My 7 year old son who's now flying solo crashed his Tutor 40 on Sat, and was absolutely devastated - basically, his flying is outstanding (lands better than me), and I was filming him for Mum, so couldn't see all of the crash, but he was doing a roll, and with the Tutor it takes quite a bit of down elevator, and has a very slow roll rate. He's done them before, but this time he was low down, and for some reason put in down elevator first - end of story and plane.

I was planning on getting him something more lively anyway (he flies his combat wing unbelievably, and so far, he's knocked me out of the sky, but I have yet to hit him !!), so now I have a choice.

I want to get him back in the air for this weekend again (I know, I've got some late nights ahead of me !!), and I have a couple of pre-requisites - 1) got to take an Irvine 46 MKIII, 2) no nasty vices (like tip stalling) 3) needs to be fun, and able to roll well (no elevator needed)

He's going for his BMFA A test fairly soon (he's well on top of all the safety rules, plane checks etc.), so was thinking of a Ready2 as I know they're tuff as nails. Having said that, I guess it's going to be a bit slower than the Tutor as it's a heavier plane - Anyone flown both of these ? I want a plane that will roll without needing any elevator (although appreciate it won't look perfect), as this will now be a barrier for him, and I want to boost his confidence again.

The other plane on my mind was the Black Horse Super Air - I've read the stories on RCU, and it looks like the latter ones that are laser cut are fine.

At the end of the day, I don't want to spend a fortune, appreciate he has to get the hang of other control movements in rolls, but he is only 7, and if anything his crash was my fault - It was only his 3rd day of solo flight, and I was filming him, so couldn't gauge height - that coupled with me doing low level rolls earlier didn't help.

Can anyone contrast these 3 planes ?

Many thanks :-)

I would say yes the BH is cheap in the UK and nice to fly but to be honest, go for a WM T34 or Super Sport at the least. Super Sport can be a fast acrobatic plane if you think your son can handle it, its easy to land, not much faster than the BH. T34 is decently acrobatic only but can be a gentle low wing plane when you need it to be one.

Is there any plane that rolls without any elevator needed? Go for the Super Sport!

Thanks - will take a look at those.

When I say roll without elevator, I know for a smooth roll you need rudder and elevator, but there are plenty of planes around that roll so quickly you can get away with just aileron, although you abviously lose height, but it's not bad, ie. my Swallow 90 & Limbo Dancer roll quick enough that you can just use aileron if you're feeling lazy.

Guy at our club has got a Super Sport, although I've never flown it, but he always comes in quick, so I'd assumed that's what it needed - have you flown one of these yourself ?

The Swallow is nice? Darn ... just sold mine NIB. I have not flown the Super Sport but seen many fly, it sometimes comes in fast but seen some that is of decent speed and not like a bat out of hell. I have flown the T34 and its nice ... Super Sport does nice knife edges too. I guess the guy at your field does not flare enough for it to come in slow.

Oh yes ... talking about BH ... go for the SU31, make sure its the laser cut one, brilliant plane to fly! Takes off and lands easy!!! I have had 2 and No. 3 will be built soon. Its slighty heavy so its not a speed king with a 46 2C but will do very nice aerobatics. This is still one of my favourite planes. Last one I had easily 50 flights before giving it to a friend.

Was looking at SU31 & CAP32, but I know the have a tendancy to drop a wing, although not bad - just not sure my son's upto that yet. Trying to get something that has no vices at all, and will go nice and slow for landings - our strip's not too long anyway, so keeps it easier if it will come in slow.

I'm leaning towards the Ready 2 still as I know that being all plastic, they're really tough, which will help, and from what I've ready, the aerodynamics are so good that it overcomes the weight, so still can go fairly slow, but really want to hear from someone who's flown both the Tutor 40 and Ready 2 to compare them.

Thanks

Dorg

Had a Tutor 40 all summer ...great trainer ...we, Peters 11, bought a Ripmax " Skymax 40 " to run alongside this Tutor ...brilliant ..ideal next step along from the basic trainer that the Tutor was ....you can pick the Skymax up for £50 if you shop around...just sold them both at the end of this season & now he's got a Kyosho J-3 Cub to build , wouldnt go the Cap or Sukhoi route just yet, these youngsters can be a bit reckless , the Ready 2 is a bit heavy & can be tricky to repair

The SU31 and CAP from BH do not have the tendency to tip stall ... when I say gentle its just a little more than a trainer. My SU31 lands and takes off just a little faster than the WM T34.

I built and am teaching a new flyer on the Ready 2, it really is tough but the plane is a pain in the arse to build, instructions are not that clear so you must do a many dry fittings and look at the photos very carefully for the orientation of parts. Mine was built using CA only with a bit of epoxy to join wings. The real pain is the nose wheel steering, trying to get the horn in and then trying to get the linkage done.

As for its flyability its one of the best trainers I have flown! Beats the RCM trainer and even the BH Excel 2000. She can fly pretty fast on full throttle. Landings are gentle and she is not floaty or bouncy.

How tough is she? I have been teaching this 50+ yr old guy for a month and he is a little slow, can take off but can't fly in squares. Just on Sunday I told him to fly higher and not turn so hard. He did not wanna listen so he started to bank hard when he was low. The plane crashed from about 50' min. It landed in some tall grass ... damage was only the wings being pulled out, the bolt holding it was ripped out of its bracket, it can be fixed with some CA or epoxy. If it were a normal trainer the wings would have broken and perhaps the back portion of the fuse and firewall. The plastic could absorb the impact, of course the thick tall elephant type grass helped too.

Thanks Guys

iIANci - what is the roll rate of the Ready2 like (ie. how may rolls per seconds, or seconds per roll !!)

Lord Lucan - Agree the Tutor was a great trainer, and almost tempted to get another one, apart from phsycologically, my son's a bit put off especially with the roll - as a guess I would say it takes about 3 seconds for a complete roll, although I may have been able to get a bit more mechanical travel, but won't ever know now :-)

Was the roll of the Skymax much quicker than the Tutor ?

Dude ... lousy roll rate ... the ailerons will not deflect that much. More than enough for learning for sure but I tried to roll it and did not like it. Again, I always fly on pretty hight rates, I love to fly slow and roll fast ... I think the Ready will probably take 3-4 secs to roll too.

......Yep ...certainly was ...first time up with the thing i set off with the dual rates on high..gulp....palpatations.
I did remove the awfull wood bearers though, put a new 1/4 ply firewall in on top of the other & two 1/32 ply sides to cover where the bearers had been to neaten things up plus an O.S. mount.
The Skymax was great, it realy was ...they were selling them at the Nats for £35..!!

We nearly bought another Tutor too ...but wanted a change ....So grabbed a Thunder Tiger MK II Trainer for the odd winter w/end and next years lazy days

couple of pics..

Thanks - I will keep an eye out for one of them - looks pretty good (trike undercarriage will be good at our field), and at that price you can't go wrong.

Well, I took my son shopping last night and we ended up with a Ready2 - was a combination of what he liked the look of, and what they had in stock. Also called our club examiner/instructor, and he used to teach on these all the time in Corfu, and thought they were really good too, so that finalised it. My son actually wanted something stable too, above the ability to roll, as he's focused on his A test (far too sensible for me !!). Total cost about £150 by the time I bought new servos, RX, crystal & switch !! - I could have got away with most of it, but there were some signs of damage, so even though it all works, I'm not taking any chances. The Ready2 itself was actually quite cheap - £68

Also decided that I'll get his next plane before he needs it to give me time to build it, and also just in case :-)

Now all I have to do is build the Ready2 !! - looks to be interesting to say the least (but I knew that from your comments tIANci,, so at least it wasn't a shock), but I'll get there. May give you a shout if I need some building tips

Thanks for all the help/advice guys - appreciate it.

Cheers

All,

Just an update on the Ready2 as she went out for her maiden flight this weekend.

My son was really nervous at first (as to be expected with a 7 year old after his first crash), and we kept him on the buddy box for the day, just to allow him to get used to the plane and get back into it again.

The plane flies like a dream - found the roll rate to be really good - about 1 per second with the throws slightly more than the recommended, although there's still more travel.

After the first tank, my son just wouldn't get back into it - bit like Top Gun !!, and he was getting cold, so we both ran around the field to warm up, and from then on he was fine - landings were excellent, although he did clip this mound of earth one side of our field as he had to land width ways which is narrower anyway, and he was cutting it fine, and just clipped, sending into a ditch the other side - broken prop that's all, so proves the tuffness.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, and this plane feels like a good step up from a Tutor 40 - takes off from the ground in much less space with the same engine, flies much quicker, and can out manouver the Tutor 40 - Highly recommended !!


Cheers

Dorqand - good to hear that you enjoy the plane! So that is considered a good roll rate for trainers? Hmmm ... I really skipped that bit when I started flying again after a 20 year hiatus. The plane is a good plane to fly huh? Hehehee ... I am glad you enjoyed it. She can fly fast right? Glad to see that you love its tuffness.

Well, the only other trainer I've flown is the Tutor 40, and it rolls much quicker than that. The Ready2 rolls fast enough that you can get away without using elevator, although you obviously lose a bit of height - couldn't do that with the Tutor40. She definitely flies fast than the Tutor too - all in all it seems a good step up from the Tutor, and will be a good bridge between that a low wing for him.

I was surprised just how slow it would fly too - you would think that with that weight it wouldn't glide to well, but it seems to.

If I were to be super critical, the only thing I would change would be the undercarriage, for something a bit wider - it's just a bit too twitchy on the ground, and although our field is fairly smooth for grass, it's still a bit more like a tail dragger in the way that it doesn't track so well, and you obviously have to turn fairly slowly at speed to avoid it tipping.