Hey just wondering if anyone else has flown this plane?I just got one and I am wondering if I should put a Magnum 61 4s in it or go all out with power with a Saito 80?I have been curious to how aerobatic it is and if it can handle any 3D stuff at all?Mainly the simpler things like harriers and hovering.I am also wondering about basic things like spins, inverted spins, and blenders.

Overall this ARF looks simply great, for 99 dollars I can not believe how good this thing is.I was surpised!The construction quality looks great, and the covering is beautiful but there is one little tear at the end of the aileron, it can't be perfect after all!

One problem I had when putting the ailerons on was with the hinges they use.I like the design its a refreshing change from the CA hinges I am used to and they say to epoxy them in but being myself I decided to use CA because I knew it would hold but apperantly no matter how hard you try not to get any in the actual pivot joint it ends up there.So now they are pretty hard to move back and forth and the only thing I really worry about is how well they will return to center.Is there a good way to loosen them up?

I know that when I do the elevator and rudder I will do it differently.

This is what the hinges are like: http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=269
That is a good idea to oil the joint before gluing, too bad I didn't think of that.

The plane flys great. I have one that is powered by a TH .61 2S. It seems to excel in the pattern type manuevers,knife edge,snap rolls and point rolls, tail slides etc. I had the plane for a few months now and tried increasing the throws for for 3-d type manuevers but it starts to become real snappy with increased elevator throw. I'm going to get more stick time on it before experimenting with aft CG and control throws.
My plane came with CA hinges but I have not had any problems with them. I do periodically check them (as we all should). My only compaint with it is the beautiful covering is VERY fragile. It will rip just by cleaning it. I had to patch it with clear packaging tape at almost every flying session. I recovered the bottom with white Monocote because it ripped off during flight.I tried covering the rest of the fuse with clear econocote but it still tears. Its too late to save the wings with all the patchwork I had to do on it at the field. I will eventually recover it but the airframe is an excellent flier. You certainly cant beat it for the price!

Yeah I was afraid of that, I guess good things can't last.I am glad to hear it flies good though.Does it do spins/inverted spins?How about hovering?Oh and do you think it was over powered with the .61?I have a Saito FA-82 I could put in it, that would probably be more than enough power.

I think the .61 is a perfect match for this plane. I was able to balance it with no added weight and it has unlimited vertical performance. It will spin easily but my current throws will not allow it to flatten-out very much. I can also get it to hover at around 3/4+ throttle but I'm running a 12/6 prop which is kind of a high pitch to be able to hover and have enough reserve pull to get out of trouble. Also, it doesn't have large ailerons and elevator so you have to be quick on the sticks to maintain a hover. Undoubtedly your Saito will work well with plenty of reserve power,but this plane doesnt have the thick 3-D airfoil and likes the faster aerobatic maneuvers.

Well sounds good then because I wasn't expecting it to be 3d, the only 3d thing I kind of wanted to do was hovering, harriers would be fun too.Have you tried harriers at all?But other than that I like the fast and sometimes violent stuff like blenders.

Another question, did you use the carbon fiber rod with the split y rods to control both elevator halves, and if so how is it working?I had a plane go in because the stab broke off from tail flutter with that kind of setup.But that one had flimsier wires that connected to the elevator halves and I have several other planes with this design that work fine.And if you have any other tips let me know, also I am going to use HiTec 322 servos all around, think they should be enough?They are 42oz of torque.Same servos our local hobby shop owner uses in his whats it so I figured they should be enough.

Oh yeah as for the real 3d stufff I just ordered a Tribute, should be fun.

I'm using Hi-Tec BB servos too, I think they're 322s but anyway they work fine. I also used the Carbon Fiber/split rods for the elevator and so far so good. I don't do power-on dives but i really crank it up and do high speed spins and snaps,not a hint of flutter. I don't have enough elevator throw for harriers and will probably need to move the CG aft a bit too but I'm not very skilled at Harriers anyway. If you follow the pictures the assembly is pretty straight forward and I believe the supplied hardware is decent. I don't remember if this plane had EZ connectors but if so I always replace them with either clevises or Z bends just as a personal preference. I think you will really enjoy this plane but let me know if you find a way to protect the covering. It really tears easily when flying and it can cause severe trim changes.

Enjoy,
~Jay

Ok good to hear, I didn't think the carbon fiber split rod would be a problem since it is much stronger than the one I had a problem with.That being a Lanier Extreme Stick.As for the instructions you have got to love some of the english."Use to the best short" and "use to grow to the best".
I would also like to find a way to protect the covering, I am not looking forward to when it rips.It is really thick covering but very brittle.You would think they would use a higher quality covering since they are going to the trouble of airbrushing it, doesn't make sense.

Have just got one of these Giles yesterday myself. I also got a new OS50SX to go with it. As soon as the box was opened I was sold. It looked great and the components look well put together. Will update the post with the build as I start which will not be for a week or so. I hope I have better luck with the covering as that was one of the reasons I bought it.

The covering was also one of the reasons I bought it too. Very unique at the flying field. The advertising really doesn't do it justice. The design doesnt show up well in the air so you might consider adding something to the bottom wings to help with orientation. Make sure to use medium heat. Not only does the covering tear easily its also hard to reshrink/repair.

Yeah I had that feeling too, it is very thick and stiff which is probably why it tears, jsut too brittle.I just got mine finished last night and should be maidening it today as well.I set the throws on it as high as I could then mixed exponential on one setting of my transmitter and dual rates that half the throw plus exponential on the other setting which is what I will start with.I guess the main thing I am worrying about for the maiden is parts flying off at high speed, I had that happen to a cheap plane once and I am just paranoid now.That and CG is a big part of it that scares me, I have lost a few planes to CG that was off too far, back too far usually.This one is set up slightly nose heavy so I should be fine.The more I look at the plane the more I think my Saito 100 would be a good match for it, but it feels like a light plane once it is built, so either way it should be a nice flyer.

Also I have heard that Giles tip stall easy, I am not sure if this one does or not as all rc planes seem to be different.A Decathlon is a good example of that, most of the Decathlon models tip stall badly and the Goldberd which I have doesn't.Then I have a Goldberg Extra which is supposed to be a great flying plane and it is a death trap it tip stalls so easy.

As far as the connectors it came with they were some kind of white plastic clevises with a metal rod through them and the metal broke on one I was putting on, so I ditched those and used some other plastic ones I had.The only problem is that the rod they include has a different thread on it than my clevises but luckily I could use some plastic ones I had as they are good for "rethreading" and not stripping.

How much throw do you have on your elevator when you say you don't have much anyway?I am not sure if I measured the throw right, I just stuck a ruler up to the elevator and moved it and measured from center and the recomended throw barely even moved it, the throw I have was something like 70mm I think instead of their 15-20 or 20-30 which didn't seem like it would be enough to hardly fly around safely much less do a loop or something.The rudder is set to move enough to line the rudder up even with the elevators rudder cut outs.

Also as far as the cover and as nice as it is, I think if worst comes to worst I will just recover it and I am trying to just prep myself for that time so I don't cry too hard!
I may try to silk span it too, I love the look of silkspan, no wrinkles and it shrinks very tight as well.They have very realistic paint colors too, monokote is always very bright not like most real planes.

Well I will let you know how the maiden goes and if it survived.[X(]
I have been having such bad luck with planes doing weird things lately I am nervous, and the plane is just so nice looking I would absolutely hate to see anything happen to it.

Well I maidened it yesterday but my FA-80 wasn't running very well, I forgot I had problems with this engine when I put it on so I didn't fly much.But I flew enough to like what I was flying, seems to be a smooth stable flyer, I was on low rates to start with and stayed on them and even with about half throw on the ailerons it had a very nice roll rate.I was suprised.As soon as I rolled it I said "Yeah, this is a nice one." I was sold. [8D]

I was very nervous on take off but as soon as it took to the air I could see this was one good flying airplane, I didn't test the stall or anything because I didn't want to idle too long and have the engine quit on me, but I did land pretty slow a few times with no problem at all.The Goldberg Extra I have has horrible tip stalls.

When I got back last night I pulled the Saito FA-80(yeah it was an 80 I made a mistake when I said 82) and put my Saito 100 on it and it runs good.I had to enlarge the cowling for the exhaust pipe to fit and enlarge the already big hole for the high speed needle though.But the bad news and good at the same time is that I was running it just to see how it ran and noticed the engine was coming loose and it didn't suprise me because the engine is big and vibrates a bit and I might not have tightened the motor mount screws enough, but then I looked inside the cowling and it is that whole firewall box that seems to be loose.I am glad I caught it before flying it, now I just need to strengthen it up.

So how does your Giles stall, is it an abrupt tip stall or a slow wing drop or does it just mush in?Also where do you have your CG set?

Well done on the maiden flight. The engine box coming loose is something I would like to hear more about as i will do any mods if they are required during the assembly. Did it come loose because of failed glue joints or has some of the plywood split? Matt

hi guys

at last i found a forum started on the giles 202 50.
i just got one of these at a show the other day and i've been reading you're post word for word , vert good reading it makes too.
I plan to use a SC51 two stroke on mine, hope it will still have the power to pick it up.

i notice in you're post that there have been issues with the covering [] and wonder if i will have the same problem ?

On the box that the plane came in, it says about it being the a Version 2 and i read that it has a clear film over the covering , does it say this on you'res.
seem such a shame that ones of it best features , is let down by poor covering.


it is a very uncomon plane, and that makes it all the more interesting at the field. [8D]

Using a 51 I would say it would have enough power, maybe not unlimited vertical but definately enough.The 80 I used even as little as I did seemed to have more than enough power, then teh 100 pulling the firewall loose clearly has way more than enough.
I haven't had mine long enough to really tell how the covering is going to be, but mine is also the version 2, I don't know if Jaysbird is though.

matt13,, turns out it was the main firewall that came loose not the box glued to it.It was just glue joints that failed, nothing broken.And it was just the top.I wasn't really suprised as I hear alot about ARF's having bad glue joints on the firewall.So I poured the epoxy to it inside and out, I am guessing the airplane gained about half a pound!But it is worth it to have piece of mind.

When assembling you could add a little epoxy to it on the inside of the plane if you want to strengthen it up.I think I am going to do that to all ARF's from now on anyways, even if they aren't as overpowered as this will be.I can't really think of any other tips for building it, just be prepared for the usual annoying things that plague most ARF's.One thing I can think of was the aileron rods were too large to use standard E/Z connectors and the supplied connectors don't have the snap on plastic piece, it is a nut that screws on and you have to loctite it.After it was all said and done the loctite ended up on the servo arm on both of them and the ailerons were very hard to move.So I ended up just making new rods for both of them out of a standard size rod that would actually fit the connectors I already had.Another alternitive would be to just make a z-bend.I just prefer the E/Z connector for its adjustment and it just makes things easier.

I can't really think of anything else that was enough trouble to really make me stop.Cutting the holes in the cowl for the engine and exhaust was kind of scary.Such a nice looking cowl to start cutting in to, but no big deal.A hole saw worked great for that.Until I changed engines and had to make the hole bigger, but it still looks ok.

Something I am thinking about doing is painting the inside of the canopy black or tinting it because the canopy I got was really foggy and not very good looking and I think a black canopy on this would look very nice.

If you have any specific questions about it go ahead and ask and I will try to answer as best as I can.By the way here is a picture of it when I had the 80 on it on the first day it flew.I do plan on getting a nice looking aluminum spinner for it, and a shiny new prop.
In fact I was actually thinking about a 3 bladed prop with this 100 just to be different, it might look pretty cool.I will have to try it since I have one for this 100 somewhere.

Thanks for the tips, I will add some epoxy to mine before the engine is mounted. Matt

Glad to hear your first flight went OK. I read your post yesterday but I forgot what the control throws were set at on my Giles. I checked them last night and theyre set at 3/4" Hi and 1/2"low with 25% and 15% expo for both aileron and elevator. I didn't check the rudder but I usually set it for as much throw as possible. I know this does not seem like a lot of throw (and its not for 3D flying) but as you found out this plane is very responsive. I usually fly on low rates and its very aerobatic. very crisp snaps,rolls, spins but again flat spins will not flatten out much unless you increase the elevator throws. As far as its stall, it will drop a wing when it stalls at low speed but not violently. It will land pretty slowly and is manageable in cross wind landings. One thing you should be aware of is high speed stalls. On high rates it will snap out of manuevers with too much elevator too quickly and it can happen fast. I tried doing consecutive snaps and it went into a spin. It took several feet to recover but thankfully I was a couple mistakes high. On the low rates it really doesnt have any bad tendencies and I'm having a blast with it! I forgot to check where my CG is but I 'll check it tonight. I'm quite sure its within what is recommeded in the manual.
I had my Giles since February and I don't think mine said version 2. Maybe they did address the issue of the fragile covering. If thats the case I'll definitely buy another.
Aenigma, you are right its always a good idea to add epoxy on glue joints on ARFs just to be on the safe side. But also I wouldn't trust EZ connectors on any control surface either. I think its safer to use clevises or Z-bends.
BTW it looks like the cowl on your plane matches the color better than the one I have. Maybe there is a 2nd version??

Yeah this version 2 might have better covering, that would be nice.The cowl is the exact color of the plane as far as I can tell.Which was suprising as most planes I have with cowls have such a different color it might as well not be for the plane.Nice to know about the high speed snap, that is the kind of thing that really bothers me.That is how my Extra would fly, I couldn't even do a loop unless it was gradual.But I did a loop with the Giles and had no problem, so the high speed stall isn't anything like that Extra.And I have heard that Giles do have a tendency to snap.
For my throws I just set them up to have the most throw you can get on them and then dial them in with the controller.That also reminds me, when I flew it I tried some knife edge and while it has more than enough rudder to do it, it has an interesting coupling effect.I am used to a plane always trying to roll the direction you add knife edge while at the same time having to counteract it pitch to one side, but this thing suprised me when it tucked in the other way causing the plane to want to go inverted.Do you use any mixing for knife edge?I think I am going to try to do some mixing so I don't get confused and end up losing the plane becuase it would be alot of fun to do some low high alpha knife edges.

As far as the E/Z connectors go I have used them in just about all my planes (about 26 of them so far, yeah this hobby is addicting!) and I haven't had one fail yet.Clevises on the other hand I have seen break plenty of times, but luckily nothing that caused a crash.

I checked where the CG is on my plane and it at 95mm from the LE at the fuse. The manual shows that you need to measure out 165mm from the center of the fuselage and where that point intersects the wing you measure between 85mm -95mm back to find the CG???. Anyway I built a Vanessa CG jig and always double check the CG. The exact CG is at 100mm from the LE at the fuse.
My Giles flys perfect in knife edge with out any mixing. No coupleing effects at all. It will even climb in knife edge but not quite do a loop. The only time I have problems is when I fly knife edge with say the right wing up and then do a fast aileron roll to get the left wing up it seems to pull toward the gear but I think its my timing on the controls.

Yeah I just flew mine again last night and it turns out I had a habit of mixing opposite rudder with rudder because the only airplanes I ever knife edged are airplanes that don't do anything, so you have to force them to do things like knife edge.Just last night I found out that I only have to add a little bit of aileron towards the high wing to keep it straight, it almost does it by itself.But you are right about it being very snappy, almost seems like too much aileron control at slow speed.I messed around a little bit just to see how it might hover or harrier.Hovering maybe if I get the hang of it, but harrier I really doubt it, way too much wing rock.

This Satio 100 really makes it go, and man does it sound good.Instead of having a regular muffler on it(I never use them on 4 strokes, makes them sound weak) I just used the elbow fitting that goes to the muffler and put rubber muffler extensions on it and you can see it coming out of the bottom of the cowl in my picture up there.It had a really good growl to it when flying by at lower throttle settings.But as I thought would happen the muffler extensions ended up tearing/melting and I am going to have to redo it with something else.I just used those extensions that you usually use on 2 stroke pipes and they don't even get hot compared to 4 strokes.

Oh and as far as CG measurements go they sey to measure from where the aileron ends closest to the fuselage and in the book they say 85-95 and after putting the Saito 100 on I haven't rechecked mine since I don't really worry about nose heavy planes, just tail heavy.But I can tell it is nose heavy since I had to add a bit of up elevator to keep it straight, and it just feels a little mushy at times.

It seems like a fun plane so far even though I have just been flying it to get the hang of it and not really doing anything.I haven't tried a spin yet either, although I was trying a hammerhead and it tried to go in a spin.Not the best place to have that happen though!

How do you pressurize the fuel tank without the muffler pressure tap? I'm currently working on a Zero from CMPro and will use a 4Stoke. I want it to have a nice growl too.

But I think the Giles will really be fun when the CG is closer to the correct location. I think mine is a little nose heavy too but not much. I have to hold a bit of down pressure only when flying inverted. Thats probably normal but I'm going to experiment by slowly moveing it it back a bit at a time.

I don't pressurize the tank, they don't need it.You just have to tune the engine without the muffler since it changes how it runs.At least I haven't had a problem with the ones I have.Which would be a Saito 80, Saito 100, Magnum .61, and an O.S. 40 Surpass.Althugh I kept the muffler on the surpass, I don't remembe if it was because it didn't run right or just because I decided to keep it on because it didn't make much of a difference in sound.It is worth checking to make sure it will work on your 4 stroke though.

Oh and I am not exactly sure why it had such a nice growl, I think it had to do with a combination of the muffler extension tubes and the cowl.When I was running it without the cowl off but the extension on it sounded different.The cowl just gives it a nice reverberation or something.Pretty cool though.

Since I havn't mounted the engine yet, I think I'll try running it on the bench w/o the muffler to see if I can get it tuned. It's an ASP .65, probably the same as your Magnum 61. I heard they are manufactured at the same place. Its my first 4stroke so it may take me a while to get used to any tuning or adjustment differences. It just seems to me that if you dont pressurize the tank the engine may have problems drawing fuel on high G manuevers,especially on aerobatic planes. Have you ever experienced this?

No I haven't had that problem.But I don't have many planes that are very aerobatic.I had the Magnum .61 on my Stick which is actually capable of pulling quite a few G's oddly enough and I don't have a problem with it.At first I did but it turned out it was just my fuel tank, now it is fine.I can go full speed into a full back elevator loop with no problems.Other than that I haven't really had these 4 strokes on anything very aerobatic.I think 4 strokes are just really good at sucking fuel even without tank pressure.

If your ASP is anything like my Magnum then you will like it for how well it runs but you won't like how under powered it is.When I got mine the guy said it was the same size and power as a 46 2 stroke.It is the same size but I don't even think it is as powerful as a 40 2 stroke much less a 46.But it still a nice engine, and at 100 dollars its a deal.

Saito's have more power but they are the most annoying engines to tune, I hate them.I am not sure if it is because they have junk carbs or what, but it never fails to piss me off at the field making me tune it instead of fly it.The Saito 100 in the Giles still isn't tuned right but it isn't quitting on me so I just left it.The Magnum and the O.S. on the other hand have been pretty easy to tune.Oh and the Magnum really likes to run rich, even more so than most 4 strokes.Especially when you are breaking it in.

It was yet another very windy day to- day , no flying this weekend it seems  Grrrrr ! , but did get to make a start on me Giles. First things first, went all over looking for any build faults that I could spot , all ok except for it needing a very small dollop of epoxy down a hair line gap in one corner of firewall.

I also took you’re advice on adding a little epoxy around the landing gear bulk head, I warmed some epoxy up under a table lamp so it got warm and very runny, then poured it in to landing gear bulk head and swelled it around a little to get it to spred all over.
I added a little to the inside of the engine mount box while I was at it.
When it’s hot and runny a little epoxy goes along way, afterwards I checked the weight of the fuse and it only added about 20grams so I’m happy with that.

I got the Aileron mounted on the wings with out any trouble there ( thanks for the tip “Aenigma about using oil to stop the glue getting into the joints “ )and done the little cut outs for the servos, I noticed when cutting the covering out wings that it actually looks quite thick for covering , seems to be made up of three layers two clear with the colored layer sand-wedged in-between. Not had any real problems with it yet.

Still a long way to go before I’ll be taking to the skies with this one. Well that is unless it keeps raining ;-)

Glad the oil tip helped, I like those hinges they are pretty cool.
I noticed that about the covering too, seems they use some yellow monokote then airbrush the color scheme on it and put decals on then clear coat it.So this version may very well last awhile.At least I hope so.