Stixoz

G'Day all.

I'm about to put together a Seagull PC-9 and have read lots of things about these planes, mostly good but a few bad. A lot of the stuff i have read was very old and i believe they have changed a lot of things about them so some of my questions are.

1 Inverted Motor - This will be my first time with an inverted engine i will be using as OS .46 AX (Or i can get a OS .60 if you think it is needed), what precautions do i need to be aware of with this? I've read the fuel tank is mounted to high and i may need a Perry pump what ever that may be. Anything else i need to be aware of?

2 Shaft angle - I have read you "may" need to add down thrust which is what the RCU reviewer did to his, is that still needed?

3 Servos - What servos should i put in this plane? I have also heard that the push rods should be upgraded, is this true?

4 Clevises and control horns - A lot of people have said they upgraded the clevises and control horns? If this is required what do i upgrade them to?

5 Elevator/Rudder "flutter" - I have heard this can be an issue but i have no idea what to do about it?

6 Flaps/Flaperons - I land on quiet a small and pumby grass strip in central Australia, i have plenty of room for approach but need to touch down as slow as possible, i have also upgraded the wheel size on my trainers to help with this, is it worth going to the time and expense to make functioning flaps? If so are there any articles to help with this or are flaperons going to help slow me down enough? I have never used either.

7 Props - I have heard a 3 blade will help with slowing this plane down, have anyone got reccomendations on props? i would rather not use a 3 blade for cost primarily, maybe a square master airscrew prop rather than APC? I'm not looking for a super fast plane just something with plenty of torque that will fly a good knife enge, maybe a 10 X 6?

I know that is a long list but if you have any advice at all for this plane that would be great, i throw my planes around in the air pretty heavily, anything that you think should be upgraded would be greatly appreciated, i'm only new to the hobby and build my planes very slowly with lots of epoxy but that won't help if i'm going to do damage to other parts. Any general advice on building and setup would be great too, do these planes generally balance ok or should i build it tail or nose heavy when positioning batterys and fuel tanks etc.

Thanks in advance

Stix

greyfoxx

I had one of these about 4 or 5 years ago - excellent flying airplane. I did not experience any flying issues or the flutter you talked about, and it was wrung out pretty good. I do use foam model hinge tape over the hinge areas on one side of the surface as Ive been told that it will help with flutter, and also improve the responsiveness of the controls. Can't say that I can confirm that, but so far, no flutter issues.

As for the engine, I used an Irvin 53 on mine with good results. I did have to make some revisions to the tank height as that is critical and the line coming out of the tank must be no higher than even with the needle valve of the engine. If you have room, I would recommend a Perry Pump (a device that works off of crankcase pressure, via addition of a pressure fitting to the crankcase backplatep instead of muffler pressure) and you won't have to worry about tank location and the effect of flooding the engine. Make sure you have the engine low end or idle mixture adjusted properly.

I had no issues with balance with the Irvine in the front. I just moved the battery pack until I got the balance right, and as I recall, it was in the rear of the servo/receiver area.

I did not have to make any changes to the factory down thrust of the engine on mine, and used standard Futaba servos, and made no upgrades to the clevises or pushrods, and I believe I used a 10/6 two-bladed prop, and yes, if memory serves me correctly, a three bladed prop will fly the plane somewhat slower, but may hurt you on performance, and this airplane with a 53 will perform. Mine knife-edge beautifully and vertical was very, very impressive, although not quiet out of sight. Mine was the best at doing a vertical aileron roll with a tailslide finish that I've had to date. To bad that it met with an untimely fate due to a glitch and an encounter with some bushes. I do have one sitting here in a box that I hope to put together sometime.

I would recommend that you consider breaking up the color scheme on the bottom as the top and bottom look identical, making it difficult to determine if inverted or not unless you keep it very close to you.

"Experience is a hard teacher. She always gives the test first, and the lesson some time later!"

Phillip

Stixoz

Thanks mate, i don't suppose you have a photo of that foam model hinge tape? It would be good to see what it is and how you use it.

What do you recommend i use to change the colour scheme? Can i use simple spray paint or is there a nice non fuss easy way to do this? i have never played with coverings other than a few pieces of clear tape to cover small depressions or splits in the coverings.

Qld Flyer

Stix,

I have a Phoenix Tucano with an Inverted 46AX and was having a lot of dead sticks till I installed an onboard glow. It transformed the engine and no more dead sticks. You can get one from DL engines in Perth for about $60 including battery. Best investment you'll ever make.

Shane

greyfoxx

Here's what I did with my PC 9. I used monocote trim (6 in X 36 in) purchased at my LHS. It's not very expensive and has a sticky side that is protected with paper backing that must be removed. I just cut it in the shape I needed with a razor knife (or razor blade) removed the protective paper backing and stuck it to the surface after I had cleaned the surface I was applying it to with alcohol. I think you can use windex window cleaner, sprayed on the surface, to keep the trim from sticking until you have it positioned where you want it, then use a credit card to squeegy out any bubbles and windex cleaner from between the two surfaces. Let it sit over night for the windex to dry and the adhesive on the trim to attach to the covering of your airplane.

You might want to be a bit more aggressive by using a larger pattern than I did as a larger pattern would be even more noticeable from a distance.

As for the tape I use to cover the hinge lines on the control surface, it's much like clear Scotch tape, but is somewhat streatchy. I think it's made by Dubro and is "hinge tape" for foamy EP models, and is about 1 inch wide. You can also use the trim monocote I spoke of earlier as well by matching with the color used on the control surfaces. I just find the hinge tape easier to work with.

"Experience is a hard teacher. She always gives the test first, and the lesson some time later!"

flynte

I've had two of these. I had the 46AX inverted in it and never had any issues at all with the setup. The first one I had you had to put some crazy bends into the pushrods at the elevator and rudder to get them to mate to the control horns, possibly a cause for flutter that some have talked about but I never experienced it. The second one the pushrods lined right up and made for a linear install. I did add a couple 1/8" washers to the back of the top engine mount, one per side and it seemed to line it up better for my preference. Hope this helps, I have been thinking of getting another some day, but right now space is at a premium.


flynte

Stixoz

Cheers guys, so anything else i need to know about the general build of this plane? I'm pretty new at this and live about 4hrs away from my closest hobby shop so i want to try and get everything in the 1 hit and do it right, i will get an onboard glow heater and give that a go, thanks guys

Stix

Stixoz

Also what reciever and servos should i buy, i have a Hitec optic 6 transmitter and really have no idea what would be best, keeping in mind i would rather fork out a few extra dollars for something that will last me longer within reason of course.

Stix

greyfoxx

Stix - What servos and receiver you use could depend upon what you might have in mind later down the road. I used the Hitec Supreme II receiver and Hitec or Futaba standard servos worked fine on mine. If you have more ambitious plans, by all means purchase digital servos with metal gears and more power that would be suitable for a larger, more powerful model down the road, but the Futaba S3004 or Hitec H325 or H425 servo that comes with their radios will work fine, as will the standard servo that comes with the Spectrum 7 channel radio. This model does not have oversized control surfaces and is not a 3D model, and it is a 45 sized model, so the standard carbonite geared servo will work quiet well. In fact, I used the servos that came with my Futaba Skysport 6 radio (S3004).

"Experience is a hard teacher. She always gives the test first and the lesson some time later!"

show871

Man you dont need a onboard glow on a .40 size! Lets give him some good advice, just tune your motor to run well. I had one of these with a ton of high speed flights and never an issue on the airframe

If anything just try to put your fuel tank cap height pretty close to the same height as your carb

Just fly it, its a great airplane

871

flynte

I think everyone is talking a "remote" glow igniter as the engine is inverted.

flynte

show871

Talkn about this one

Yea, remote glow is great with this plane hardly any added weight.

So when you drive the 4 hrs to hobby shop get remote glow, not onboard glow!

871

Delta3

Hi Stixoz,

I have 2 of these birds and have had them set up with different engines but the servos have always been the same. I use ball bearing servos on the control surfaces and a standard servo on the throttle. The difference is in the motors. I started out with a Magnum 52 FS up front and they went ok. Then put a Thunder Tiger 54 FS at the pointy end and it went better but I had trouble with the motor. It wasn't happy inverted. Then after we bent the front wheel assembly and fitted a new Dubro setup weput a Saito 72 FS up front. This is now a much better plane andcanbe thrown about with some authority. The 52 & 54 motors were ok but not a patch on the 72.

As for the remote glo started spend $10 and buy one. They take the pain out of starting your motor and more importantly keep fingers away from spinning propellors. I am sure Garry from Hobbies Mackay would post one to you and I think the guy in Rockhampton also keeps them in stock. Either would post them to you for next to nothing. These are a terrific aircraft and you will get a lot of pleasure from it. Just make sure you set the control throws appropriately when you set it up and you will be ok. This is a plane you need to fly all the way around and then all the way down. My son and I are waiting for the 120 size PC9 which has just been released by Seagull. Comes with retracts and should be a lot of fun.

Stixoz

Ok, now i'm confused, i was planning on getting an on board glow heater, what is a remote glo heater?

I have heard that the inverted setup can be very touchy and the on board glo will help greatly with low speed idle, i'm no expert at tuning engines and figured that makes sense to me? am i wrong, should i NOT put a onboard glo heater in?

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

46ax runs fine without remote glow inverted with an OS type F plug.

I've had two of these as well, keep your power up in loops is the only thing i noticed that I could call bad. It likes to fall out of them if you don't.

I flew both of them until they were fuel soaked chunks of balsa and ply.

Ran standard Futaba 3004 servos. didn't add any shaft angle or change the mount....used stock mount to firewall.

Used all the stock hardware that came with them, clevises, horns, etc with no problems.

didn't use flaperons of any kind. It floats surprisingly well.

Ran a 10X7 two blade prop on the 46ax. Like any other plane, plan ahead let it slow and it will float.

Stixoz

Aren't the type F plugs for four strokes?

Any other general build advice or things a new guy such as myself might not pick up in the instructions?

Qld Flyer

Stix,

remote glow is basically a lead that hooks up to the glow plug at one end and an outlet that you can plug your glow driver into at the other. It enables you to place the glow driver end in an easier to access place than trying to muck around under the nose of the aircarft. It will only assist with the starting. Once you disconnect the glow driver the engine runs by itself. Onboard glow is a system with a seperate battery onboard which will power the glow plug at whatever settings you set it for.

Its true that with a properly tuned engine you can run an inverted engine without one... however if you are no expert at tuning engines, and I certainly fit into that category, they provide peace of mind knowing that if the engine's getting fuel it will keep running. I had plenty of deadsticks with my tucano until I fitted an onboard glow. None since then! For $60 it's cheap insurance and doesn't add enough weight to affect the performance at all.

flynte

As mentioned, not onboard glow but a remote glow setup. here's a link to one.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXD694&P=7

flynte

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

I use OS Type F in everything that uses a glow plug. Seem to have the best luck and the engine seem to run best with them.