Good, that's what I was looking for when I started this thread: information from those more experienced. I didn't mean to imply the Avistar couldn't handle a heavier engine (how would I know?), and I'm glad to hear it can, because I might want to go that route with it later on after I get good at flying it stock. And I certainly didn't intend to start an argument with anybody or contradict what you were saying. I was just trying to clarify that Ralph was comparing his heavy Evolution engine to a much lighter non-BB OS engine like my LA or his FP. I like the way my Avistar flies with the 40LA as I learn to fly it better and learn about glow engines. Yes, I find I'm thinking of ways to get more power, but I like to take small steps and see what a plane will do as I make changes and learn things. I do some aerobatics with it as is, though I'm certainly not very accomplished at it yet. I also like to do some slow flying to just feel how the plane flies and enjoy the beauty of it. I'm glad to hear the Avistar is capable of handling more power to do more advanced aerobatics which I would like to be able to do someday, but for now I'm learning as I go and enjoying it very much.


I'm not so worried about weight other than I've always heard that with model airplanes lighter is better. Actually, the 2 Hitec HS-81's I put in the wing weigh 4g less than the Futaba S3003 they replaced. And I don't think it's unnecessary to do this since I am learning things and having fun doing so. And it does land slower and takeoff shorter with flaperons. I took off across the width of our field yesterday using the flaperons even with the low-powered 40LA. I'll admit there was a little headwind that helped. Plus, I had an 11x5 prop on it that seemed to give it better thrust for takeoff runs.


I'm sure I will get to the better engines in time, when I'm ready. I look forward to it.

And just so there's no doubts, I really like the Avistar. I bought it based on all the good comments I've read about it and it hasn't disappointed. I'm getting lots of comments from people on how well it flies and I'm enjoying every minute of everything I'm doing with it. It is a great airplane.

Wow i wonder what the Avistar would be like with the 18oz K&B .61 (1.8hp).

av8r1,
I guess there was a bit of misunderstanding then. Sorry I was a bit mouthy You'll love your avistar and most likely keep it in your hangar long after you have grown out of the need for a trainer.

Cogburn,
My Avistar has completely unlimited vertical with a TT .46 Pro. I don't think there is a need for a .61, but if you want to try it, go for it!

I had an Avistar RTF with an OS 40LA for about a year (RIP). It was my first RC plane. I flew it at the recommended 3 5/8" CG for the first four months. It took about an oz. or so of lead under the stab to get that CG. Nice, steady, and predictable but when I went inverted it took a lot of down to keep it level. Also rolls were kind of a roller coaster thang since I wasn't hip to using rudder and elevator when rolling. So, I started moving the CG back little by little until it was about 4 1/4" back. It was a little sensitive pitchwise but not too bad at all. I think by the time I got to that point it had almost 2 oz.of lead (maybe more. I can't recall exactly) under the stab. Anyway I really was working on aerobatics by then so the plane's flying characteristics suited me in that endeavor.

Toward the end of its life (a mid-air with an out of control yahoo) I put a mousse can pipe on the LA. That really brought it to life. Vertical was unbelievable! I was a little concerned the engine might destroy itself from too many rpm (13,200 with an APC 10x6) but fate intervined and impermanence staked its claim. I've never heard anything but high praise from anyone who ever flew one. I still miss it.

Good Luck !

Big Mike

That's ok. Sometimes I try to be funny and it comes across wrong. []

I do love my Avistar already and I think you're right about keeping it around for a long time. In fact, that's another reason I bought it, expecting that could happen. I've been told I could have bypassed the trainer and gone to something more advanced due to my electric flying, but I didn't want to miss out on the glow trainer experience and I'm glad I didn't.

I'm curious, did you have to do anything to strengthen the airframe of your Avistar to fly it the way you do? I've heard reports of people folding the wings on them by pushing them too hard. I've been very careful when pulling up out of loops, etc. with mine for this reason.

I don't know, but when I was shopping for my Avistar I ran into a guy at the field with a Hanger 9 Alpha that he had turned into a "souped-up trainer" as he called it. He had taken the dihedral out of the wing, converted it into a tail-dragger, and I think he said it had a Magnum .61 in it. What an awesome plane! And that was with a flat bottom wing. I think it's similar to the Avistar otherwise, but just a tad bigger. With it's semi-symmetrical wing, the Avistar should be even better.

Big Mike,

Thank you! That's almost the same experience I had with my Avistar RTF except that I haven't moved it back past 3-5/8 yet. That makes me feel a lot better that someone else had to add that much tail weight to get it to balance right. I've heard that taking the stock muffler baffle out can increase power. I don't kow how true that is, but I did it on my 40LA and it seemed to give it some more power and not that much more noise, but I can't be sure until I put it back. Less power will probably be a lot more noticeable than more power. Good report on the 40LA too, but I still think I'm going to go for a 46LA as soon as I find one that's not blue. Nothing against blue, but I just don't think it would fit in with the Avistar's great color scheme.

Hmm... maybe the mousse can pipe on the 46 would be something to try too.

The only thing I did to strengthen my avistar was to add some triangle stock under the hoizontal stabilizer, I'm not sure it was nescessary, but I was a newbie and a guy at my field suggested it. Personally, I think anyone who has had trouble with their wing folding either had a defective wing, or was just doing something ridiculous like going full throttle down and pulling out hard. I have done the ultimate wing-test maneuver; a blender, and the wing has held up fine. As long as you pull back on the throttle when exiting a loop, you can pull out pretty hard without hurting anything.

WoW! I am considering getting into R/C flying and talked with a couple of guys at a near by flying field last night. They mentioned getting an Avistar and from reading this whole thread I think that's what I'll do. Nice to read in on all the posts to get a little more educated first. Thanks

Go for it! I payed $350 for my RTF Avistar, I think tower now sells them for $270. That is an absolute steal for radio, engine, and awesome trainer. And, it is MUCH more complete than most ARFs. You can literally have the plane ready to fly in about 30min right from the box (plus battery charging).

Hello to the group

I added 2 ounces to my tail today and went flying.
This gave me a new CG of 3 1/4. I found the plane to be less stable in flight.
Keeping the wings level was a full time job at 3/4 throttle. But the plane floated good.

There was an 8 knot wind, but I've flowen in this much wind and had fun with it with the CG set at 2 1/2 to 2 3/4.

I made 3 touch and goes and 1 landing and left .
I flew 1 tank of gas and then left because the plane felt unsteady in the air.

I'll try again on a not so windy day.

Ralph

I think the instability was mostly because of the wind. I have moved my CG WAY back on the avistar and it always stays rock solid. 3 1/4 is the recommended starting CG for the Avistar. You would need to move it back much further than that to start making it unstable due to the CG. There is no wonder you have to land hot with the CG at 2 1/2, that is very far forward. Like I said, 3 1/4 is the starting point. You usually move back from there. How are you testing CG? Are you using the great planes CG Machine?

http://www.hobbico.com/techsupport/technotes.html

new avistar with a tower 46. added 4oz to tail . Flys great. Made into a tail dragger. The tower engine will let it climb straight up , out of sight. The tower is a lot of engine for $74. Stats easy by hand ,and idles great too.

Here's what I ended doing to my Avistar to make it more "perfect":

1. Glued the wing halves together with 30 minute epoxy. After about 50 flights the steel rod support for the wing worked itself loose to the point where it would flop up and down a bit. I also applied some epoxy putty to the wing rods to tighten up their fit.

2. Glued both tail sufaces to the fuselage after removing the covering around the contact areas. I did this at the same time I glued the wings together. The bolts holding the rudder to the fuselage kept needing to be tightened down every so often. I think Hobbico in trying to live up to their "No glue needed!" hype and their desire to market this plane as RTF weakened the plane somewhat.

3. Moved the CG back to 4 1/4".

4. Increased servo travel.

5. Added a mousse can pipe. This really transformed the plane. Vertical performance was unreal!

6. Another Avistar nut at our field took out all the dihedral in the wing and claimed it helped significantly in inverted flight. I dunno...

Big Mike

I learned to fly with an Avistar, and to this day I think they are the best plane to learn on. There also the best beater plane around. I've had several, and in the wind, their the greatest !!!
I don't know about the newer one's, but the 2002/2003 Avistars ROCK !!! And I don't remember adding any weight to any of mine, they all flew amazingly well. By the way, throw away that 40LA and install a Saito 56. You may need a little tail weight then, but you won't be sorry...... Dennis Flora

Big Mike,

I'm still flying my Avistar RTF pretty stock except for the recent replacement of the original .40 LA with a .46 LA. I know that's not much of an increase in power, but I was attracted to the ease of doing the swap. No balancing required since they weigh the same, no mount changing since they are the same size physically. In fact I think they are identical except that the .46 is bored out larger. It's supposed to have 20% more power than the .40, with no weight penalty. I just flew it today for the first time after breaking it in and it's a little more powerful, but it's not at its full potential yet since I'm still running it very rich for a few flights according to the break-in recommendation and I haven't taken the muffler baffle out yet. But even so, it seems to have quite a bit more power than the .40 LA which is well broken-in with over 50 flights on it and has had many props tried on it to find the ones with the best performance. I like the APC 10x7 and 11x6 on it. Once I see what the .46 LA will do, maybe I'll go for a ball bearing engine and really crank it up. I've been very happy with the .40 LA and have even had comments from more experienced fliers on how powerful it is for such a quiet engine. And that's with the baffle removed.

Everything has its trade-offs and the RTF construction of the Avistar is no exception. I'm still flying it with the original wing-joining and tail-mounting configuration. I know it's not as strong, but I keep a close eye on it and do what I can to keep it as strong as possible, like putting CA in the wing straps' screw holes to keep them from coming loose, which has worked very well. The RTF setup has had some benefits for me too, like a few weekends ago when I traveled quite a distance to visit relatives who had never seen me fly. I found out there was a flying field near there and got permission from that club to fly there when I visited. I put the Avistar back in its original box and put it in the trunk of the car with our luggage. It only took a few minutes to take apart and put back together. It makes travel with the plane very easy. I probably will lose that benefit if I put a more powerful engine on it and start pushing the airframe harder, but it's nice right now to be able to do that. Oh, and those rudder bolts are a real handy place to put the lead weight on the tail. I just cut a strip of stick-on lead to the right length, drilled a couple of holes in it to match the bolts and mounted it under the existing washers and nuts. Works great. I wish I could take credit for the idea, but it was suggested to me by a veteran flier at my club.

I'm starting to think about what my next plane will be, something more advanced, but I hope to be flying the Avistar for a long, long time. It is a great flying airplane.

Dennis,

They still rock. I got mine just under two months ago.

I learned to fly with electrics long before I got the Avistar, but I still love flying it.

Now that's something I didn't think of. I love the sound of 4-strokes. Having one on the Avistar would be very cool. I wouldn't throw that 40LA away though, it's a good engine.

Did you actually have a Saito 56 on an Avistar?

I just up graded from my Avistar to the Dragon 40 by 456 MB.
There is a artical written about it here on R/C univ.

The plane flys great not as fast as the Avistar with a 46 on it but more advanced in flight.
It may be the perfect 2nd plane.

I purchased mine at R/C Country in Sacramento for $140.00 and put my electronics out of my Aviastar in it.

Just a thought.

Ralph

The "Avistar Nut" I wrote about that removed the dihedral from his wing also put an OS 52 FS in his latest incarnation of the Avistar (I think he has had at least four of them). That was really a nice combo. Great midrange power and nice and quiet. In my opinion that's the nicest all around Avistar set up I've seen although quite a bit of tail weight had to be added to get a rearward acrobatic CG.

I was really tempted to get another Avistar when mine met its untimely death but decided to move forward to an even more challenging kind of plane and ended up buying a recycled third hand Sig Cap 231EX from a fellow club member for a really cheap price. A HUGE step, I know, but after a bunch of mishaps endured by the plane I can now handle it pretty well and it is my new favorite plane. The Cap has a YS140DZ and mostly digital Hitec servos. Awesome in every way! I have about $800 tied up in it. I bought the engine from an overseas source for a super low price about a year ago.

Anyway, I still love watching the Avistars when guys bring them out to the field.