Very well BA30.

Andrew or Matt, a refund of $350 will satify me. The original purchase price was close to $379. I woukd update my posts to include that I am now satisifed. Send me a PM and we'll talk.

TP

Where was this plane made anyway - Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, China.......... ?

I am interested to know exactly why the gear didn't come down. Did a piece in the gear come loose or break after it was retracted?Did you check the gear before you flew the plane? If you tested the gear, did you take into account the flying speed and wind conditions that would affect the performance of rotating gear? I have always had a problem with rotating gear not coming down properly in just about every plane. Sometimes you need to make adjustments to the gear in order for them to work properly. Even if KMP admitted a problem with the gear - you should have checked it before flight and not flown if the gear didn't operate correctly - or at least not used the gear.

Why didn't you check the replacement wing for damage as soon as it arrived. I always check my ARFs and kits when they arrive. I have seen the shipping centers and know what happens to the packages. They have coveyors that are 12 feet high. Packages fall off all the time. I don't see how a model could stand up to that kind of abuse. I don't know how you can expect a company to replace the wing again after weeks or months have gone by. What was their response to your request for another replacement?

I would also like to know exactly how many glue joints you found with no glue at all on them. A couple faulty glue joints on a rib is not going to cause a plane like this to break apart in flight. It still has fiberglass reinforcement I have flown arfs with hardly any glue used on the wings and have never had an inflight failure because of it.

I am not trying to flame you and I have no relation to KMP but I would like some clarification on your noted defects so I can make an informed decision about purchasing this plane.

Nakajima,

According to Andrew Kondor, the grease used to lubricate the air cylinder was too heavy. The solution is to take the cylinder apart, remove the old grease, and lubricate with light machine oil. The gear was tested on the ground and would achieve at least 10 cycles on a tank. Yes, I did take into account flying speed, not that it matters. There is no adjustment to be made to the gear; the gear extends via spring power. If you have a problem with your rotating gear, look at the CJM retracts. Their mechanism is well designed.

I left the replacement wing in the box when I received it because my flying season was over. What difference does that make?

Let's be perfectly clear - I do not expect the company to replace the wing. The company can either choose to issue me a refund or not. My intention was to inform others of the level of quality they could expect to receive should they choose to purchase a KMP product. Had I known what I do now, I would not have bought this plane. If Mr. Kondor does refund my money, I will note that although I had problems with the plane, the company did satisfy me.

I counted numerous faulty glue joints. I concur that a couple faulty glue joints on a rib would not cause the plane to break apart in flight. I think a couple faulty glue joints on a rib would cause the plane to break apart on landing.

I am impressed that you fly ARF's that have hardly any glue on the wings. If you are tring to make an informed decision about purchasing this plane and do not mind poor glue joints on a $350+ aircraft, you should probably take a closer look.

my problems are on here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_12...tm.htm#1211718

RE: Pictures....... (in reply to AKondor) Report This Post | (Post No. 18)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: KMP retracts.....

First things first.....my factory that makes the airplanes for us is not the manufacturer of the retracts. The retracts are sourced by the factory to accompany the kits. This being said, I am not suggesting that I am not responsible for the quality of any item that gets packaged with our kits. Simply put, I have to work with these people (factories) to help make them better when a problem comes up. Yes, the retracts in some situations need "tweaking". For example.... the rotating corsair retracts can use a thinner grease where the spring is in the system. I have had modelers tell me that by applying a lighter weight gear oil completely fixes the "not coming down and locking into place while FLYING" problem. We have of course brought this to the attention of the manufacturer and is in the process of being corrected. Most of the complaints that we have had relate to this and this is the fix for that problem.

As far as the gear coming out......perhaps softer landings may help the situation
All kidding aside, this problem has not been substantial by any means. The wood in all our kits is quite thick and of course plywood where the gear gets bolted to the wing. I think no matter how much plywood one uses, there is always going to be day somebody wished they could blame the manufacturer rather than the pilot.

As always, we offer 100% refund on the kit price if any of our customers is not satisfied with their kit after going over it. Things like the quality of the wooden mounts is something that all builders should double check before mounting engines, radio gear and retracts.

Cheers everyone.

Andrew Kondor

well "backafter30" I'm glad you can cut and paste from the thread I posted.
that still doesnt show anything here to as why you posted only THAT part.
If you had read the entire thread, which I assume you did, you would have
seen that I picked apart Andrew's comment above. But you only posted
HIS comment. I know that you posted this based on your comments here:
__________________________

"I would give Andrew Kondor a chance to "make this right".......This will be a litmus test to see if KMP can reach the level of customer service that will make loyal customers out of us as a whole.

I will accept a problem from time to time if I know the company will "take of me" when the time comes.
You clearly have a quality control issue, why not let KMP step up and do right by you? "
_________________________

I am I believe Toucan have BOTH tried to get our issues resolved, and I know of 2 others
here as well. we have not gotten any thing taken care of!

If you havent been involved with the dispute, dont just cut and paste out Andrew's comments
like you are showing something here that he is going to fix! I still have not gotten a response
back from him since October as to him seeing if the factory was going to get me a free wing
and gear. He stated to me that it would be either $75.00 for them, OR he would try to see if
they would send me a wing? I responded to let me know if they would give me the free wing
and if not, I would think about buying one at the reduced cost. I have not heard back!

the issue here that Toucano has brought up is showing that there is a problem with KMP products
and he is letting others know about it. I am one as well. NOW I know there are probably other
happy customers here that are flying them? I am happy that they are, but mine was in very
poor shape as well, and my wing looked as bad as the corsair pics he posted.

no "backafter30" go back and re-read my comments to Mr. Kondor in my thread I posted, and
than you will know WHY I am not happy with his response to the cut and paste comments you
posted above!

I have built and flown the KMP P-38. Everything seems to be in order. I liked the the kit except for a few very minor items.
I am now in the process of building the KMP Corsair for a friend. I am worried about flying it because it seems to have a number of weaknesses in the wing. The difference is night and day between the Corsair and the P-38. There is a large amount of fabrication left to the builder in the Corsair, more so than any other ARF I've built(5). The landing gears do not rotate well at all coming down. The rotating mechanism seems to bind, making the problem worse.
Installing the flaps proved to be a real problem. The plans call for Robart hinge points to be intalled. There is nothing to glue the hinges to in some of the wing trailing edge areas and the flap leading edges. This process took me two weeks to accomplish, not because I'm slow, but to try and figure out what to do. They are in, but I'm not happy with the end result!
The wing covering and fiberglass fuselage paint do not match at all. The wing is darker and shiny. The fuse is lighter and dull.
The way the cowl is installed allows for no air to escape that would cool the engine. I moved it a 1/2 inch forward to allow some air to pass thru. This required mounting 4 blocks to hold the cowl. There are also no pictures of where the the pushrods openings belong in the rear of the fuselage or where they should be cut.
I could go on, but this enough for me. Never again a KMP.
Bob S

Thanks for the clarification guys. I had a KMP GeeBee and I thought the quality of the fiberglass and construction was very good. I was dissapointed with the soft wire landing gear and the mounting of the wheel pants, but overall it was a very good plane for the money- at least everything fit, unlike planes I have had from other companies.

I'm surprised KMP hasn't responded to this situation. They are certainly on here alot promoting their products.

This is the only part that I wanted to cut and paste:

As always, we offer 100% refund on the kit price if any of our customers is not satisfied with their kit after going over it. Things like the quality of the wooden mounts is something that all builders should double check before mounting engines, radio gear and retracts.


He says he will offer a 100% refund.
Well he damn Skippy well better.
HIS WORDS.
Truth is, I like the guy...I met and spoke with him for a half an hour or so at the Hobby Visions show in Vegas, in Oct.
Would I buy any of his products?
Nope.
Not yet anyway.
Perhaps the P-38 if I was looking for a twin, that looks nice.
I have been posting in this thread because I want AJKondor to step up and do right by you. I want more companies like Horizon, DA and Kange's, service departments/policy's. I want more manufactures to step up to the plate and admit they have an issue, replace the product with QUALITY merchandise or STAND BY WHAT THEY SAID and give you the refund you so honestly DESERVE.

I don't defecate dollars, I work for mine like you do (assumptive, sorry) and when a company officer states in PUBLIC that he wants you to be 100% satisfied, I need to see him back it up PUBLICALLY.
He will then EARN my business in the future, and when he has a product that I want, I'll but it knowing he'll do right by me if I have a LEGITIMATE complaint, like YOU DO.

That's all I'm saying, I apoligize for not being more clear in my first few posts.
Good luck with your issue, I am looking forward to a positive outcome, for you AND for me.
Eldon

Eldon
thanks for the clarification. I agree I would like to see this issue
resolved for all parties involed. I have been told by Andrew that
for all the trouble I am having, if I wanted to order another plane
from them in the future, he would work with me on the price.

I would not mind buying another plane, the Hurricane would be
apealing, and I here a B25 might be out there as well. But with the
problems I have had, as well as others, I feel there is more to this
issue than just a couple lemons out there?

All for now from me, I am sitting back in the "wings" to see what happens.

Todd

Count me in as one who was, but is no longer, eyeballing a KMP ARF. I'll stick with WM for the time being. I wasn't all that thrilled with the fiberglas covering anyway. Mainly for the problems it could lead to patching up a ding. This ices it for me on KMPs products. At least with balsa and ultracote it isn't hard to cut into a wing for a look at things.

That about sums it up.[&o]

Well, at least Magnum engines have excellent service in todays market.

(Count me as a Magnum buyer forever!)

well guys, i am sorry to say that the service and quality of the man and i use this term loosly is just the way it is. He is from Thunder Bay ontario, i know him personaly. cuz he tries to run a hobby shop in town here. There is not one person who likes his ethics or the way he runs his busness. He reminds me of a star trek Verengy(bad spelling) I'm not bashing the guy, just speeking from experience. and yes the planes are made in china. Any other questions i can answer about him?

Let's focus on the problem, not the person. Also, give him a chance to response, to be fair . I hope he does

No word from KMP yet.

About Kmp, I have the P-38. This is the first unbuildable arf I've ever come across, the thing is a mess. I have a couple of post's in the twin-multi engine forum under KMP - VQ that describe the problems. Kondor promised a replacement but niether the hobby shop or I have been able to reach him. I hope it's because of the holidays. At this point I would want my money back, over 500 bucks. I'll keep trying and let you know. Any of you kmpy's out there that think the problems are minor want to buy a new kmp P-38? Garbage is extremely polite.

Well THAT settles it...KMP has LOST me as a potential customer.
Thank you RCU members who have blazed new trails, so I don't have to.
I will sing it from the rooftopa, KMP is garbage...

Jimmy, have you looked at the gripes in the twins section? There have been more than a few problems, I got mine four months ago and it like many had some bad parts. Andrew sent repalcement parts, which took a while to get, and was fair to deal with as far as the bad parts. Most of my problems were broken pieces. One of the booms had some pretty bad cracks in the fiberglass, both rudders were broken in half, all three retracts had surface rust on them and would not retract or extend, and there were some parts that just were not made correctly. The box had absolutely no shipping damage and things like the rudders that were in plastic bags stappled to the inside divider had to be broken when they were put in the box.

After gluing the pods, centers, and inner wings together I have left it to sit in the corner while I work on things that I know will fly with out "issues".

Cost of the kit is one thing but to spend another $700 to get it in the air and not fly right is throwing away money.

I feel for Andrew, he' s having to fix all the problems and deal with pissed off customers like us...

What a sadness. I too was quite interested in the KMP Hurricane, but after all this discussion, I'm positive I cannot take a risk on a KMP product. (I'm not entirely sure I'd even risk my time and materials if GIVEN a kit after reading all of this thread.) Regardless of how KMP manufactures their product, they MUST know customer relations in today's competitive market is CRITICAL - and boy does KMP seem to have a serious customer relations problem going here! The mystery here is how can a company with a substantial market investment NOT afford to absorb the cost of 1, 2 or even a dozen replacement kits??? What are their costs --- $200 or less per kit? Why not just GIVE a new kit away to mend hurt feelings? (If this is an isolated problem, it should only take a few giveaways) KMP will have to absorb the cost but imagine the cost of the advertising it will take to repair this kind of publicity and damage to their product reputation (if it is repairable at any cost, now... Can you say PINTO?) Whew, I pity the stockholders and partners. (Oh yes and my condolences to the "test pilots" who had to find out this problem for the rest of us.)

Its a bad day, really, for all involved. Really a shame to have some honest folks throw good $$$ away on a questionable product, a shame for all the rest of us looking at possible KMP product purchases in the future, a bad day for KMP, and perhaps a little downer for the hobby in general. But this type of thing happens.... regetably all too often in new business trends. The rules of the market are pretty simple; perform or perish. Sorry to say this may be the path we are on for KMP.

Ah well, maybe we'll see some other manufacturer ARF kit some new warbirds in the near future.... I hear Top Flight is thinking about a giant scale P-47 and the new Sea Fury kit would make a lovely ARF. All in all, the future is bright. Don't let a few dark clouds spoil the view.

Im not defending anyone here, but I know for a fact that Matt has had to do alot of moving and re-organizing lately, first when he moved to Seattle here, second last week when they moved to a new office area. So that may be part of the problem, but I cant vouch for anyone elses issues.......

Matt? Who is Matt?
I thought it is/was Anthony Kondor's company...Kondor Model Products...
This whole thread has been directed at Kondor...at least that's who I was commenting on...

Well, Matt runs the US office, the one you more than likely get when you call the KMP number Im betting.

Well THAT says allot..the rep in this country is only as good as his SUPPLIER...if his manufacture/SUPPLIER doesn't back up their products, you would have to sell HUNDREDS to make up the profit lost by replacing a dozen complete kits.
I don't know what all this Matt also sells, but if he isn't very diversified, a bad product line like this could put HIM out of business.
I do not wish to see ANY RC company go out of business, (even VMAR).
This is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. The MANUFACTURE/supplier needs to back up the product under a documented warranty replacement plan, and from time to time split the cost of the refund when necessary to the customer with the supplier.

As a business owner myself, I know first hand what customer service, (or lack of) can do to ones ability to be a successful company or last years poorly run memory. (Fusco Fiasco)
I hope Matt can get some sorely needed back up from Kondor in this instance.

Better time my friends,
Eldon