I get flutter on the ailerons of my Hobbico Superstar 60, the right one is the loosest so it flutters most but the left is a little loose too, but i want to fix both to make sure i don't get flutter again. I asked for some advice on how to fix it from some members in my club and i really haven't gotten a very good answer and i was hoping someone here would be able to help me if they were familiar with this plane or just a general fix. It's a trainer and they all probably have close to the same setup, but if you need a picture to get an idea of what it looks like i could post one. Thanks
-Erik

Are the holes in your servo arms are too large?

nope, but i considered that too
-Erik

What are you calling flutter? When your plane is sitting in front of you on the ground, do the ailerons have play (capable of movement without the servo arm moving)?

Are you using clevis's or z-bends? Are the clevis's snug to the pushrod? some clevis's are slightly larger than the pushrod, and therefore have a bit of slop.

Which servo are you using? How long is the servo arm as compared to the horn attached to the surface? The horn and the arm should be approximately the same length.

That's all I can think of....

Do you have a lot of gap between the control surface and the trailing edge of the wing? You might try sealing the gaps with packaging tape on the bottom. Deflect the surface all the way up, then install the tape that way it won't bind up.

Also sounds like above mentioned, too much slope in your setup or your servos gears are stripped.

yes, they are capable of moving without the servo arm moving. i can hear it flutter in the air occasionally if i go too fast and then the guys on the ground tell me to land. so i land and they look at it and say the right aileron is loose. it's not extremely loose tho but it's enough. i just checked it again and it looks like the hole in the thingy attached to the clevis on the right one is too big so steve was on the right track. so that is partly why the right one is loose but it looks like the left one has tight connections and it still moves. z bend on the servo and clevis on the other end. the servo is the one that came with the radio, i got the JR 421EX and it came with 4 standard NES 517 servos so they say. no gap in the surface, i did seal the gap on my edge 540t from aeroworks like that a while ago. hopefully that answered most of the questions, but if not the picture might help too.
-Erik

oh, the holes in the aileron is from when a guy said i should cut out some and then "inject" some epoxy in there if the rod is moving. i don't think i did it right so that didn't really work. a guy at my club did tell me that a lot of ARFs like this have flutter problems with the ailerons.
-Erik

Please take with a grain of salt the comments from folks saying "alot of arfs" have flutter. Arfs vary in design, and vary in the amount of knowledge the assembler has, the servos installed, etc.

I've built 11 arfs so far, including the DP Extra (supposedly infamous for flutter) and I have yet to experience flutter in my airplanes...Many reasons might exist for that, but there are many other folks who never experience flutter...


To the issue:

The z-bends I was initially referring to was the possibility that you used a z-bend to connect the pushrod to the horn....But it looks like you used clevis's.

As for z-bends in the middle of a wire, you get more support from servos if bends are less than a 90 dagree angle....Thus, if you need two angles to do something linearly, consider two 45 degree angles instead...thus a gentle slope rather than two harsh angles...

Fix the clevis/horn problem...Make them fit correctly...you don't want the surface moving unless the servo pushes it or pulls it...

Can't recall if you said you sealed the gaps on this plane....

Is the plane overpowered?

Cheers!

Many aileron torque rods are too soft and flex allowing the surafce to flutter.

No amount of gap sealing or removal of slop will fix the flutter problem on this one boys.
I redid one of these for a friend and the tourqe rods are just stuck in the balsa aileron stock.
If you are getting flutter and the rods are busting thru like in the Picture better take a trash bag with next time you fly it without fixing it first!



Den

The photo shows that the aileron clevises have been screwed down towards the hinge line quite a ways. As the clevises are moved towards the hinge line the servo's mechanical advantage decreases exponentially, which increases the chance of flutter. Also, as the clevis moves closer to the hinge line any slop in the linkage or servo gears is magnified, again increasing the chance of flutter. My suggestion would be to move the clevises as far out from the hinge line as possable (while keeping them each the same distance from the hinge line). You may still have other problems that need to be addressed, but I am sure that my suggestion will help. Many modelers move a clevis closer to the hinge line of a control surface to increase the travel of that surface. The correct way to increase control surface travel is to move the linkage rod further out on the servo arm or wheel. If the rod is already at the outer limit of the arm you should get a longer arm.
Rixter

Scrap all them torque rods and put dual aileron servos in. One in each wing half.

I know its a lot of work, and a bit extreme, but you won't ever have flutter problems again.

Here's how I make linkages:

Get a 2-56 or 4-40 rod thats threaded on one end only. Buy a tap and die for that size rod. Get some Sullivan clevis' for the rod your using.

Now, install the horns and put a clevis on the threaded end of the rod. Install the clevis and rod assembly on the servo horn. Next, put your other clevis on the control horn. You can now "eyeball" the length of rod that you'll need for the complete linkage setup. Cut the rod off at the right length with a pair of sidecutter pliers. Use your die too cut threads on the rod and assemble the whole unit for a slop free linkage. Make sure that you use back-up nuts on the rods and run the nuts down onto the clevis. USE LOCTITE!!!!!!!!!! on the threads. The nut keeps the assembly from rotating and coming out of one of your clevis'.

I've seen this setup work flawlessly on many planes. The only time you'll have problems with it is if they get too long and start too flex- or: if you don't use LOCTITE on the nuts.

I hate torquerods. They are always sloppy and they don't last long before they rip out of the wood. Those torque rods on the ARF are great for flaps- if you don't need the flaps all the time, but for ailerons- where you use them almost constantly- they suck.

Hope this helps

that's what i meant about these arf's having flutter problems, the torque rods getting loose, cuz i know there are supposedly others with problems but only with certain few. ok, here's what i'm going to do, i'm going to try a lot of the suggestions posted here and if they don't work i'll try the dual servos, and if something happens to that somehow, i'll just get a new wing and start over. torque rods suck!
-Erik

You should save yourself alot of trouble and just go straight for the dual aileron servos. I have seen this problem in arfs and kits alike, and the usual contributing factor is substandard wood and clevises too close to the hinge line. Once you get flutter caused by this combo, the wood around the torque rods is ruined, and there is not much you can do without performing major surgery. Since you have an elaborate procedure ahead of you, why not go for the one which pays the most dividends in the end. You will end up with two servos and rock solid, worry free performance, or you could fix the torque rods, and wonder when it is going to happen again....

that's very true, that's probably what i'll do. i really apprectiate all the help everyone has been. i love this hobby, it's sooo extremely fun, you learn a lot about building new things, and in the process you learn a lot about yourself. the people in this hobby are by far the best.
-Erik

Go with the two aileron setup like these guys are saying. The Superstar 60 is a great plane, but they should have split the ailerons. The torque rods loosening in there pockets is a common problem. For a temp fix, try using Elmers Probond. This is an expanding adhesive and will fill the enlarged area in the pocket.

Have the wing off the plane but have the aileron servo wire hooked up. Turn on the transmitter and receiver and then move the ailerons with your hand. It should be very easy to see what is loose in the linkage set-up. If it is the aileron torque rods a half assed fix is to put Vaseline on the torque rods so that glue won't stick to them and then put epoxy glue in the cavity. As the glue is drying keep moving the rods to make sure the glue don't stick to them. When the glue dries it should take out all of the slop in the torque rods. Then again try to move the ailerons with the wing off and the radio turned on.