Everybody who has the



h-9 P-47 Thunderbolt, or is thinking about getting the H-9 F6F Hellcat, Look at the posting in the warbird forum concerning the H-9 Corsair and the problems with it. I see most of the same problems with the P-47 and H-9 has done nothing to correct them. My feelings are that the new F6F will in all likelyhood have the same issues.

It is the post calling the H-9 Corsair Junk Please read this if you have considered the h-9 .60 size series.

I have the H9 P51 ARF and it is far from junk. I've had not problems at all with it.

Your that guy from Office Space that invented the jump to conclusions mat aren't you?

I'm surprised H9 still uses 3/16" thick non aircraft grade firewall on their recent .60 sized warbirds. Some areas of the firewall are even less than 3/16" thick.

Not a jump to anything. I posted my concerns when I got my H-9 P-47, and lots of flyers in this forum brushed it off. I found this post, and thought everyone should see that my concerns were not an isolated incident, but rather an ongoing problem that is not addressed by the importer. Hearing about several instances where a powerful and heavy engine disengages from the airframe is not jumping to a conclusion. It is a matter for further investigation, and warrants serious consideration by the buying public. We owe the other people with whom we come into contact while flying our models, our assurance that we are flying a safe (reasonably) model that has a decent chance of not posing a safety threat to those around the flight area. If that is jumping to a conclusion, then perhaps you need to get some exercise learning to jump as well.

Right... just a continuation of your crusade against H9, since your first foray into ARF warbirds had some problems.

You need to understand that you are NOT, single-handedly or otherwise, going to hurt Horizon's business. They have built too good of a track record for themselves. Yes, sometimes "they" need to be prodded, but at the end of the day, 99% of the time, they will make sure an unhappy customer is taken care of. They tried to take care of you, did they not???

Do not confuse me with an apologist/cheerleader for Horizon. I have had my issues with them, and in fact one such is why I no longer fly JR radios. But one should remain objective when dealing with a business. And the bottom line is, Horizon has a good customer service reputation in the overall big scheme of things. And they put out a decent product at a reasonable price. Of the dozen or so H9 ARFs I've owned, the only one that was sub-standard was the Super Stick 40.

Before you climb up on the "product safety" horse of self-righteousness, name me a product- ANY product- that doesn't have a history of occasional bad examples. If one were to take your comments literally, it seems that you believe Horizon is deliberately offering sub-par stuff without regard to our safety. That's a bit of a stretch; in fact, that's testing the elastic limits of credibility. While you may not have intended to say this, I, for one, got that impression.

So, relax. You don't like ARFs? Fine. Don't buy them. Go back to your beloved scratch-built scalers. But you certainly aren't going to dissuade many (if any) folks from buying H9 stuff. Like it or not, ARFs fill a desire for may folks; they're here to stay, and getting better all the time.

I too bemoan the fact that kits are becoming an endangered species, and building a lost art. Sign of the times, pal. You and I aren't going to change that.

In the case of the strong and powerful engines pulling out the firewalls, were they within the described classification given by the manufacturer? I have heard of 1.20's pulling the firewall out of the .60 size airplanes and all I can do is shake my head in wonder why someone would obviouslyoverpower their airframe and then bad mouth the manufacturer. I have owned and flwon everyone of the Hangar 9 ARFs (Mustang, Corsair, P-47, Cessna, T-6, T-34) and most of them are some of the best ARF I have ever seen. I just purchased the large P-47 and must say that it is a beautiful piece of work, much better than 95% of the modeling community could turn out in a 6 month building session. They are not perfect, but I have yet too see any which are. They planes fly great when balanced per the recommendations and when powered with the design specifications. The Mustang, Corsair and P-47 performed excellently with .91 -1.00 four strokes. The moderators really should consider this thread an insult to the manufacturer and is totally unneeded in my opinion. Perhaps though it could serve as a warning to the newbie to adequately check out their planes before putting them in the air, and that includes any manufacturer's product, not just H9.
Tommy

I suppose that you are right. I do not want to harm any business, I just want to receive what I have paid for. I'll retreat to my hovel and continue to churn out decent, "Scalers" as you call them. I just wanted a nice semi scale flyer to putz around with while recovering from a long building session. I won't trouble you any more. Keep on buying the stuff that's being offered. enjoy. Hope you have good fortune with your endeavors.

You're not troubling us, so don't sulk. For my part, I was just exercising what limited First Amendment priviledges we have here, to counter a stated viewpoint. You're certainly entitled to your opinion; I just take exception to somebody who has a problem (which may, or may not, be of his own making) with a vendor and making a crusade out of it... when the preponderance of the evidence suggests that the product in question is NOT the total POS the crusader would have you believe.

Your remark about "keep on buying the stuff that's offered" shows that you still don't get it. We will indeed, because for the most part it is decent stuff at an affordable price. No, it generally isn't as good as if I built it myself from a kit or scratch. Some of us are willing to sacrifice a bit of quality for the time savings. But if something is wrong, or bad enough to cause problems, Horizon will rectify it. So will The Empire, for that matter.

You must be retired. I'm nearly so, and plan to do a LOT of building after I pull the pin; in about 370 some-odd days. But I'll still include ARFs in my R/C diet. In fact, I'm doing a delightful little ARF right now; the Matt Chapman CAP 580 .40 size by Great Planes. Very nicely done, with excellent hardware and accessories. Even the tank was good; although I'm using a larger one to support the engine I chose, I would not hesitate to use the included tank... and those Pacific Rim tanks are usually the FIRST thing I toss when poking through a new ARF box.

Bandit, I can understand your comment about expecting what you paid for. But its called modelling for a reason, guy. Doo-doo occurs. My latest H9 ARF had a serious problem with improper wing incidence. I didn't discover this until the model was finished and flying. That right there made it my fault, as I know better than to not check this important area during assembly.

So, what to do? I could just fix it myself (which took about an hour), or I could have stripped all my gear out and gone through the hassle of returning the airframe to Horizon. They would have even paid the shipping; but I would have to box it all up, etc. That was a no-brainer, bud. Was I annoyed? Exceedingly so. And if it had been something I couldn't deal with, I WOULD have sent the airframe back. But a bit of study showed me I could fix the problem fairly easily.

I could have stood on principle; the principle that I have a right to expect a straight airframe for over $250 invested. And, I'd probably still be working to get the new airframe rigged out; instead of enjoying the self-repaired model. Whatever is important to you; to me, this time it was just easier to suck it up. Next time may be different.

In my opinion, H9 and Great Planes are among the leaders in balancing quality, performance, appearance, affordability, and completeness in their ARFs. I say this based on personal experiance with many of their productions.

From what I can tell, they wish each plane to be a success for it's owner and work to make it so. Add to that the availability of replacement parts and how affordable they make them, and you really do have a great chance to enjoy you plane for a long time. Also adding to the overall value.

Not a commercial here, and I have no vested interest in either company. Just glad they are around and hope they will be for many years, with our support.





I build, I fly, I break, I repair.

I have the H 9 p 47 60 size and the 150 size and thier p 51 and they all are top of the line, a few little quirks here and there but nothing big,,,thats why they call them ARF!
ALMOST READY TO FLY,, ALMOST,,,,you still have to do alittle work,,,,,,maybe a mod here and a mod there,put a little extra glue here,,,on and on,,,thats what its all about,,,,A HOBBY,,,hanger 9 is doing a good job in my book..

I had a Hangar 9 AT-6 Texan, what a great plane, from the quality to the build to the flight characteristics. On the other hand, I have 2, not 1 but 2 Funtana 90 planes and both were barely glued from the factory. 1 came apart in mid air. (Horizon replaced the wings.) The second one that I bought had loose pieces in the wings. I pulled the monocote and hardly anything was glued. I did the same thing to the replacement wings from Horizon. Had I not reinforced the wings with CA and epoxy, I think they would have come apart.

I have flown arfs from hanger Nine and found them to be a Quality arf But their are flaws to how they are built (my opinion) but for the reccord the same can be said for every arf. I build and fly both Kits and Arfs My suggestion is Look at what you are putting together You dont have to follow the directions to a Tee If you don't like the Look of something Fix it before it leves your Work bench

Yeah, that one always mistifies me, also. Why in the world would a company build an aircraft that is rated for a certain size engine, and then NOT build the firewall so that it will support and endure the stresses of an engine that is three times the size of the recommended powerplant...SHAME ON THEM!! It never ceases to amaze me how some of you guys just dont seem to have the common sense to understand a simple principle; if you grossly overpower your planes and the firewall or other component fails, the ONLY one that is responsible is YOU! Not the ARF manufacturer, not the hobby shop, not the engine manufacturer, YOU the builder. If you build that ARF without checking ALL the glue joints and reinforcing what needs to be made stronger, and the structure fails, the only one that is responsible is YOU! Not the ARF manufacturer, not the hobby shop, not the little Chinese guys that put it together in the first place, it's YOU the builder! Yeah, I've got a couple of overpowered planes, one of which is WAY overpowered. I did a lot of reinforcing around the firewall where I thought it needed it the most, and so far so good. BUT, if it falls apart tomorrow, I'm not gonna ***** and whine about the plane being of poor quality. You know why? Because I CHOSE to put those engines in there and ignore the recommended engine sizes, so it's all on ME, plain and simple.

Not picking sides here, but if you read the build threads on the H9 Corsair the motors did not exceed the mfg. recomended sizes.
My first plane was/is the H9 P-51 PTS. And it did have several issues which I corrected thanks to the people here at this board. Should I have had to done that? No. But I being a new guy to the hobby I am glad that I did. It gave me a much greater understanding on the ins/outs of putting a plane together.

And also if I am not mistaken, with the Corsair they have corrected the issue with the firewall and now the only problem is with the wings in the gull area just outside of the wheel wells. To me that says they are listening.
I am not sure how there assembly line is set up or what forms of tooling they use to make these planes. But I do know it takes time to re-tool and change an entire assembly line. And while all those changes are going on, they still have to produce a product to sell. So now you have a few thousand planes out there with a defect. One would think they would post a tech update on there website, but then something like that has the potential of scaring away prospective buyers. The business world is a dog eat dog world, and one has to be extremely careful with the way the handle themselves. Do I like it? No, Can I see both sides of the coin? Yes

If you had bothered to read the post that this thread originally directed you to, you woud have seen that the engines used in the plane that had the catastrophic failures of the firewall were all within the displacements reccomended by the distributor. Why would anyone stand in support of a manufacturer or distributor of any product when it is widely known that these deficiencies are present, is beyond me. I suppose that you gentlemen (Mr. Campbell, Ram3500, JS615,LowlevlFlyer &all) that if you purchased a new motor vehicle, and because pretty much everyone knew that it had a problem, and your new car/truck exhibited that problem, you would not expect for the manufacturer to make it right. Yeah, Right. You would be at the point of sale, Screaming and demanding satisfaction. This is pretty much the same thing (IMHO) I have not ever asked for anything unreasonable in any post or any thread. All I have ever asked for is to get what was promised by the manufacturer/distributor (if you doubt this, go back and check the posts since you seem to know what I have been posting). To date, all I have received from H-9 is an e-mail restating what was written in the assembly manual. Nothing else. No offer to repair/replace the defective part. No apology, no nothing. Mr. Campbell, as to your statement about not being able to take on the company, you are wrong. If everyone who purchased a product from a company who sold products with known weaknesses were to set up a howl and refuse to buy other products from that company until the problems were corrected, it would not take long for that company to respond. If you look at all the posts and threads as they pertainto H-9 products, you will find the same problems have been reported for virtually every model. As to the gentleman suggesting that the moderator do something about this post for, "Insulting" the manufacturer/distributor, then please Moderator, by all means do something. The something shoud be to closely look at what has been said, or pointed out, and the ramifications if these products with the known defects are allowed to be assembled and flown. Gentlemen, not all who will purchase and fly these ARF's have the obvious experience and exrertise that you claim to have. What happens to the flyer who decides to build one of these models for his third airplane, and powers it with the reccomended engine, and is flying it when the firewall (due to it's thin construction) fails in flight? Suppose there are spectators present. Suppose the engine and what's left of the firewall breaks away from the model, and the collection of parts (without effective control) goes into the crowd of spectators? What then? Say it can't happen? Wanna bet?
I am aware that this forum is not public domain, It is owned by someone, and we register to be able to use it. It would be a shame to deny the rest of the members the right to know that there is a problem, and that there is something that can be done about it. The cost of the product should have no bearing on the usefulness of that product. Does it really matter if you are talking about a 250 dollar ARF or a 700 dollar one? That dog won't hunt. Just, please, think about what I have said and don't fly off the handle because I have as you seem to think, taken on one of the sacred cows.

I'd like to add a thought or two.

This is an imperfect world we live in, populated by imperfect people. To expect perfection is a frustration and a dissapointment. I don't expect any ARF to be without flaw. Some are much better than others, but none are perfect, or will be, I suspect.

Those of us who have been around awhile, need to help those trying to decide on their 'third airplane', and show these newcomers where to look for flaws in these ARFs. They are there, you just need to know where top look and how to fix the problems. It is still a lot easier and faster than building and covering one from scratch, something that would be beyond many newcomers to our hobby, if only for the time facter. Out of all the ARFs in the air on any given day, how many simply fail without some help from their pilots. Rare is the failure in the air. The percentages are in our favor, and I contend, with proper care given to the assembly and with feedback from us in forums like this, the owner of one of these ARFs has every chance to have success.

I had the Sig Sukhoi ARF a few years back. It was having an unusually high incidence of apparent wing failures that I happened to read about right here on RCU. I had mine ready to fly, but decided to strip the bottom covering off anyway, just to make sure I hadn't gotten a bad wing. I had! It would have surely failed. Sig was replacing them, but I didn't even ask. I knew how to fix it, and did. No problems.

I would enchourage anyone buying one of these planes to seek help, and read all you can, if new to the hobby, and use your experiance if you've been around awhile. Don't cut corners in building, and don't try to build beyond your knowledge. Learn first, then apply what you know. You will have more fun, be safer, and save a lot of money.

Thanks for the warning of the possibility, Stickbuilder.

However, if I remember correctly, the model isn't released yet, right? Have you seen one yet? If not, let me suggest that you wait until you actually know something is wrong before going into "the sky is falling" mode, or pull out your tar brush.

A bit of advice.......
If you're really worried about others buying a risky ARF, then do them a favor and turn your crusade into a positive one and do a series on how to strengthen the firewall of whatever model you've chosen to tar and feather. Do a service and help those you feel have unfortunately purchased a flawed ARF. Use your building experience as a stick builder and give the newbies and unfortunates a lesson by explaining how to salvage their model. Help somebody. Do something worthwhile with your anger.

BTW, it actually doesn't help your image as a "stick builder". Every competent scratch builder I ever knew would have carefully surveyed a new ARF and fixed what was wrong with it. They'd have seen the problems before flying the sucker, and would have known what to do to resolve them. Truth is, when I read your post, my first impression was that here is another poor guy whose inexperience has led him to ARF disaster. Builders with experience would do everyone a lot better service if they'd take their digital cameras and create a short little illustrated thread/lesson for the newbies and less experienced. If you want to pull H9 up short, then a thread showing the flaws and fixes would serve admirably to call attention to the problems, yet also help the modeling public as well.

It don't take not time a'tall to hep somebody. No more time than you waste to piss and moan 'bout somthin'

Initially when the Corsair came out there were some people who experienced a firewall failure and almost everyone I read about was using a 1.20 fourstroke engine on an airplane that was rated for a .60-1.00. The airplane is built extrmely light, for a purpose, to provide a decent flying rendition of a popular warbird, that has a history of being both difficult to build and to fly. In my opinion they did a decent job of providing the modeler a base to build upon, and improve if they wish. I am all for taking those who are beginners and helping in them out, but they have a responsibility as well. Recently I spoke with a young guy, contemplating the purchase of his second airplane, at the LHS. After a lenghthy conversation about the firewall concerns and overpowering the aircraft, he walked right over picked up the Corsair and a brand new Saito 1.25 to go in it. I just shook my head and thought to myself "why even bother trying to explain to people who will not heed your advice and the experiences of those you have read about". He dropped about $600 right there. I heard he never flew it.
There are obvious faults in all the products we buy, but for the most part the track record of these ARFs is pretty good compared to many others on the market. Like the previous poster said, you have to do a little work, but its called modeling for a reason. And it has to be done with some common sense.

Who flew off the handle???

If YOU had bothered to read my posts thoroughly, you would have seen the part about me having had past issues with Horizon, etc., etc. IOW, there are no sacred cows in this business, as far as I'm concerned.

I am not arguing your points about value received for money spent, although your comparison to an automobile purchase is rather absurd. I agree that we, as consumers, have a reasonable expectation of quality when we buy something. I also contend that we do this particular endeavor by choice, and if one aspect of the endeavor is not satisfactory, then we have the latitude to go elsewhere. IOW, don't buy any more ARFs...

I'm curious about two things:

First, I recall seeing an Horizon senior customer service rep reply to you in another forum, apologizing for your trouble and asking you to contact him by phone so he could resolve things for you. What was the outcome of that?

Second... why the name change from balsabandit to Stickbuilder? I thought someone had spiked my coffee this morning as I tried to figure out who "Stickbuilder" was...

You guys are posting paragraphs that are too big to read! ha ha, Going back a few posts, a guy should not have to strip the covering from an arf to reinforce or glue things together that should have been glued from the factory. If you want to overpower the plane, I think that no one has a problem reinforcing the firewall or anything else.

I have not crashed my P-47. I did find the problems when surveying the parts. At that time, I raised the question in these posts, where I was promptly called down for Picking on the Distributor. After looking long and carefully through the posts, I found that this appeared to be an ongoing problem with the Semi-scale warbirds from this Importer.

Yes, I know what to do to correct these deficiencies, but does the average guy who may not even know about the existance of this website? These are the people that I have been trying to help. This is not my first Dog and pony show.

As to the name change, I thought that it was more in keeping with the aspect of the hobby that I enjoy most. Also, someone asked about my choice of the BalsaBandit, "Handle" since it appeared to them to be more suited to a younger hobbyist.

As to the signature, That should be self explanitory. I can, therefore I do.

As to the post by the rep, I did sent them/him a PM, and he never responded. I sent an e-mail to the folks at H.Q. It took them 2 weeks to respond, and that with a, "Canned" response. I have since asked about a seperate problem (JR 791 retract servo not functioning on 6.0 volts, not on 4.8 volts with the flight pack peaked) and as of yet, no response, other than a receipt for my message. This lack of communication leads me to believe that there is minimal concern for the products that have been purchased, and are already in the field. I realize that some of my questions tend to be technical in nature, and may well be beyond the scope of knowledge of the folks there who routinely answer the e-mails.

I have not had this same experience when inquiring about a product that I wish to purchase. They are, "Johnny on the spot" with those messages. I interpret this to show where their true interests are.

Am I unhappy with this distributor, Yes. Do I think that I can cause some harm to them, No, that is not my intent. My intent was to get the hobbyists to look at the problem with the models that are being imported by these folks, and perhaps we could collectively get the attention of this business. As long as we, as a group tend to think that, Yes there is a problem, but I know how to fix it, and it's not a major issue with me, then there is no burning need for the distributor to make any corrections.

That has been my point from the beginning.

Exactly how is it you think you are "helping" others by continually slamming the distributors? I've read a bunch of your comments as to how terrible Horizon, H-9, etc. are in the customer service area, and how bad these models are, but what I HAVENT read is very much in the way of actual "help" for anyone. If you really wanted to help, you'd be putting up some of your experience as to how to fix some of the problems yourself. Myself, I like to FLY. I do not have time in my schedule, nor the inclination, to dick around with multiple emails, phone calls, return shipping, waiting weeks to get a new model, etc. I have the building skills, so I would much rather just FIX a problem like a thin firewall, sub-standard wing structure, etc. myself, and get the darn thing in the air where it belongs. I would venture to guess there are many others with the same attitude. I would challenge you to find ANY ARF out there currently on the market that doesnt have SOME type of problem, whether it is serious or not. The $150.00 ones have them, and the $2500.00 ones have them. It's not just H-9, it's ALL of them. That's the price we pay for desiring ARF's. You want a perfect aircraft? Build a kit! I'm not defending H-9 or Horizon or anyone else here, just stating my personal opinion.

That is your perrogative. Enjoy.