Installing dubro hinges in ARF
09-16-2012 | 12:28 PM
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From: Peabody,
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Installing dubro hinges in ARF
Hello all,
I just obtained my first ARF and getting back into the hobby after 10 years. I need some advice on installing the dubro hinges. After reading a number of threads I have yet to read (I probably couldn't find) a way of recessing the pin part of the hinge. Since the edges that I have to cut into only have a slice thru the monocote because they were set up to use CA hinges, is there a way to get under the monocote to cut the relief so the center of the hinge lays in there without cutting the monocote? Second, I'm reading the people who use epoxy push the epoxy in with a shaved down popsicle stick or tooth pick, or t-pin then apply epoxy to the flat of the hinge then push in. I see how you first put a oil or vaseline on the hinge pin so to not bind up the pin later, but I don't see how the epoxy on the flat wouldn't stay on the flat when pushed in do the the snug fit, I think it would stay on top of the surface being the monocote would act like a squeege. I was also thinking of going with the Pacer or Zap hinge glue since it's cleans easier, the Gorilla glue seems it would be a little trickier since it foams up. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Pat
I just obtained my first ARF and getting back into the hobby after 10 years. I need some advice on installing the dubro hinges. After reading a number of threads I have yet to read (I probably couldn't find) a way of recessing the pin part of the hinge. Since the edges that I have to cut into only have a slice thru the monocote because they were set up to use CA hinges, is there a way to get under the monocote to cut the relief so the center of the hinge lays in there without cutting the monocote? Second, I'm reading the people who use epoxy push the epoxy in with a shaved down popsicle stick or tooth pick, or t-pin then apply epoxy to the flat of the hinge then push in. I see how you first put a oil or vaseline on the hinge pin so to not bind up the pin later, but I don't see how the epoxy on the flat wouldn't stay on the flat when pushed in do the the snug fit, I think it would stay on top of the surface being the monocote would act like a squeege. I was also thinking of going with the Pacer or Zap hinge glue since it's cleans easier, the Gorilla glue seems it would be a little trickier since it foams up. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Pat
09-16-2012 | 03:41 PM
#2
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RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
I slice the Monocote on each side of the hinge location, cutting at an angle towards the slot at maybe 45 degrees? This gets the monocote out of the way and leaves room for the pin to be recessed in one step.
I converted to Gorilla glue as I can use the bottle tip as an applicator. After many years of using other processes, this seems simplest/easiest for me. I just push some glue in the length of the slot, then push the pre-oiled hinge in to place. If some comes out during the setting process it's nothing a #11 blade can't remove quickly.
I converted to Gorilla glue as I can use the bottle tip as an applicator. After many years of using other processes, this seems simplest/easiest for me. I just push some glue in the length of the slot, then push the pre-oiled hinge in to place. If some comes out during the setting process it's nothing a #11 blade can't remove quickly.
09-16-2012 | 04:20 PM
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From: Peabody,
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RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
Hi Ahicks,
I just looked on the Gorilla Glue website and they have (Gorilla Glue) and also (Wood Glue) I'm assuming you are talking about the straight Gorilla glue. How much do you apply in the slot? do you moisten the slot first? and do you put any glue on the hinge, or just the slot and put it in. Also when it does expand does it push the hinge out? and during the expansion period you keep picking it out or do you wait till it dries? I'm thinking of going this route since epoxy is a PIA to work with. By the way is Gorilla glue brittle once dry or is it more flexible?
Thanks for your help,
Pat
I just looked on the Gorilla Glue website and they have (Gorilla Glue) and also (Wood Glue) I'm assuming you are talking about the straight Gorilla glue. How much do you apply in the slot? do you moisten the slot first? and do you put any glue on the hinge, or just the slot and put it in. Also when it does expand does it push the hinge out? and during the expansion period you keep picking it out or do you wait till it dries? I'm thinking of going this route since epoxy is a PIA to work with. By the way is Gorilla glue brittle once dry or is it more flexible?
Thanks for your help,
Pat
09-17-2012 | 03:37 AM
#4
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
Straight Gorilla glue, the small bottle! Even that's a near lifetime supply. Not sure of shelf life. The bottle I've been using seems to be getting pretty thick, is about 2 years old?
Hard to say how much I'm using. Not much. The stuff is REALLY thick, so you can't measure by the number of drops used? You could experiment with a slot cut in a piece of scrap?
I started by wiping the glue surface of the hinge across a wet sponge. Don't do that any more as I failed to see the benefit? Your results may vary.
I put the glue in the slot.
I've never seen it push a hinge out.
I will generally wipe any excess off with a paper towel right away. Then I wait for it to dry prior to any further cleanup.
I hate the unpredictable setting time with epoxy. This stuff seems much simpler, and seems to hold the hinges just as well.
Best of luck, -Al
Hard to say how much I'm using. Not much. The stuff is REALLY thick, so you can't measure by the number of drops used? You could experiment with a slot cut in a piece of scrap?
I started by wiping the glue surface of the hinge across a wet sponge. Don't do that any more as I failed to see the benefit? Your results may vary.
I put the glue in the slot.
I've never seen it push a hinge out.
I will generally wipe any excess off with a paper towel right away. Then I wait for it to dry prior to any further cleanup.
I hate the unpredictable setting time with epoxy. This stuff seems much simpler, and seems to hold the hinges just as well.
Best of luck, -Al
09-20-2012 | 05:38 PM
#6
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
PDF, you have been given good advice in regards to installing DuBro hinges. I was a DuBro hinge fan once and wouldn't use anythinhg but, but I would suggest you reaccess your thinking. CA hinges when installed properly work just fine and are extremely easy. Keep an open mind. Don't get stuck in yesterdays technology. Just my opinion.
09-20-2012 | 05:53 PM
#7
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
ORIGINAL: Tom Nied
PDF, you have been given good advice in regards to installing DuBro hinges. I was a DuBro hinge fan once and wouldn't use anythinhg but, but I would suggest you reaccess your thinking. CA hinges when installed properly work just fine and are extremely easy. Keep an open mind. Don't get stuck in yesterdays technology. Just my opinion.
PDF, you have been given good advice in regards to installing DuBro hinges. I was a DuBro hinge fan once and wouldn't use anythinhg but, but I would suggest you reaccess your thinking. CA hinges when installed properly work just fine and are extremely easy. Keep an open mind. Don't get stuck in yesterdays technology. Just my opinion.
BTW, I have switched to 100% gas power. The extra weight involved, and the way they shake kind of pushes the envelope out aways... The CA types may work out well with other power. Won't argue the point.
09-20-2012 | 06:10 PM
#8
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
You are correct, I've never experienced a CA hinge failure. The CA hinges I've installed have never been a cause for a failure. I've studied them and feel absolutely confident in them. With "gas" it might be a different story.
When I did use DuBro pin hinges, I use to use a straw to suck up some epoxy and then blow it into the hinge slot. Try it, you'd be surprised how easy it works, Keep some denatured alcohol and paper towels handy. Also 2 hour epoxy gives you plenty of time to get things done..
When I did use DuBro pin hinges, I use to use a straw to suck up some epoxy and then blow it into the hinge slot. Try it, you'd be surprised how easy it works, Keep some denatured alcohol and paper towels handy. Also 2 hour epoxy gives you plenty of time to get things done..
09-29-2012 | 08:28 AM
#9
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
To PDF,
Here is a couple of earlier tips (2008 or so on this subject). Hope you find them useful.
They are short and sweet and work well.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10670261
and
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7976350/tm.htm
Cheers
DinD
Here is a couple of earlier tips (2008 or so on this subject). Hope you find them useful.
They are short and sweet and work well.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10670261
and
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7976350/tm.htm
Cheers
DinD
09-30-2012 | 05:32 AM
#10
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
If a gas size plane last very long, CA hinges are not adequate. I also use DuBro hinges but have changed my installation procedure from the difficult task in the past. I now use a multi tool to cut the hinge slots. I don't know about other brands, but the Harbor Freight cutting head is a perfect thickness for the DuBro hinges. Where the old method took a couple of hours of significant effort inserting a forked cutter into the knife slice and then digging out center with unpredictable slot thickness, the multi tool is simple and fast taking about fifteen minutes to cut all slots perfectly.
Cutting the slots does require some hardwood strips as a resting guide for the cutting head. These are clamped/screwed to the bench and the part needing the slot brought to and against the guide by shimming the part so that the guide will provide a center cut. The cutter head then rest on the hardwood strip and pushed into make the slot cut.... all very easily done and a perfect thickness cut for the hinges.
After slotting, I use a rotary tool (dremel) with a cone cutter to provide the recess for the hinge line. The tip of the cone cutter keeps the tool in the slot and easily makes the necessary relief cut for the hinge pins.
Gluing... I still use 30 min epoxy but have changed how it is inserted into the slot. I used to insert by coating a #11 blade and working into the slot. I now make a paddle from plastic slightly thinner than the hinges that fits into a knife blade holder with a half dozen holes drilled into the paddle to carry glue into the slot. Works great. As always, before inserting a hinge, I fold it together, and dip the hinge line into a drop of 3&1 oil and then blot any excess oil onto a paper towel. The final step is done 5-10 minutes after setting the hinges. Using an eye dropper, one drop of alcohol is applied to the hinge pin and the hinges flexed to insure they are free.
Before gluing the mating slots, be sure there is no oil residue on the hinge. I've never felt a need to apply more oil for the second glue process. I do repeat the process of adding a drop of alcohol after both parts are glued and hinged.
Cutting the slots does require some hardwood strips as a resting guide for the cutting head. These are clamped/screwed to the bench and the part needing the slot brought to and against the guide by shimming the part so that the guide will provide a center cut. The cutter head then rest on the hardwood strip and pushed into make the slot cut.... all very easily done and a perfect thickness cut for the hinges.
After slotting, I use a rotary tool (dremel) with a cone cutter to provide the recess for the hinge line. The tip of the cone cutter keeps the tool in the slot and easily makes the necessary relief cut for the hinge pins.
Gluing... I still use 30 min epoxy but have changed how it is inserted into the slot. I used to insert by coating a #11 blade and working into the slot. I now make a paddle from plastic slightly thinner than the hinges that fits into a knife blade holder with a half dozen holes drilled into the paddle to carry glue into the slot. Works great. As always, before inserting a hinge, I fold it together, and dip the hinge line into a drop of 3&1 oil and then blot any excess oil onto a paper towel. The final step is done 5-10 minutes after setting the hinges. Using an eye dropper, one drop of alcohol is applied to the hinge pin and the hinges flexed to insure they are free.
Before gluing the mating slots, be sure there is no oil residue on the hinge. I've never felt a need to apply more oil for the second glue process. I do repeat the process of adding a drop of alcohol after both parts are glued and hinged.
09-30-2012 | 06:24 AM
#11
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From: SorrentoBritish Columbia, CANADA
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
I much prefer robarts hinge pins..You do need the backing for them... all you need to do is drill a hole...The hinge is strong....They are so easy to use , I have never had one fail...I have used them on everything up to my 1/3 scale Cub....I have Two . One that flys off the water and one that fly off land....
09-30-2012 | 12:59 PM
#12
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RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
ORIGINAL: AA5BY
If a gas size plane last very long, CA hinges are not adequate. I also use DuBro hinges but have changed my installation procedure from the difficult task in the past. I now use a multi tool to cut the hinge slots. I don't know about other brands, but the Harbor Freight cutting head is a perfect thickness for the DuBro hinges. Where the old method took a couple of hours of significant effort inserting a forked cutter into the knife slice and then digging out center with unpredictable slot thickness, the multi tool is simple and fast taking about fifteen minutes to cut all slots perfectly.
Cutting the slots does require some hardwood strips as a resting guide for the cutting head. These are clamped/screwed to the bench and the part needing the slot brought to and against the guide by shimming the part so that the guide will provide a center cut. The cutter head then rest on the hardwood strip and pushed into make the slot cut.... all very easily done and a perfect thickness cut for the hinges.
After slotting, I use a rotary tool (dremel) with a cone cutter to provide the recess for the hinge line. The tip of the cone cutter keeps the tool in the slot and easily makes the necessary relief cut for the hinge pins.
Gluing... I still use 30 min epoxy but have changed how it is inserted into the slot. I used to insert by coating a #11 blade and working into the slot. I now make a paddle from plastic slightly thinner than the hinges that fits into a knife blade holder with a half dozen holes drilled into the paddle to carry glue into the slot. Works great. As always, before inserting a hinge, I fold it together, and dip the hinge line into a drop of 3&1 oil and then blot any excess oil onto a paper towel. The final step is done 5-10 minutes after setting the hinges. Using an eye dropper, one drop of alcohol is applied to the hinge pin and the hinges flexed to insure they are free.
Before gluing the mating slots, be sure there is no oil residue on the hinge. I've never felt a need to apply more oil for the second glue process. I do repeat the process of adding a drop of alcohol after both parts are glued and hinged.
If a gas size plane last very long, CA hinges are not adequate. I also use DuBro hinges but have changed my installation procedure from the difficult task in the past. I now use a multi tool to cut the hinge slots. I don't know about other brands, but the Harbor Freight cutting head is a perfect thickness for the DuBro hinges. Where the old method took a couple of hours of significant effort inserting a forked cutter into the knife slice and then digging out center with unpredictable slot thickness, the multi tool is simple and fast taking about fifteen minutes to cut all slots perfectly.
Cutting the slots does require some hardwood strips as a resting guide for the cutting head. These are clamped/screwed to the bench and the part needing the slot brought to and against the guide by shimming the part so that the guide will provide a center cut. The cutter head then rest on the hardwood strip and pushed into make the slot cut.... all very easily done and a perfect thickness cut for the hinges.
After slotting, I use a rotary tool (dremel) with a cone cutter to provide the recess for the hinge line. The tip of the cone cutter keeps the tool in the slot and easily makes the necessary relief cut for the hinge pins.
Gluing... I still use 30 min epoxy but have changed how it is inserted into the slot. I used to insert by coating a #11 blade and working into the slot. I now make a paddle from plastic slightly thinner than the hinges that fits into a knife blade holder with a half dozen holes drilled into the paddle to carry glue into the slot. Works great. As always, before inserting a hinge, I fold it together, and dip the hinge line into a drop of 3&1 oil and then blot any excess oil onto a paper towel. The final step is done 5-10 minutes after setting the hinges. Using an eye dropper, one drop of alcohol is applied to the hinge pin and the hinges flexed to insure they are free.
Before gluing the mating slots, be sure there is no oil residue on the hinge. I've never felt a need to apply more oil for the second glue process. I do repeat the process of adding a drop of alcohol after both parts are glued and hinged.
Howard
09-30-2012 | 01:21 PM
#13
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
The tool is a multi function tool part number 67537. That is the variable speed model. They also have a one speed model. Either would be suitable. IIRC, the single speed has been selling around $20. Needed will be the cutting head that is about one inch wide that I think was an accessory item.
A pic of the process.
A pic of the process.
09-30-2012 | 02:18 PM
#14
Senior Member
My Feedback: (55)
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
ORIGINAL: AA5BY
The tool is a multi function tool part number 67537. That is the variable speed model. They also have a one speed model. Either would be suitable. IIRC, the single speed has been selling around $20. Needed will be the cutting head that is about one inch wide that I think was an accessory item.
A pic of the process.
The tool is a multi function tool part number 67537. That is the variable speed model. They also have a one speed model. Either would be suitable. IIRC, the single speed has been selling around $20. Needed will be the cutting head that is about one inch wide that I think was an accessory item.
A pic of the process.
Howard
09-30-2012 | 02:55 PM
#15
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
Have never seen a Hobbico slotting tool so can't comment. I'm thinking the advantage of a multi tool is that it does more than a slotting tool at no liability to cutting great hinge slots for pinned hinges. It will not however slot for CA hinges as the cutting tool is too thick. It works great as a flush cutting saw and a detail sander as well.
09-30-2012 | 04:06 PM
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From: Peabody,
MA
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
Hello AA5BY,
I have purchased the Great Planes slotter, I don't know if your familiar with it. I have a Harbor Freight close to me so I will check out the multifunctin tool. I'm going back and forth on Robart hinges for my next build a (Revolver 70) which is on my shelve waiting, and the Dubro. I like the Dubro due to more surface area especially on control surfaces with only a 1/2" thick leading edge. As others have stated the Robarts may need backing. I see your picture with the tool on a bare piece of wood. How does you system work if the wood is covered as in a ARF, is it a clean look? What I'm not happy about is that I can't seem to cut a nice slot in the monocote and them recess the barrell part of the hinge. Any suggestions how I can do this?
Thank you,
Pat
I have purchased the Great Planes slotter, I don't know if your familiar with it. I have a Harbor Freight close to me so I will check out the multifunctin tool. I'm going back and forth on Robart hinges for my next build a (Revolver 70) which is on my shelve waiting, and the Dubro. I like the Dubro due to more surface area especially on control surfaces with only a 1/2" thick leading edge. As others have stated the Robarts may need backing. I see your picture with the tool on a bare piece of wood. How does you system work if the wood is covered as in a ARF, is it a clean look? What I'm not happy about is that I can't seem to cut a nice slot in the monocote and them recess the barrell part of the hinge. Any suggestions how I can do this?
Thank you,
Pat
09-30-2012 | 05:52 PM
#17
RE: Installing dubro hinges in ARF
In the pic... the hardwood strip clamped to the bench serves as a rest for the cutting tool. I can't recall if I've cut through covering materiel that didn't have a prior knife cut but I doubt it would be any problem. It certainly is no problem when there is a knife cut. As offered, cutting the relief for the hinge pin is no problem with a rotary tool and a cone shaped cutter. The tip of the cone holds the cutter aligned with the slot and it is easy to hold the depth needed whether there is covering or not.
