Hope this isn't a stupid question but I know most if not all of the wood parts are cut using the latest laser technology but what about the assembly process? I'm just curious about it. Is there an assembly line where different parts are assembled and then covered by hand. The workmanship is very good quality (on most models) and I know I couldn't do it without a lot of years of experience. Just looking for a free education on ARF's and how they're made. Thanks in advance. B-

I've visited quite a few ARF factories in recent times.
Yes - the parts are Laser cut (mostly but I have seen one factory that router cuts them),
Many factories don't sand the "Char" from the laser cut surface. - this is where many ARF's get the reputation for being poor quality because it can act as an inhibitor to the next step.

The different components are then assembled on basic jigs. This is the other place where the Quality or lack of it comes from. Some factories dry assemble, then apply CA to wick into the joint, Some use hot Glue then put the joint together really quickly, Some use hot glue on the outside of the dry assembled joint, and some use CA prior to assembling the joint.

The covering is then (usually) done by hand from predetermined templates for each panel.

One thing is for sure. Each of the factories that I have dealt with do a lot of R&D test flying to get the models to fly well.

not all arfs are good. when i got into the hobby 25 years ago you usually had to build a kit to have a well built model. back then arfs were almost non-existent. years later when arfs became popular i started buying them and they were not to bad. but nowdays they are very popular and they are mass produced and that is where the problem starts. they are built much you would build a kit but on assembly lines in china, vietnam for companies here in the U.S.....one problem with arfs is the glue they use.. like hot glue guns with a very low grade glue. every arf i buy i re-glue a lot of the structure i can get too ....one in particular is the engine firewall.i've had a few come loose. now i completely re-glue the inside with epoxy. the other problem is the covering on them and the way its applied. when i built kits i would use balsarite on the wood 30 minutes before covering. i applied the covering pulling it tight and ironing it down carefully making sure the glue on the covering is bonding to the wood. most arf manufacturers do not do that. the covering is cut from stencils and then applied to the model and the seams are are sealed. then it is sent thru a heat oven to shrink the covering and adhesive "kicks off" before adhering to the wood. i have two kits that i built and covered many years ago and the covering is still sealed and drum tight. i have had several arfs that the covering had lots of wrinkles because the glue is not bonded to the wood. some it just fell off of them and i had to re-cover them. also some arf manufactures use a unknown covering that does not color match any of the known quality coverings such as monokote, ultracote, oracover and a few others. if you have to do repairs your out of luck. recently i learned that two popular companies that i bought arfs from for years that used quality coverings is no longer using those coverings. they are now using the "unknowns"................sorry to ramble on but just putting my 2 cents in.

I guess you get what you pay. I bulid and buy arf's. I think they have improved. My last 2 ARFs were Great Planes Curtiss Hawk and the RV-6. Excellent models, excellent design and execution. I had a 40 size Horizon Cub (purchased like 5 years ago) that was a pain to assemble because holes and sizes did not match, same w/a trainer from them... The covering on the 2 Great Planes ARF mentioned above is impeccable.

NOTE: The Electric Telemaster's firewall came off taxiing back to the pits. The problem was the soft glue (not hardened) they used, and the lack of glue on the reinforcemente (triangular stock). I re-assambled w/epoxy and CA. Never had a problem again. Great model, very light...

Gerry
Telemaster 40 size electric ARF, RV-6 ARF electric 90 size, Curtiss Hawk ARF w/ a Brilelli 26, Sig clip wing cub G-26, Balsa USA Supercub Quadra 42CD. Finishing a BALSA USA Fokker DVIII. Winter project re-do a 1/3 scale Morane Saulnier (original BALSA USA) hanging from the rafters for like 10 years, this one I purchased used (ARF, in some way)...

i do not want to get a bashing thread started but did you read that recent forum concerning great planes arfs and the new covering they were using now.. it started a couple weeks ago and lasted about 10 days. it was a great planes and tower hobbies bashing extreme. it got bad enough a rcu moderator stopped the postings. it started when someone was cripping about their great planes arf was not covered in monokote as advertised...but some unknown cheap bad covering. it seems great planes has quit using quality coverings like monokote and other popular coverings. there were too many postings from others with the same complaint for it not to be true. i have a gp venus 40 i bought two years ago and it is monokote and is well built.. a buddy of mine recently bought one and it is definitly not monokote. i'm positive his is covered in towerkote but the graphics are something else and they are coming loose and the color pigment stays on the base covering. great planes was one of my favorite arfs. now i hear their not even advertising their arfs in monokote......sad!

That does not line up with the GP website they show all the monokote colors used to cover each plane in the manual
Maybe it the monokote that has changed I know the Reactor has some kind of clear skin over the color that seperates
But lets face it they will do anything to keep the 300% mark up on the planes

I am sad to hear that. I purchased the RV-6 and the Hawk as soon as they came out (meaning some time back). Maybe they were using real Monocote at the time since the covering is flawless. Nevertheless I would not be surprised they are pushing the cheaper Tower covering. They (Tower-Great Planes) also own Goldberg and Lainer now, I am not happy about that either...

Gerry

I've seen the factoy where the GP /Lanier /CG arfs are made (as well as some other brands). It is one of the better factories and is definitely not one of the "sweat shops" that many people imagine. When I was there, I noticed many roles marked "Monokote", I suspect that skiman is right - maybe the Monokote has changed. Oracover is very big in this part of the world also.

that forum had 143 post's before the moderator locked the forum. i went to towers site and checked their ads for gp arfs. yes, some are still being advertised as monokote. that was the biggest complaint on that forum was gp arfs being advertised as monokote but were not. the skybolt and the rv4 were two of the planes that people were complaining about. one guy posted pictures of his gp arf and the trim was coming off leaving the pigment on the base covering that was not monokote either, one person was talking about a lawsuit for false advertising. ...........i noticed the venus 40 is still advertised as monokote but my buddy's new one was not. 2 1/2 year's ago i bought a tower kaos which was advertised covered in monokote. it was not monokote . the covering on the fuse literaly just fell off and i went to recover it and monokote colors did not match and the covering was much thinner than monokote. no one at tower knew what it was covered with so they refered me to hobbico. they "thought" it might be towerkote. i ordered two rolls of red and white and without question it was towerkote. colors matched perfectly. point is it was advertised as monokote when i bought it. they do not advertise it as monokote covered anymore.

a bunch of 12 year old Chineese girls working 20 hours a day.

What always gets me is people want a 85 inch ARF but want it for 300 bucks and then complain about the quality
If everyone stick built at least one 40 size airplane and got the covering to look half as good as a cheap arf they would soon learn that 700 bucks isn't really bad for a quality 85'' arf

I have to agree with you. I actually prefer the fabric coverings like 21st century. My covering work looks better (besides, covering bigger planes is much easier). My Telemaster ARF covering started to get loose on some edges, but I was able to iron it down w/o problem. Of course, unlike the gas planes that I clean w/windex, the electrics only need a dusting:-) I stopped using Monocote long time ago (do not get the best results). For plastic film I prefer Oracover...

Gerry

Skiman,

I think that everyone should build a kit from time to time to help them remember the work that goes into building an airplane.

The ARF's are a fantastic deal price-wise, and yes you will have to go over it reglueing , beefing up where neccesary, but don't forget what it takes to build the kit. And covering...well I cannot do as good a covering job as those arf's I am sad to say.

You get what you pay for, don't forget what you paid for.

MR G

One thing I'm sure is that they have more then two hands when they cover an arf
that makes a huge differance when doing a covering

I've never covered a whole plane but it looks like an art in and of itself. I have enough trouble just doing a repair covering.......[8D]

One detail about ARFs stands out after you've experienced a few.

Overall, the workers in the factories do not have much idea about what they're assembling. You will experience and hear about models that have fatal flaws in them. For example, my Tiger60 ARF came with a steel elevator connector that was cracked somewhat. I immediately tested it. I've autopsyed a number of ARFs that had stabilizer flutter. The most recent couple had adequate design but worthless balsa, wood that no experienced builder would have put into their model. Experienced kit builders would have rejected the punk wood and substituted. Experienced scratch builders wouldn't have chosen the wood for that purpose. (maybe not for any purpose) The ARF workers simply glued in what was in front of them to use.

As for the plants dilligently testing their designs, I've got to suggest that maybe some do, but don't bet the farm on it. We've seen a number of tricycle geared planes with mains that are directly under where the CG is suggested. That's actually an ignorant thing to do if you're designing. Almost everyone has lots and lots of examples of things that weren't simply assembly line QA problems.

The one thing that needs to be stressed about ARFs is that they are presently made in a manner that requires modelers to have some experience to insure their safe operation. Impossible to do? Yeah, until you've gone through enough of them to have gained some experience.

How are they made? Beautifully. But by people who would be working in a toy factory if it were a closer bicycle ride from their house.

So true they think G Force is a video game being made next door

i have built many kits and arfs over the past 25 years. yes, i got lazy and now i only build arfs. the funny thing is, the group of many people i fly with,.. two thirds of them have never built a kit. some of the younger ones cannot even imagine building a kit!!!. the older fella's too!. we have quite a few retired guys in our group new to the hobby and none them have ever built a kit and have no intention of doing so. some of the people in our group, young and old,... cannot even tune a engine!!! they get other people to do it for them. so arfs are here to stay and if we buy them we got to work out all the problems with them.

I just purchased a 65" G.P. Ultimate last week and it certainly appears to be Monokote. Haven't sent a sample in to C.S.I. yet, though. ;-)

I know its a long shot but are any made in USA? Even if there was, it would probably cost a fortune. I know, you're laughing aren't you?...............

Not laughing at all.

Crying

The situation with Great Planes and the Monokote substitution does not seem to be a conspiracy to cheat people out of a few pennies, but a problem with the ARF mfg versus Great Planes.

For example, the GP Skybolt is advertised to be Monokote covered and all but the bottom covering appears to be. The bottom is an orange-white checkerboard covering that is significantly lighter and weaker than Monokote. And there is at least one other model that is covered with something of obviously less quality.

A Great Planes spokesman has said that GP is looking into the problem. That suggests the ARF mfg "didn't read the advertising" (or care about it), and that GP hasn't been keeping a close watch on what's being delivered to them. None of it is good news for us.

What we should learn from this is that it pays for each of us to inspect our ARFs 1st thing and return them if they don't meet our expectations. But then, we really should have been doing that since day 1.

in the early 1990's some u.s. companies tried it. one i remember their planes they made but i cannot remember their name. i think they were out of ohio. they took well known kits and built and covered them and sold them as arfs. a local hobby dealer in my area sold them. he got several in his store believing they would sell. but they were very expensive!!. but the workmanship was excellent. one in particular was a .60 sig king kobra packaged as a arf. it sold for $275.00. that was a lot of money for a arf back then.
another one i remember was a company out of arizona. they used the old "sure flight" all foam kits and they glassed them and put a very nice paint job on them and sold them as arfs.. i remember their ads in the model magizines but again they were very expensive. neither company was in buisness very long. to build arfs here in the us would be a very risky and costly venture and with eguipment, labor and material costs you would not be able to manufacture them for what we pay for them now. just my opinion.

Lanier's Early ARFs (the plastic ones) are/were made in the USA. http://www.lanierrc.com/airplanes/earlyarfs.html
I don't know of any others.

Jim

lanier...i forgot about them. i used to buy their jester's for $69.00 thru tower hobbies. i had three of them. i used old k&b .61's on them.