BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks FH for the info... will print and when I get to that point have it in my file... Must look great with the smoke... Does that system work well. I have a WACO 60 with a saito 100 thinking about adding smoke. Thanks again...

FHHuber

The soke works fine... when you finally get it all adjusted right. I'm tempted to stick a remote needle in to replace the TME "valve" that squeezes the tube. The .91 needs a relatively small flow of fluid, very hard to adjust with the TME valve.

Excess fluid causes high backpressure in the muffler... and can cut your power over 50%. Even correct fluid flow will cut power some. Its noticeable. (Like turning the .91 into a .70)

Maybe purchasing a smoke muffler would help that.... I doubt it would without affecting the backpressure to the fuel tank though.

RCJake-rcu

My Feedback: (7)

FHHuber,

Can you program your radio to mix the throttle over the smoke channel to make the pump proportional? The Slimline Showtime Smoke System can be mixed this way so that when the engine is at lower rpms, there is less smoke oil sent to the muffler and you will also get full oil at full throttle.

FHHuber

I don't know if the smoke pump controller I have is proportional. I doubt it...

You could power the smoke pump with a ESC for an electric model... that would make it proportional. But I don't think that would be the way to do it.

Try a remote needle that has ability to be adjusted by a servo in flight. (or... modify an old carb to go between the muffler and the engine... You'd have to set the barrel to never close more than 50%)

***

Note... .72 and .91 4-stroke engines are on the low end of what is appropriate for adding a smoke system. (smaller does not make enough heat for good smoke) So the variable pump pressure may be more efficient for a larger engine. I doubt its efficeint for these small engines.

RCJake-rcu

My Feedback: (7)

Quote:

"Note... .72 and .91 4-stroke engines are on the low end of what is appropriate for adding a smoke system. (smaller does not make enough heat for good smoke) So the variable pump pressure may be more efficient for a larger engine. I doubt its efficeint for these small engines."

I was thinking that if the pump is always pumping the same amount of smoke oil in the engine at all rpms, it might tend to cool down the engine at low rpms and also create more back pressure then. If the smoke oil is delivered in direct proportion to the rpms, the engine might run smoother and more efficient all throught the rpm range. It would be nice if someone could try this and let us know. I have a Slimline Showtime Smoke system not being used, but not a small 4 stroke engine in a plane right now...

FHHuber

Yes... but the problem is regulating the SPRAY of the oil. When the engine has a small muffler with a low amount of heat... the oil neds to spray out into the exhaust gas, not drip. Atomization of the oil by the spraing action increases the smoke volume.

I tuned my smoke system for maximum smoke at 1/2 throttle. Nice amount of smoke... minimized the negative effects and you can't really see a reduction in smoke thickness at full power doing a high speed pass. (it is thinner than a 1/2 throttle pass... but you have to know to look for the difference)

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Who have you found to have the best prices on smoke systems... I have done some checking but not sure how much to spend... Never had smoke before and need something thats easy for a beginner to set up? Also size and weight... I want a system for the fokker and my WACO.. Thanks

FHHuber

The TME system costa about $90 retail. Its a bit high. You can get it mail order about $10 to 25 cheaper.

Yo CAN just get a ESC for an electric model and there are some windshield washer pumps that can handle the oils... and then buy tygon tube... you can make your own setup that way for around... $50.

You can save some more by wiring up your own electronic switch. About $12 in parts vs $30 for the ESC. (now where'd I put that link for all those neat electronic gizmo schematics... All the R/C accessories you wanted and couldn't afford to buy.)

WinterHawke

Bull-RCU,

I made the skids from scratch, using 1/4 inch plywood carved into axe-handle looking skids, and then made a U-shaped bracket out of a Dubro Strap to pivot on, and mounted that in a hardwood block behind the lower wing spare at the wingtip. I gave it some pivot by using a bungee cord (actually a pigtail hair band) attached near the leading edge. I don't have any sketches at this time, but should be able to put something together by the weekend.

But . . .

In our experiences, I'm not sure the tipskid is going to buy you anything on grass. When the wingtip goes done, it seems best to let it slide along. That's fine on grass, but flying on asphalt occasionally like we do, it seemed best to not grind off the Monokote too quickly. I'm not so sure that the skids, in fact, may actually hamper it a little in the grass, since it's one more thing out there to snag - at least on the 1/5th scale size triplane.[]

But either way, I'll try to post some notes on how we did it, so that anyone who has the itch can scratch it! And I can positively attest to the fact that they are fabulous on asphalt.

Sorry for the late post - was down in Zinzinnat visiting with family and my flying buddies down there this last weekend, and seeing how far along they are on their building projects (and lamenting how far behind I am in mine!).

'til later,

Lee McD
the WinterHawke

edgeman55

My Feedback: (25)

Hello WinterHawk,I just purchased a only flown twice triplane and have been following this forum.I will be flying it off asphalt all the time so I also look foward to some pics of your skid set-up.Was wondering if you guys did any mods to the elev. pushrod set-up.The wheel collers used for joining the rods together holds up?

FHHuber

For flying off asphalt, expecially whild getting used to the thing, add a steerable tailwheel.

I drilled my tialskid and used that as the tailwheel steering block. Bent a wire and hooked up a spring type steering to my pull-pull rudder horns. reomve the wheel collar that holds the wire and the tailwheel drops right off.

The plane has almost no ability to be taxied on pavement without this. It greatly improves you chances to take off with a slight crosswind. (instead of dragging a wingtip and groundlooping)

*****

I used a solder joint on my elevator pushrod. I don't trust setscrews in EZ connectors... why should I trust a setscrew in a wheel collar? (especially since I occasionally have a wheel collar come off and lose a wheel...)

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

I'm going to be flying off grass. Was still thinking of putting a tail wheel ( I know it takes away from the look but if it's easier to taxi... So what is the opinion or better yet experience of everyone when it comes to skids on the lower wing tips?

FHHuber

My skids didn't go back on when I rebuilt my lower wing. I needed them to protect the wingtips when learning ground handling of the thing... but now they just aren't needed.

I'll try to coax my digital camera (old and in bad shape) intotaking a decent pic of how I did the tailwheel. You can't see it when the plane is flying.

WinterHawke

Howdy, Edgeman . . .

Hopefully I'll be able to put something together for y'all this Saturday, when I knock the cobwebs off the Tripe (it's currently hiding from the weather in the garage!) - while I don't yet have a digital camera, I think I can get everybody something on how I did my skids.

And MOST DEFINITELY solder the two elevator pushrod halves, just like FFHuber mentioned. I could not ever imagine trusting a linear wheel collar to hold up on a flight surface control pushrod. I used the wheel collars to stabilize the pushrod, wrapped with light copper wire, and soldered the two permanently together.

I've found that I can taxi the Tripe reasonably well in the grass without a tailwheel in all but the strongest winds, and when it's that windy, that kite has no business flying! You simply hold DOWN elevator, pop the throttle with the rudder hard over, and she turns fairly well. However, it is the most extreme challenge trying to control it on asphalt as you would expect - semi-controlled groundloops is about all you can hope for when not at takeoff speed. So as much as I detest that training wheel in the back, if you're exclusive to asphalt, you're going to want it for sanities sake - just remember, it's only good for taxiing - it's of no use on takeoff, since the tail comes up (and should) right away!

'til later,

Lee McD
the WinterHawke

Sport_Pilot

I didn't think it was that hard. Just blip the throttle with a tad of down elevetor to make a sharp turn. Don't let the plane taxi fast. It can be tough to taxi on asphalt in a cross wind, but if you learn to keep the rudder, eleveator and ailerons in the proper orientation to keep the wind from tipping and pushing the plane around its not that hard to learn. It's not hard at all on to taxi on grass.

edgeman55

My Feedback: (25)

Thanks for the info guys,I already put a tail wheel on as I re=hinged the rudder with 1/4 scale nylon hinges.I will solder the pushrods together,look foward to the skid photos.

WinterHawke

Bull-RCU . . .

Finally had a chance to go over my GP DR1, and this is what I found (also comparing to the factory specifications):

Center of Gravity: As near as I can measure, it ended up at 2 1/2" back from the leading edge of the middle wing. Great Planes specifies 2 5/8" back, and that's probably just about right. I would not recommend going any further CG aft. With the CG where I have it, I can easily spin the triplane, and stop when I choose.

Elevator Throw: 1" Up and 1" Down - the same as the High Rate recommendation from Great Planes (they also list 3/4" for Low Rate). I do not use Low Rate, and not sure it's needed ( I tend to fly with controls a little toward the sensitive side - not much, but I like that better than soft). At 1" travel, with the CG as shown, sensitivity seems fine.

Rudder Throw: 2" Left and 2" Right - Great Planes recommends less than this (1 3/4" High Rate, 1 1/4" Low Rate). I'm very happy with the 2" setup, and again, I don't use Low Rate. I use the rudder quite a bit when I fly, but again, this setup doesn't feel too sensitive.

Aileron Throw: 7/8" Up, 7/8" Down, No Differential - Great Planes recommends 3/4" Up High Rate, 1/2" Low Rate, No Differential. Once again, I don't use Low Rate. My setup feels fine to me, with a good balance to the other controls. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the ailerons at the 1/2" setting, but that's probably me.

Differential, Coupling, and Exponential: While I don't have any in mine, I could see it being useful, due to the large adverse yaw characteristic of the Fokker Triplane layout (ailerons high up on the top wing only) - BUT - I use the rudder quite a bit when flying scale airplanes, and find that I don't need the differential if I use the rudder to set the turn - that's why the rudder's back there anyway. I also don't use (in fact have never used) coupled rudder and aileron, since I learned a long time ago what each stick does. But again, this could help those less rudder savvy, but I couldn't recommend any settings. And I don't use exponential - the plane, at least to me, doesn't feel that sensitive around neutral - I can put it just about anywhere I want smoothly.

IMHO, what Great Planes lists in their manual for Center of Gravity and Control Throws seems about spot on, although I've boosted the aileron and rudder a bit to suit my own flying style. Note that I fly strictly scale (including scale acrobatics) - I've NEVER tried any 3-D schtuff with the DR1, mainly cause the original in 1917 never did either[:'(].

Engine and thrustline: Again, I am factory stock on this, using the O.S. 70 Surpass (which tended to be kinda light in the noseweight department for me - needed lead in the cowling to balance). With this engine setup, I've had no problems with thrustline - the downthrust and right thrust feel fine.

Subwing: Other than making sure that it's secure, I did NOTHING special to the subwing - using the stock locating marks, I just bolted it on, and again, have had no problems. Flying buddy Del Johnson did, however, have a very interesting flight when his came loose (but he survived the flight), so keep an eye on it, just to be sure.

To sum up, if you start where Great Planes says in the Book of Instructions (and remember that's where all German Officer's learn their trade), you'll be just fine.

Just keep an eye on that lower wing.

Later today, hopefully, I'll have some information on my wingtip skids retrofit.

'til later,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke

WinterHawke

Wingtip Skids

I quickly decided to either add wingtip skids, or avoid asphalt altogether after flying my triplane for the first time. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone else to agree to get rid of the asphalt!

My Wingtip Skids, while not strictly scale, did meet several goals:

1) Had to be easy.
2) Had to be cheap.
3) Had to protect the lower wing bottom and trailing edge.
4) Had to "look right", with that Old Rhinebeck Axe Handle look.

So I studied the photos of the Old Rhinebeck Triplanes, and created an axe-handle shaped skid out of 1/4 inch 5-ply plywood, stained a nice wood color (walnut, I think). I first made a template out of 1/4 balsa to test and for shaping and sanding, 'cause it was easier to work.

The wing was modified by installing a balsa block behind the leading edge (about 1/2" by 1/2" by 1/2" or so) and a hardwood block (about the same size - scrounged) behind the main spar, both right against the tip rib, flush with the bottom of the wing.

The idea was to allow the skid to pivot (to protect that fragile lower wing from stress, if possible), so I made a pivot bracket using a Du-Bro Nickel Plated Steel Strap (#202) bent into a U-Shape, with the middle hole at the bottom of the "U". Yes, I know that the strap, as supplied is asymmetrical - I simple cut off the long end, and drilled a new hole so that it was! This gets mounted to the hardwood block using a small wood screw. The skid mounts to the bracket using a 2-56 SHCS and locking nut (I also used a 2-56 blind nut, with the tangs removed, to give the nut something to lock against).

At the front, I bent up a small piece of music wire to create a pair of hooks, and epoxied it into the balsa block so that the hooks would go on either side of the skid. Use either a small rubber band (or pig-tail hair band - which is what I used) to loop around the skids and hooks, allowing the skid a little bit of flex.

Hopefully, the attached photos will make this all a little clearer:

'til later,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke

edgeman55

My Feedback: (25)

Lee,Thanks for all this great info.Going to copy your skid design looks great.With the magnum 80 I also needed a little more weight up front so I installed a Ram on board ignitor system on the firewall.Works great.

WinterHawke

Edgeman55,

Good luck with your skids - I think you'll like how they come out.

'til later,

Lee McD
the WinterHawke

threewing

I have had a very good time with my DR 1. I did have a mid air with a Jap Zero that took off about 17 inches of the top . It still flew after the collision,and was able to bring it down on the runway. My question is there anybody out there with a top wing, outter strut and L mounting bracket , that they have left over from a crash. I need this to put mine back in the air. May be just the right hand end of the wing . Thank You ; Marc

HelloScott

Do I remember correctly? Tower had these for $199 last summer. Now, they are up to $249.00. From what I hear, that's probably still a bargain.

I am building Flair's Sopwith Pup kit now, but really want to get the Fokker so that I can have a WW1 flying buy mid summer. Question for your Fokker-uppers, I have a NIB Saito .65 that I was planning on putting in the plane. Will that be wimpy or suitable? I've flown for over 20 years, so I have those skills. I'm not looking to make this plane an aerobatic balsa missle, just want to fly and enjoy. And, I don't want to buy a bigger four banger if I can avoid it.

Lemme know your thoughts.

[email protected]

WinterHawke

Hello, Hello Scott (is there an echo here or what?!?)[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

IMHO you can probably get by with the Saito .65, but it's going to be close. Anything you can do to not add weight to the plane will help (like getting as much of the radio up front as possible) - I had to add a fair amount of weight to get mine to balance, but I probably could have been more aggressive with the radio setup, batteries and such.

Mine on the O.S. .70 is definitely not over-powered, but it does fly nice, and 100% power isn't needed except in the presence of those pesky British Scouts!!

Prop selection will probably make a difference - I intend to pay a little more attention to that this season - I've previously used a 15" prop, and the engine was not the least bit happy about it! Will kick it down to 14" and see if it helps. Old Flying Buddy DelJon has a 14" on his GP Tripe with the .70, and he has decidely more performance than I do (at least his plane does!).

Let us know the results if you do go triping this summer!

'til later,

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Hi All,

Took a while because of time restrictions, but with the help of a good friend Al Bro. I got my
GP Dr-1 fokker ready and had it's first madien flight today. Weather was perfect tonight. Slight wind right down the east / west runway. After double and triple checking everthing... Dicided to taxie of few times, refueled and decided to let it fly.

I must say because of my worries I spent way extra time and with all the help of you guys with set up it was one of the easiest first flights I've had. Took 2-3 clicks of down elev. and 2 -3 clicks of left aliron and I was having a ball... Well after about 3 min. , took a little to get past the first few min of jitters... Waiting for the unexpected...

The Dr-1 definetly flys different then my other planes. Nothing too drastic, but the turns are different and it made it all that much more fun to have something like this. Loops and rolls were very pradictable. Only three other people at the field and of course all stopped to watch. Can't wait till this Sunday to break it out for the crowd. Right before I went to the field I had it at the local Hobby shop and the old timmers were saying how hard it is to land and take off and even fly. Hope for light winds and great weather.

Yes, I greased the landings and they were as smooth as silk. No nose overs... Thank you flight gods...

What a great plane... I will have a ball with this one.

Thanks again to all who took the time to look up info for me and spent the time to help me with the set up.

WinterHawke

Congratulations, Bull-RCU, on a successful test-flight session . . .

You've already seen the tripe magic - it will always elicite comments - most who haven't flown one will be full of gloom and doom, but so long as you remember that it is a frisky little World War One fighter that abhors crosswind landings, your going to have plenty of fun this summer.

Caught your note on another thread - I too hope to do a little beagle dog hunting this summer - best of luck on your hunt!

Managed to get a few weekends in a row with my tripe in the air - first flight of the year was a thriller in very nasty crosswinds - there's nothing quite as terrifying as seeing a triplane heading towards the runway crabbing at about 40 degrees or so [X(] - got real lucky on the landing!! Next couple weekends were much better (and a whole lot more relaxing) in far less crosswinds than the first one - got my smile back[8D]

Enjoy the summer, and be careful in them there dogfights

'til later,