouldn't be too happy if the AMA told you what you had to do on your own property would you?

You may have some recourse if the field is on public property although that can be an uphill battle as well.

Where did you get you statistics on 3D claims? Last I heard the AMA does not maintain specific types of claims data.

Yup, being an officer, or even a volunteer for a club can be a tough, and sometimes thankless job. There are those who get those positions and hold onto them for dear life. term limits might make sense, it's usually a good idea to get a fresh perspective on things, but then again there is not telling if others even want the jobs.

We have one member in our club who has multiple turbines, most of the fields in the area won't let him fly, even ones with tons of open space. He's on the jet circuit now and usually goes from CT to PA to fly. We're thrilled when he comes up to the field and he always gets preference when flying. His name is Wes, you might have bumped in to him at an event. Nicest guy in the world, and man does he love his toys!


Edit...you got one helluva gallery!

Good job! It takes a special person to be willing to step up to the plate to make change happen and very few are willing to do it.

Some people don't find turbines screaming enjoyable. Some people don't find dodging 50 lb monsters that go out of control because some idiot wants to smash his rudder on the runway fun. Some people don't like the high pitched whine of a heli engine or whirling knife blades just a few feet away.

Somewhere out there there's an R/C club for everyone. If you can't find one, you can always start one.

A club is a group of like minded people.

If you and 4 buddies got together and formed a glider club would it be fair if the AMA said you have to let gas guys fly there?

I admit that it bothers me when a type of flying is excluded, say a club that flys giant scale but doens't allow what they define as "3D"

Bingo!

+1
Clubs dictate policy not the AMA.
Anything can be changed it just takes effort and the willingness to step up.

Mike

First, RCFLYERDAN, your and the rest of you are always welcome to fly with us. See we welcome all AMA members and exclude no one. See we fly what we bring and we all get along.

Now just because you can exclude groups from your field, does not make it right

Clubs must follow the AMA Safe Code.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

If that's what the club wants, then it's right for the club.

Nothing ever gets banned for no reason. 3d pilots can be very inconsiderate of others, leading to that kind of flying being banned in many clubs. If you don't want it happening in your club, don't hover over the runway or get in other's way who are flying the circuit. Sometimes helicopters aren't allowed for the same reason. For multirotors, I don't see why they would want to fly them at a club field, but if they did and were banned it would probably be for jerkish behavior too.

Two clubs that I fly at exclude turbines because the landowners have specifically requested that turbines be excluded. So, should the clubs allow turbines in the name of inclusiveness and lose their flying sites as a result, or is this a situation where it is OK?


Three other flying sites, two in City parks, the other not, only allow electrics planes, again because the parks departments and/or land owners are concerned about noise. So is this a situation where it is OK to ban an AMA group or ignore the owners and risk losing the flying sites?


It seems that many think the decision to prohibit certain kinds of planes/groups is based on a dislike of the prohibited group. That has rarely been my experience. Bans are almost always the result of restrictions that come from the land owners or other limitations that are needed in order for the site to even exist.

One of the things that has made the AMA as successful as it has been for decades is granting clubs the basic human right of Freedom of Association.

If you have respect for the wishes of the majority at a RC Club, you don't try to force your will upon them. You either look for ways to fit in, or else move on.
This is the way I handle my Combat , Speed and Control Line flying....I do it elsewhere.
It would never occur to me that I should make an issue out of it.

Well, maybe I just don't have that Entitlement Mentality....?

Are you personally against 3D flying?

I've found quite the opposite, 3D pilots tend to be excellent pilots and I have several around here that I have no qualms about flying any of my review planes from gliders to jets so that I can get the pictures I want.

I've seen the so called "inconsiderate 3D pilot" labeled as such when the 3D pilot was flying by himself and doing his thing, when someone went out with a trainer and started doing touch and go landings with a student, then complaining loudly that the 3D pilot was being inconsiderate, as opposed to waiting 5 minutes for him to land before starting a buddy box session.

Who said they din't?

Mike

Both you and Silent av8tor have got it right , clubs get shaped by the flying styles of those who belong to and do the "heavy lifting" in the club , and by the type of flying their area typically provides for . Turbines are a great example ; Since they generally need more flying room than the local club field has to offer , there is no turbine flying allowed there . An hour or so away there is a turbine club with the nice big field needed to support turbine operations and there is no Heli flying allowed there (likely no 3D either) .

Bottom line here = any one single club simply CAN'T be all things to all people , and all except those who like seeing controversy where there isn't any , are fully aware of and have no problem whatsoever with that fact ......

I'm lucky, I don't hear any of this.

We have enough room for tubines, no noise restrictions, two runways so the heli guys have their own runway with a central pits, we aerotow, and in the afternoon the glider guys setup a winch and blow a horn or whistle during launch and everyone stays out of the way till the line is on the ground.

All for 50 bux a year and the city mows the grass

:eek:...what a deal!

That's a dream come true.

Very True!! This is why over the past 5 years, I actually belonged to 4 different clubs. Some guys thought I was crazy to drive 110 miles one way to fly my jets, or 52 miles to fly my CARF 3.1m Extra, but this is what I had to do for my own personal enjoyment of the hobby. Each club provided a different setting and mentality of the different planes/jets flown at that clubs' fields. My home club, 8 miles away, became a " beginners'/foamy and heli" field". Large gas and jets became very unwelcomed there. Finally, due to family issues keeping me in St. Pete went away; I then had the freedom to move to the best and most stable field out of the 4 that allows ALL aspects of the hobby. The men usually act as "grown-ups" and are patient to wait their turn, should they not want to fly with a 3D guy, foamy guy, flight training, or jet guy. Fortunately, our club has the room to have a totally separate heli part of the field with their own huts and set up.
Now, I have lived up North before too. I understand the limited flying time, due to the seasons. And, there are more hobby enthusiast that can only fly on the weekends, due to their jobs. All I can still recommend, is patience for your fellow hobbyist, no matter what he is flying. So what if you have to be at the flying field for an extra hour or so? Isn't this is why we are also in the hobby, is to get out in the country, and visit with fellow members?

It is sometime true that clubs have a good reason to restrict certain types of models but many times that is not the case, I don't the OP was suggesting that any club should have to do something that would cause the lose of their site.

Many times, since I have belong to several clubs at one time per year, it has to do more conservative and older thoughts........right or wrong. Since I fly jets, I have found with the politics of it, that in the early days of jets, they were thought of as a high speed flying bomb. So, IMHO, Clubs' Presidents convinced County Officials that a turbines were dangerous and a fire bomb. In realilty, jets have become more safe then electric planes. Since CC has a fire rescue cart, a study was performed as to what caused more fires after impact.............the winner went to electrics!!

Single club can't be all things ??? Why is that? We fly everything here with no issues. Now we have no restrictions and our Dues are $25 per year.

Maybe it's the attitude of the clubs members themselves. A good club vs bad club. There is none of our guys with a bad attitude.

I have to agree that the 3D group is the most nice guys around no mater what club I visit. No need to hate on them.

I have also notice they end up flying the new aircraft due to their skill level. The 3D guys have a quicker reaction time. That can make all the difference between taking home a airplane or a bag of balsa.

Unfortunately I see this thread degrading into another one of Crash99's "3D pilots are better than everybody else because............", as most of his threads in the AMA Forum as of late have been. My first inclination is to shut this thread down because we've seen many of the same sorts of this thread in the past. However, I will give it a little bit of leeway and see where it goes. But know this, and the very next hint I see with anymore of this "3D pilots are better than others because "???????" I will lock down the thread without any further warnings.

Ken

The answer has already been given, every club can't be everything to everyone. There are plenty of reasons why some clubs will not allow nitro/gas motors, or turbines, or large scale planes. It is what it is. Make the best of what each club has and have a good time flying.

The OP's message is loud and clear..if you do not like 3D flying at your field, you have a "Bad Attitude".

On multi rotors, the reason I fly at the club site is its a safe place to fly it. Even the AMA host this type of events.

The question still remains the same. But let's change it. Should clubs without restrictions receive benefits like grant money ect that exclude AMA groups.

If I remember correctly, back around 2008 I receive the top 5 items that cause accidents at a field was a club attitude. I think this could be the leading cause on a club restrictions on AMA groups.

I am thankful to have clubs here in Missouri that take the good attitude of not restricting groups. Not saying all Missouri fields have this attitude. There is 1 for sure.

Crash99