hi, i would like to know which Pitts flies better

Hi vasek-I started out with an early Cermark Pitts, put a YS 120 on it, flew it for three seasons, then bought a GP when they came out and flew that for a season with a Moki 210 before going back to a new version Cermark ( see my RCU review) also with a YS 120. Both designs would do anything in the book, but IMHO the Cermark, designed by Dave Patrick, is a better flyer. The key to performance is wing loading; the bipes are even more sensitive to excess weight than monoplanes are, so keep 'em light and don't overpower them and either one will fly quite nicely. I couldn't help getting the impression that the GP Pitts was rushed into production before all the bugs were worked out, while the Cermark was extensively redesigned over the original after about four years. I had lots of trouble trying to three-point the GP's landings because the main gear is too short, which prevents making full-stall landings that don't bounce down the runway. The GP is a bigger, more impressive airplane, but the Cermark is very easy to take-off and land. Neither airplane exibited a tendency to snap on approach or other nasty surprizes. Mine weighed 11-1/4 and 15 lbs respectively with a little firewall reinforcement on each. I have a GMC mini-box-on-wheels van, and either airplane will go in the back fully assembled. Whether you can carry either in or out of the house like that could be another story. Jim

I agree with ALMOST everything mitch said. I had the Cermark with a Saito 1.80 and my first GP had a Taurus 52 and my cuttent GP has a ZDZ 60. The GP does bounce a little on landing (I have to order the TNT replacement gear) but my biggest concern is wheather you want to fly glow or gas-with the choices being simple after that decision. The good news is that you are a winner either way.

PS--I own 3 giant scale planes and 2 of them are Pitts. One GP and the other Miles Reed Challenger. ILOVEAPITTS

I've had both planes lost the Cermark to a midair in its second season and still wish I had it. I SOLD the GP after the first test flights. The Cermark shines, while the GP is a dog, but hey - that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

I flew the original vesion Cermark for four seasons before selling it and, after a number of mods, it flew great with a Satio 180. At a slightly smaller size than the GP, i didn't need to remove the wings to store or transport it and liked that also. It is truely a very capable design. I miss mine.

thanks to all for their input,
Jim after reading your post i am leaning towards the Cermark, thanks
V.

I bought the greatplanes pitts and I am sorry I did, it is junk from the monocoat to the landing gear all junk , poor construction. mismatched colors , holes in the wrong spots for mounting brackets. all around poor quality plane.

I am only posting this because this was active just recently. I am not trying to influence you one way or the other because I have not dealt with Cermark. I only thought you might want to see it before making your selection.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Cerm...2900033/tm.htm

As hookedonrc stated, Cermark customer service has some big problems, but they are not alone. Personally, I never needed anything from them after the purchase, so I can't comment either way. I did need some replacement strut brackets from GP that I called them twice on, and they ignored me. Moral: don't expect much from anyone, and be pleasantly surprised sometimes. Jim

I have a LHS in Ky. I just got a Cermark Pitts in the store the other day, and i always look at them before putting it out for sale. I found that it had a broken wing tip on the lower wing. I called Cermark and told them about the wing. They asked that I send the broken part back (i will cut the wing tip off) and that a new one will be shipped today. All i can say is that for me they have always been super with me. Dennis

FOR THOSE THAT ARE INTERESTED,
The Cermark Pitts is the smoothest flying ARF biplane(of that size)on the market right now. I have a old version that i have been flying since the plane came out 5-7 years ago and it is on its third YS 120. YEAH, THE LHS GUY LOVES US IN THE CLUB THAT RUN THOSE YS ENGINES CAUSE HE KNOWS THAT WE ARE GOING TO BURN THE FUEL, ALOT OF FUEL. Just recovered the plane and got a few flights on it and it flies just as it did before:AWESOME!!!!!!!!
I also have the newer version (blue and white color scheme), powered with a YS 120 as well. It flies just as good as the older version, if not better. Cermark done a wonderful job redesigning the newer version of the pitts. The cabanes have been changed from hardwood to aluminum and the n-struts have been modified to resemble those on a real pitts, and they way they install is absolutely cool. I believe the newer version is a little lighter even though you use 2 more servos, or in my situation, i use 3 extra servos: 4 on the ailerons, 2 on the elevator halves, 1 rudder set up on pull-pull and 1 throttle. As long as Cermark keeps producing them, i will keep a couple of them in my hangar.
As far as the GREAT PLANES PITTS is concerned, owned it as well powered by a BME 50, beautiful lines on that airplane and constructed very well and flew pretty decent, but kept having brackets that hold the top wing on to break!!!! GREAT PLANES sent me packages of replacement brackets 3 or 4 times and said that they were made of a different type of metal that was stronger. OK, i believed them and on the 4th or 5th flight the top wing decided to come off. Called GREAT PLANES and they said to send the remains in to them and they would look at it for possible replacement. GOOD NEWS, they did replace it and i will never own another one until the bracket situation is fixed. GREAT PLANES customer service is exceptional when it comes to taking care of a problem. I think they know they had a problem with the bracket issue and are trying to make it right with anyone who had a problem with them.
I have dealt with CERMARK on 3 or 4 issues with the pitts they sell and have never had a problem with getting it resolved. So what if you have to send a part back to them and get it replaced. IT IS IN HOW YOU SPEAK WITH SOMEONE TO GET A PROBLEM TAKEN CARE OF. Hopefully there is a pic of the two CERMARK Pitts that are in my hangar below.
For a club with 60 plus members, we have 9 or 10 of these PITTS in our club.

just my thought,
pittsman

thanks again for all the info,

pittsman, i like the black/ yellow scheme on your Pitts! is that your job or it came lake that?

vasek,
this is the first version of the Cermark Pitts that came out some years ago. It came from the factory in the classic red/white color scheme. I flew it for 5 or 6 years and finally decided to recover it like a real Pitts that I went for a ride in last year. THE RIDE IN A
REAL PITTS WITH SOMEONE THAT KNOWS HOW TO DO ALL THE TRICKS IN THE BOOK IS WELL WORTH IT. Here are some more pics of the old pitts with the new colors.
thanks
pittsman

for what it is worth I have the older Cermark Pitts I bought used and have flown two years with a Saito 1.80 and it is a lot of fun to fly and behaves very well on the ground.

I JUST GOT THE GP PITTS TODAY AND I MUST SAY IT IS AN IMPRESSIVE ARF.THE ONE GUY WHO RIPPED ON IT IN EVERY WAY MUST BE ON DRUGS.THE COVERING IS REALLY NICE AND THE QUALITY IS FIRST CLASS.I HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT TOGETHER AND FLOWN IT YET BUT KNOW SEVERAL GUYS WHO HAVE THEM AND LOVE FLYING THEM.JUST MY TWO CENTS.

This is to Gjm. that guy your talking about is a friend of mine and I sold him that plane. Everything he stated is true. I was the one that got him a replacement from GP. This forum is meant to be for information not for some people to rip on others. If your plane, is good state that fact and leave your options out. Your statment is not worth 2 cents. Dennis

That guy was a friend of yours and you sold him a POS like that. I thought you inspected every plane before you sold it. You should have sent the plane back before you sold it.
Bob

If you will re-read the post, his problem was with bracket problems that hold the wing in place. He liked the plane and the way it was built. He had very good things to say about the way GP worked with him. So Bob don't start making trouble, some day you may need me to fix something for you. Dennis

And for your information Bob that Pitts I had in the store with the broken wing was sold to Pittsman and three days later the new came in from Cermark FREE.

Hey Bob,
The issue with the GP PITTS is in the 2 90 degree brackets that butt up to one another and look like a ( T ). I had problems with these brackets breaking every few flights. Heck, I had alot of cash in the plane and did not want to see the top wing come off and watch it dump in like it did. The GP PITTS is not a POS, just some of the hardware was not up to standards for a plane that size. I had a brand new BME 50 on the front of my GP PITTS and it pulled the fire out of it. Back to the bracket issue, the first ones looked like they were bent in a press and then chrome plated. All of the replacement brackets that were sent to me, a total of 3-4 sets were chrome plated. The last set that GP sent me looked like a much better steel and were not all cool and shiny-- so what, I wanted to fly my PITTS and I did. On the 4th or 5th flight with the new brackets that the customer service at GP sent me and said were the new and improved ones, hey, my top wing came off in flight and was a really impressive crash. Upset, yeah a little, did not figure that they at GP would do anything about it, so it sat in my shop for 6 months and Dennis at the LHS asked me one day if they had done anything about it? I told him that the carcas was still in a corner in my shop. He called GP and got me a call tag on the plane boxed up and i sent it off to them myself. 7 days later, a brand new GP PITTS came in UPS to the automotive shop that i work at. I was very surprised that they did anything at all. Thanks GP, but until that little bracket issue is fixed, I will continue flying the 2 CERMARK PITTS that i own and fly every weekend, whether I fly at our club field or at fun flys or scale events within 4 of the states surrounding KENTUCKY. Yes, I have competed in scale events (fun scale) with that little 1/4 scale PITTS and done pretty well with it. I have 4 scale events that i will be flying one of them in over the next couple of months. And as far as the LHS guy is concerned, he went out on his own to call GREAT PLANES.

IF THAT IS NOT SERVICE AFTER THE SALE, I DONT KNOW WHAT IS. HE COULD HAVE JUST TOLD ME HE WAS SORRY THAT IT HAPPENED AND SOLD ME SOMETHING ELSE, BUT HE IS A GOOD GUY TO WORK WITH AND GLAD TO HAVE HIM AS A FRIEND!!

THANKS DENNIS AT DAD'S TOYS

Bob, if you are ever in KY on a beautiful weekend, stop by and hang out with us, bring something to fly, we all have an awesome time. Below is a bunch of satisfied CERMARK PITTS OWNERS.
thanks,
Eric
aka pittsman


vasek, you may like this as well.