Does anyone know what happened to vanmans thread on the Powerline 3D edge 540?

Well I just found out that this thread was deleted because the reviewer of this product (vanman) was also a hobby shop owner.

I find this action a pretty sorry one at that. There was no need in deleting this thread. I have read many of vanmans "reviews" and made decisions on particular airframes based on his findings and found them to be right on target. In the many posts I have read of his, including the one deleted, not once was there any influence on his part for some one to "buy his product from him". After all he isnt the manufacturer!! All we got was the bare bones truth about what we were reading about. Something we as modelers deserve but rarely get any more.

Since the Big Time Reviewers for magazines & web sites get there products for free we have to take what is written with a grain of salt. Vanman may be a hobby shop owner but he dosent write for any publication & for sure didnt get the product for free - maybe wholesale but definatly not free.

I would like to ask the Administrator who deleted this thread to read vanmans "reviews" and get the picture. Not one of them contains any sort of advertising but simply the products used & the out come.

If you delete his it would only be fair to delete EVERY post that contains the mention of ANY product to include APC Dubro Great Planes etc. What would be the use of this site then anyway???

I support vanman's reviews because thats all they were - not advertisements! If anyone else out there enjoyed his posts & got some good out of them as I did please let it be known

all reviews should be thrown in a hole with dave brown all they want everybody that has done a review is the free plane. heck send me some vmars and I'll review them right on ebay. atleast get a good pilot to fly it for the vids fake tip stalls don't count for wow factor. off my off brand vent stool[:'(]

For those that get there Review products for free I agree with you but for those of us that dont theres nothing wrong with giving the honest opinion of what you think of it to benifit the public whether you own a hobby shop or not. Just as you just did with your experience with Vmar.

If you read vanmans other posts there are a few products that he may have sold in his shop but planely expressed his dislike AND why. Does that sound like a hobby shop owner trying to sell something on RCU. As a matter of fact he makes no mention of owning a shop in his product reviews.

How do you know he didn't get that product for free? If he did a review for RCU, I'm pretty sure he got it for free.

I don't know to which thread you're referring but if they removed it because he's a hobby shop owner, then I'm assuming they're worried about a conflict of interest.

Whether it could or did happen in this case is irrevelant. The simple fact that the admins need to enforce rules in a broader scope. I remember a case where they recently closed/ deleted a thread because someone was showing the build up of a plane that he intended to sell. That makes him commercial in the broad sense. Maybe not in his case, but I doubt the admins have time to take these things in a case by case basis.

I was keeping up with the thread because I have an interest in the plane. I DID feel like I was being tricked a little when he made the comment about "seeing it at his local hobby shop" That's just outright misleading and it paints a picture of someone who has nothing to gain from people buying the plane. I don't like being misled. Why would he just not admit to being the hobby shop owner before he was challenged?
I think another reason for it being deleted is because of all the stink that went on in the pro bro forum which ultimately led to the deletion on the ENTIRE pro bro forum. I think the admin want to paint the picture of impartiality.

I also find his dogmatic defense of the pacific aeromodelers edge a little suspect. When ever ANYTHING less than positive was posted in that thread, he would immediately follow up with how great the plane was. I have the plane and it's OK, but nothing special. There is a link to the pa edge thread from pacific aeromodelers website. This led me to believe that this was a free plane for review.
I'm just looking at the whole thing with an open mind.

The said person did not do the "review" for RCU but as a simple post for the benifit of us modlers. He himself didnt mention he was a shop owner but some one else. As I stated there was no mention of buy this from me or anything of that nature. I personally enjoyed getting the truth from his "reviews"/posts on the A.W. Edge & the Pacific Edge and made a decision based on his info of the 2 as to which to purchase. With the info he provided I feel he helped me make a good decision and was able to set the plane to my liking based on his facts. Not once in me questioning him on the other 2 airframes did he try to sell me anything or make mention he owned a shop just gave good free advise.

I understand that the rules have to be followed but lets do just that. If you check out vanmans posts on the AW Edge & the PA Edge you will see that they are just bare facts with no commercial intent just as the deleted thread I was enjoying was. Here is one of the previous posts.

See what you think

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_12...%2Cedge/tm.htm

I think that our constant criticisim on planes, engines etc is more effective than any review

OK what i meant was the people that rate the plane just because it was free and they get to sell it to a club member from another club if it don't fall apart before the engine starts you but letting the people that make or import the plane thats not a review thats a sales flyer I'm brutality honest with my posts on a product i yell at my fuel if it don't match my profiles color scheme but no reviews would be better than the sales pitches i have read for a while no American made planes and now doomed reviews i have never bought nothing i have been 100% happy with but things are as perfect as they are going to be i just hope they stay that way and not get worse

TO EVERYBODY THAT HAS MADE A HONEST REVIEW I THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY THAT MADE A FALSE REVIEW I HOPE YOU DROP YOUR CA ON IT

from the thread he sure don't push the plane sounds like what i would say about it no tube is aggravating i hate hearing balsa crunch when i put the wings on

It would appear from what I'm reading above that the poster has the ability to sell an unlimited quantity of the very plane he was reviewing. Whether he mentioned that he sold it or not doesn't matter. If you drive demand for a product hobbyists will seek it out and that could result in incremental sales for his shop. This equates to advertising. If he did not sell the plane then he could do an impartial review and we would gladly allow it.

As far as reviewers getting planes for free that argument doesn't hold water. Reviewers sometimes get planes for free and other times not. Even if they do ask them how many $100's or $1000's they spend on radio equipment and motors to get it in the air. Then at the end of the day your lucky if you can sell it for 70 cents on the dollar which basically covers your cost for what you invested in radio/engine to finish the thing. Furthermore a reviewer does not have an unlimited amount of product to sell. Matter of fact they already got the plane so whatever they say after that doesn't matter since product is in hand. So if you take this to the next extreme for arguments sake and Joe Writer says that XYZ arf is the best plane ever made in history then what does he truly gain from that? He can't sell 100's of them like a hobby store owner can. At best he can sell his and hope to recoup what he spent to finish the plane.

I'm gonna add my .02 to this discussion. I do know a person who does reviews for two mags and he will tell you (me) that there is a certain amount of pressure to "not" be too negative when reviewing a plane. I get the feeling that he can't be brutally honest so to speak. Now as for the one who wrote the review that we're discussing, I feel that he wasn't totally honest with us until it was brought out that he was a shop owner. He definatley made it sound as if he was just cruising the local hobby shop and spoted the plane and bought it. At least thats how it looked to me. Now whether or not his review was biased I can't say, but RCadmin's points are well taken. I would have to agree with him as to his definition of advertising.

I think we all do take reviews with a grain of salt. Just look at every planes that gets ragged on here. Yet every review of those same planes will have only some negative comment about the "covering was wrinkled, or some hardware missing, something like that. And oh yeah,, the instruction booklet wasn't very clear.

All being said could be true but it boils down to others & myself enjoyed the detailed info we were getting. I found it to be right on target in building a particular plane he wrote about. If you didnt enjoy it thats fine dont read it.

All I want is the info. I live 1000 miles give or take so its not like me or most of you will be driving down to his shop to pick anything up.

I guess if you want advertising & commercialism go to RCU if you want to get just plane ole detailed step by step info go ????

To be fair in the rules every post containing a product that was bought at the LHS needs to be deleted. After all - The LHS dont advertise here & they might be getting free advertisement or we might be driven to go there if we saw it here.

No hard feelings toward anyone. I just hated to see a post I was looking forward to keeping up with be deleted over the root of all evil.

but what gets me is sending the reviews in to let the importers fix it the way they want it. i sad after i read that the first time. and why has a reviewers wing never blow off .

Are you kidding me? I delete a review which is basically a cloaked advertisement from what I can tell and then you say "if you want advertising & commercialism go to RCU". Please....

He's talking about your product reviews Marc.

Jim

As I said before, I was enjoying the step by step info he was providing about the plane - you viewed it as cloaked up advertising.

I viewed it from an informational stand point - you viewed it from a commercial stand point. Call it what you will.

It should be known that once you make a living in this hobby your posts are subject to a completely different set of rules that any normal member is NOT subject to. Once you have financial gain at stake the commercial posting rules are in effect like it was for this gentleman.

I do apologize to you for this policy interfering with something you were reading here but the rules are in place for many reasons which ultimately benefit the members, RCU and advertisers here and are necessary. These rules have served us well for years and we will stick by them even though we know there will be times where this may be undesirable to certain members.

What if you just pretend for that review that you might not make any money? Or if you pinky swear that you won't take any orders for someone who saw your review?

what about to a private party i used to sell spads a bunch of them and other stuff.if you advertise use invisible keyboards keeps everybody happy

Then you write...........

You sound like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Which is it, you think reveiwers who stand to profit suck yet you liked this guys reviews? Would you have been upset if you disagreed with his opinions? I bet you would be applauding Marc if that were the case. You can't have it both ways.

You are right which is why he ships as tower hobbies and horizon does.