samolot

My Feedback: (14)

Hi all,

I was jsut wondering, will the MAgic ARF be able to teach me how to fly at higher speeds? I would like to build a patriot XL or get the F20 from sportsman aviation, but the descriptions kind of intimidate me. After a year of flying my GP Easysport, i was trying to get a nice cheap arf to quickly get back in the air, but i dont want anything trainer like. I flown low bottom wings before and i just want a good knock-around plane. Will the magic suffice or should i get the 3d twist?

Thanks guys

Samolot

joesabido

Well, if speed is what you want, I would not go with a 3D or funfly model (like the Twist).

A guy at the field has a World Models Super Sports (about $100) with a 46 engine and I'd say it's pretty fast, he also has a Patriot 46 ARF which is even faster.

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=63

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

The Magic and the Twist (and any other FunFly/3D airplane) is intended to fly slowly. Slower than your EZ Sport in fact. Speed is an airplane killer. Any airplane will flutter if flown fast enough, and that usually means self-destruction in the air. FunFly/3D airplanes have huge control surfaces and all the control travel they can get. They flutter at fairly slow speeds. Planes designed for higher speeds have small control surfaces and small control travel to resist flutter until they are going very, very fast.

If you want to go faster then the EZ Sport, get a nice clean 40 size sport plane, put a good ball-bearing 46 or 50 2 stroke in it and start out with an 11x6 prop. Then change to a 10x7 prop. If you still want more speed change to a 9x8 prop and stand back.

Any of the World Models low wing 40 size sport models (not scale, not 3D) would do, but make sure your control linkages are stiff and tight and don't use any EZ connectors.

Jim

tIANci

Well ... the Skyraider is decently fast only. Even the Super Sport. They are a good start but to be honest its not topping 60 mph. For something fast you can always start off with the Sonic 500 ... those are designed after the Quickie 500s but its not as fast. Only draw back is that you need to get a smaller engine like a OS32SX. If its fast you can try the Shrike, seen one fly and that baby tops 70 mph.

For me I love my EP pylon, small and cheap (cheap Chinese made outrunner and ESC) and I easily hit 70+ mph.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Tower Hobbies has a couple Lanier Predators in thier Scratch & Dent pages right now. $94 is pretty darn cheap.

Slap a .40 or a .46 engine on it and hang on to your shorts. [X(]

If you want to go fast, then buy a plane that was designed to go fast. Don't overpower something that was made to fly slow, and think you'll get a rocketship. All you'll get is a disaster and a bag full of splintered balsa.

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

Well, i was just wanted a plane that will fly similiarly to the Patriot XL, which i really like, however, the jet performance intimidates me so i wanted a nice fast low wing to get used to the speed. I really like the Sonic 500 due to its price, however, i would like to know if its able to slow down for a good landing or do i have to come in hot?

Thanks

Fxrs_tim

If you're comfortable w/ low wing planes already, why don't you go ahead and get the XL? It's only fast if you have a strong engine and push the left stick all the way forward. Tower has the kit and the Tower .75 for under $200, Put an inexpensive set of retracts in it and it'll be a nice step up for you. Later, after you're comfortable with the speed of the .75, stick a Jett 91 in it and hang on!!

tim

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

Well the only reason why im not getting the XL now is because i dont want to invest in a kit and not feel comfortable flying it, therefore i guess the sonic would be a very nice start. I think ill put a .25 LA on it with a 9x5 prop to make it a nice stable "slower" fast model to fly and move up the engine pyramid to a .46 FX.

CrashBurn69

My Feedback: (1)

Why not try a Somthing Extra with an OS 50. That will have some zip to it. It would cost a little, but it would be plenty fun.

Fxrs_tim

samolot,

I can understand the "comfortable" factor of a new plane. Another possiblity you might want to look at is the Sig Kouger. It's relatively inexpensive (~$75 I think), uses a 25-35 size engine (again inexpensive), has jet-like looks, is fast but not crazy fast, and lands very nicely if built light. The Sonic is a good choice too, but this might be a good compromise for you, giving jet looks and fairly gently handling too. If you want to go fast down the road you can stick an OS 32SX in it, or go with a Jett.

Hope this helps! Of course, neither the Koug nor the XL are ARFs - you're going to have to build them.

tim

tIANci

The Sonic is a great one to go with. The SS40 etc have a limit to their speed. This is a great one for fast, its the Graupner Speed Cat. Seen it fly and its fast. It was so fast that the engine can go faster than the wing! It was an awesome crash ... hehehee

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_26...tm.htm#3264868

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

You know what guys, i decided to take a little more care for myself and my planes so i think ill go with this setup:

1) Super Sportster: .46 FX

2) Sonic 500: .25 LA

3) Patriot XL

I know its a little long way, but i dont want to have an overload of a plane for me out there. The sonic 500 seems very nice, but i still think i might need something in between, thanks again guys for your input!

Samolot

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

On the other ohand, the Sea Bee from Phoenix MOdels looks very nice oo: Peopl say its fast and it andles much like a pttern plane/jet plane. This ought to be nice, any ideas? I know im posting alot of planes, and i even posted my new plan, but as a search for more planes, more planes come up with more ideas.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGTS5&P=0

Thanks again guys!


PS: The reason why im trying to get the XL is so i can train up for a ducted fan as wel. THese guys are awesome!

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

Samolot,

If you are looking to become comfortable with high speed, while keeping things ARF and simple, my suggestion is to purchase either a Viper 500 ARF from Great Planes or a Predator 2 from Lanier.

These are two, good quality, excellent flying Q-500 racing aircraft. No bad habbits. Fixed landing gear. Easy to fly, slow down very nicely for landing. Very simple to assembly properly, and not expensive. The current version of each aircraft has been updated so that you will not require any modifications. Build it per the "kit".

Configured as they would be for 424 sport Q-500 racing, with a properly set up Thunder Tiger .40 pro on the nose (also inexpensive) and an APC 9x6 prop, either plane can easily hit 120 mph straight line speed.

Since you are not racing at this point, you can use just about any good .46 size engine you wish.

The same aircraft with a TT.46 pro and an APC 8.75x8W prop will fly just a few mph quicker. The Tower .46 is also a good choice at this level.

To move up in the range of speed, and a bit in price, The Rossi .40 is an excellent value. Its a little heavy, so aircraft balance is sometimes a chore, but its not impossible. Again, the 8.75x8W or 8.8x8.5 prop would be a good choice.

For some more top end speed, select a Jett SJ-46 or SJ-50 engine. These are sport engines, yes they cost a bit more, but they are the top of the sport-engine power ladder. You will get performance just a tad lower than full blown 428 Q-500 racing engines, but here the Sport Jett engines do have a fully functioning carb, will idle, transition, very well behaved and user friendly. One of these engines, on either of the airframes listed above, with a 8.8x8.5 prop - will give you something in the 140-150 mph range. On a good day, perhaps a bit more on the top end speed. The next step up from this would be the SJ-60LX, but I would not recommend that on the ARF planes - it produces more power than the 428 racing engine, and sometimes the ARFs have to be beefed-up a bit.

You will note that all of the engines I recommened have a good carb and throttle. When getting use to higher speeds, USE IT There is no shame in taking off and flying around half throttle for a while.

Again, if you are new to speed, you will want stability and good flight characteristics - along with the capability for speed. You also want simplicity - avoid hand launching if at all possible. The ARF Q-500 kits I noted above are excellent, as well as most of the other Q-500 kits and ARFs available on the market today.

Overpowering a thick-wing sport airplane will not get you anywhere near the speed you will see here. Even the best F-20s, Patriots and Patriot XLs I have records of generally fly in the 120-130 mph range (with Jett power, gear up, well trimmed). A few exceptions are quicker. You can see above that hitting 120-130 with the aircraft and engines I noted above is quite simple in comparison.

I hope this is helpful

Bob Brassell

IronCross

I think the Super Sport is a great choice... I have one and it a beautiful flying plane... It is really just a saller T-34. I use the landing gear off my rekitted T-34's on it... Given that the T-34 is used for plyon racing around here with a 46fx in it and they are clocked on radar at over 90mph the smaller Super Sport should be able to match that at least... I have an Irvine .53 in mine and it can be proped to go faster then I want...
The Super Sport is one of those planes that fly and land so nice that once you have one it becomes one of those planes you always want in your fleet.. I am talking about the Super Sport 40S that comes with the cowl here. They also sell a earlier version 40 with no cowl that had a couple issues if I remember correctly...

wildnloose

IMO, the concept of gradually moving up to faster planes just did not work for me. The flight characteristics were too different to make the transition smooth, I only ended up learning to fly a different plane (which is o.k. by me...).

I had better results just buying the plane I wanted (Weston Magnum/West 50) and learning to fly it slow...then faster....and faster...,
And I can tell you that none of the other planes I flew come even close to flying like the Magnum.

Now, let me just say that I like the Sea Bee, good flying characteristics...no bad tendencies. Flies a lot like the Patriot 40 (never flew an xl). You will need to land it a little faster than your typical sport plane (much like a warbird landing). Its not terribly fast (80mph with a tt 46), but its fun. I hear you can get a patriot up to 150mph but I have not personally seen one(bet you have to spend some dough).

I have a Kougar, very fun plane...a snapping fool. But its too easy to land (gets real slow without tip stalling). Great sport plane, speed is around 80-100 with my Rossi 45.

The Shrike was much closer to performing like my Magnum, except its a lot more aerobatic. Speed range can easily get to 130mph with little effort. A .10 sized Shrike with a .32 engine flies and lands a lot like the Magnum...just slower...

Modeltech has a .40 sized delta racer arf that may be a good buy ($90) for some cheap fun. I have not flown one yet.

Diamond Dust; flew one with a .46...fast but not blistering fast, maybe 130mph(need real motor). Aerobatic fool, blinding roll rate.

Custom build SPAD racer. Probably the most fun I ever had, speed is around 80mph. I always flew on full rates to keep my thumbs loose. Aerobatic performance is close to a Shrike, lands like a brick (comes down at 45 deg. angle without power).

Well, this is my 2 bits....hope it helps...

Oh yeah, check out the Extreme Speed Prop Planes forum. Lots of good info there.

Oh yeah again, agree with Bob...

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

Well the thing is i want to fly jets. However, i am not ready to get into turbines for A LONG while so i want a plane that will perform the same tendencies as one, such as the PAtriot XL (Where i will get an F20 from sportsman aviation afterwards). I want to fly a plane that will prepare me for the XL, so i guess the Sonic 500 might be a good start to speed. It looks really good, however the SEa Bee is also a good choice, i think.

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

Sam,

Lots of good advise here.

The approach of learning on a quicker plane is a reasonable one.

The Sonic 500 is not too bad, but its covering and construction (my experience) leave much to be desired compaired to some other Q-500 designs available (in the same general price range).

If you do go with the Sonic, or other Q500, skip the LA25 unless you already own it. You can pick up the TT.40 or TT.46 for about the same price, and the engine will support other projects down the road without further investment.

If you are looking to get into jets, but not turbines..... let me make the following suggestions for prop-jets...

AK Models Mig 29 and SU-27. Both kits, must be built. Real nice laser cut products. Both are excellent flying planes. Need a good 90 up front of either plane. www.ak-models.com/akmkits.htm

The Patriot XL is a very good plane. Again, a kit. Well behaved, flys well, good building kit. Needs a good 75-90 engine.

Juno R/C F-18 (75-90 size) and F-20 (46 size) again, are both outstanding. Good kits, fly very well, nice jet-like-appearance www.junorc.com

The Sportsman F-20 is ok. Fixed gear - can not accomodate retracts though (kills the speed). And, it is an unauthorized and unlicenced copy of the the Juno F-20, and as such I will not recommend it.

The Phoenix F-20 ARF is not to bad. Needs a solid performing .50 size engine. Its a bit bigger than the Juno F-20

Rich Uravich's .25 size A-7 is a real blast !! Its going to be a scratch-built plans project, but with a .32 up front, it really flys quite nicely. (note, the house of balsa A-7 kit is similar in design and size, but it tends to build heavy for some reason)

Probably my favorite right now, Cermark's F-16P ARF. Hard to fault this plane much. The new version of the plane is spectacular. Needs a solid .90 power up front - lots of these flying with Jett 90 power, needs at least OS91FX with jett or ultrathrust mufflers for some added boost.

And of course, as noted above, the Weston Magnum - Its not scale, but its fun

Also keep an eye on the market places for the .40 size Patriot kits and ARFs. They show up frequently.

Bob

Fastsky

You might want to search some other threads but from what I have read the Patriot does fly fast at full throttle but, will also fly at a stupid slow speed that is slower than most other planes can handle. That being the case why no just get one of these and after the take off, cut the throttle back to 1/3 or so until you get used to the plane. You can always throttle up when you get used to how the plane handles. [8D]

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

The patriot flys nice, performs well at lower power settings - but its landing speed tends to be higher than most sport planes. Definately will not walk in for a landing like an ugly stick or super sportster, but its not an unreasonable landing speed either. Its just a quick plane, with a high wing loading - nothing to be scared of, it is well behaved and stable all the way to the runway, but the approach speed is definately not 'stupid slow'.

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

I reallyl ike the Sonic except im a tad scared by the take off technique. Since this is a "raceing" plane, it requires you to set it on full throttle and push it hard and get to the stick as quickly as possible, or it will turn and you will lose it. DOes the Sonic have this problem? Becuase if so, i guess ill go with the phoenix sea bee and patriot after.

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

Ummmm. Yall are getting some wrong information from somewhere.

Sure, what you described is a racing launch. Its not necessary for sport flying. It does help if someone else can place the plane on the flight line for you (as with any other aircraft - its good to have a helper). And perhaps he might hold the tail while you crack the throttle a bit - then let it go so it starts rolling. But no, you do not have to push it, shove it, or even take off at full throttle. Maybe hold a tad of right rudder, and even that is not required in most cases.

Its a racing plane, but dont kid yourself. It will taxi. you have a throttle. Hold a little up, get it rolling, ease into the throttle, stear with the rudder as usual. It will be off the ground in about 25-50 feet. Landing and taxi is not a problem either. Even on a grass field, I can taxi my 15 year old Scat Cat back to the pits... just hold full up when taxiing. Does not even require a tail wheel, but you can add one. And yes, even the v-tail planes will stear and taxi on the groud

Any of the q-500 designs are no different than your typical ultra sport, ugly stick, P-51 or j-3 when it comes to take off. If you want improved ground handling, replace the disk racing wheels with good-ole foam dave brown 2.25" wheels.

Just attempting to clarify here.
Bob

samolot

My Feedback: (14)

Wow, thanks alot for the great info here guys! I really feel confindent in my choice now, seems like the sonic might win this vote. Thanks for clearing up the takeoff mess, bob27s, and thank you for the great links to prop driven jets! Might challenge my decision for the PAtriot, but for now.....i have my stuff to work with

THanks again guys!

Samolot

teeps80

Sonic 500. All the way !

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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3D models flown at high speed will begin to shed parts in a hurry. They are only intended to be flown at open throttle during vertical ascents, otherwise it is flutter city.

A Phoenix Models F-20 Tigershark would be an ideal first high speed model. Install a hot .50 - .53 (Rossi .53 for $200 on eBay) and you are on your way. Yes, I have one. Save the Diamond Dust for later.

Wanna go really fast with it? Forego the landing gear and get someone to hand launch it for you.