2-56 hardware is plenty for a 40 size plane, as a matter of fact I remember my old four star 60 kit coming with 2-56. Maybe the rods were soft? All 60 size pattern planes used 2-56. 4-40 is only required for IMAA. In the first post the photos showed the links too far in on the horns and I bet there was no machanical advantage. That will cause flutter.

I like the mass balancers.

I just looked up the addendum. Full servo movement for full surface deflection. Do not use ATV to reduce travel except on throttle! That info was common knowledge when I was younger. Now there is not enough mentoring, just buy and fly.

No Sir! Respectfully speaking, you have no grounds to assume I had a lack of mentoring or knowledge of the subject matter. I have been building airplanes from kit form since i was in grade school. I had a 72 year old man who taught me (AKA Grandpa). Furthermore i have been involved with three RC clubs in my area since before i could fly. Granted that has only been over two years! Last, your addition of these OPINIONS has no bearing on the subject matter. The real issue here is this ARF is labeld "performance series". Perhaps you could tell me why this is so? I really think it is a marketing strategy.

I also have to wonder where your motivation came from to become involved in this thread. In your reply if you choose to we will further delaborate on this matter if you would like.

I saw the photos and as soon as I saw where you located the control horn clevis it screamed flutter to me. I've been building and flying r/c since 1974, control line before that. Why did you have the linkage so far in on the control surface?

Also,

I owned the earlier GP300s 40 size and had a Saito 91 in it. It was a great flying plane. The performance series is a lighter version with larger control surfaces.

I remember people complaining about the Funtana 90 fluttering when it first came out. Looking at the photos if the FUntana it was clear the plane had not been assembled properly and the wrong servos were used in the wings.

My motivation comes from not wanting to see a product spoken poorly of because someone didn't know how to hook up linkages for proper mechanical advantage. Your mentors should have told you about this.

Just wondering here..................If I was designing ARF planes and selling them to the public, I would definitely let my customers know if the type of servos, placement of push rods and setup in general could cause flutter or failure. This was my 4th build, and the previous three allowed for huge control movements with standard servos; never was there an issue with flutter. If a design is susceptible to these issues, the customer should be advised. This is why Tower hobby, by request of Great Planes is including a servo setup in this Extra..........in the future.

ANY plane with large control surfaces and improper setup is prone to flutter. The servos stripping speaks volumes. If they were metal gear they wouldn't have stripped, if the linkage was set up better nylon gears wouldn't have stripped.

Make sure you don't step on the top rung of the ladder and don't set the cruise control and leave the wheel to make coffee while driving down the road in the Winnabago.

Tower, Hobbico, Great Planes, they are all owned by the same company.

MLKISSEL - I was was just wondering if you opened you cowling up and to let air flow pass through? I am going to run and AX 55 but didn't want it to over heat if I didn't get enough air flow.....

I must grant that the major components are indeed top knotch and should not be spoken poorly of. The fuse, tailfeathers and wing are top knotch! That is why i am making my point that the hardware is -for the lack of a better word- chinsey. also it is inferrior to other arfs on the market in the price range. GP needs to step up to the plate here and realize that many moddlers who demand performance (as this is a key marketing term) are throwing away the pushrods and replacing them. maybe they could produce an "upgrade kit" that includes carbon fiber gear, better pushrods, control horns, servo arms, etc... I

You must understand that i no longer expect a replacement, I have pleaded my case with hobby services, tower, and GP. I am now more motivated to help others avoid an end result such as mine. The hobby is under increasing scrutiny as far as safety goes.

Also I do grant your point about mechanical advantage. Alot of people do not understand it as well as others and need to be aware of this. It is a good thing that GP released the amendum. To bad i did not get it in my kit!

My argument simply put for clairification purposes:

1. The hardware is not up to par to the model's performance capabilities.
2. The airframe is marketed to compete in sales with other arfs that have far superior hardware already included.
3. Great Planes knows about this issue and does not care to do anything about it but throw in an amendum to cover their @$$.

Yes I did add some vents on the bottom of the cow. The can be seen on the previous page of photos, be careful though, I tuned the engine with the cow off, and with the cow on, it get a bit warmer before i realized it. when I accelerated it to full throttle to check again, it misfired and spun the prop off. Better keep it rich until its up to temp.

I'm sorry about your plane and I do see you point.

yo kissel i think you may want to put the plastic spinner in storage for another plane and get a annodized blue or yellow spinner from truturn. i never use plastic spinners/backplates on 4 strokes... plus i tighten the first nut with a wrench so it isnt coming off then snug up the locknut tight. I think blue would be cool on this airplane but i was thinking yellow would be sweet if it matched. JMHO

You are so right, my tru-turn spinner showed up today! Unfortunately I went with S.S. I think its kind of classic for aerobatic airplanes.....than again, I'm getting old. The plastic ones do not hold up. While I was tuning things up I was too lean on throttle up and I spun the prop off and shattered the spinner. I had another on to stick on for tuning. Now that the tru-turn is here, it will go back in the box. Thanks for the advice though.....

I have always been partial to a nice stainless Steel spinner.................

i bet you its made of aluminum...polish it and youll see your reflection in it!

i guess it could be aluminum, thought that might be a bit soft for a spinner. Must be some sort of alloy..... They do shine up nice though.

FLUTTER - I haven't had any problem with flutter using the stock hardware. I don't do 3D yet, but have put this thing through some hard manoeuvres, like continuous snap rolls & loops, without any in-flight problems other than my 55AX dying on me. I did bump my wing aileron at the airfield a couple of times on crowded days into a post and the control rod bent. It happened a second time on the other wing putting it into my trunk. So, I replaced them both with new 2-56 rods bent & cut to fit, but sleeved them with carbon fiber tubes (epoxied in place). I used the DuBro 2-56 Heavy Duty Clevis with Secure Clips just to make sure nothing comes off when I install a more powerful engine. I still used the stock plastic quick link on the bend end. The rudder & elevators are still stock connections and the servos are in the battery/receiver compartment.

thanks for the reply, my second build of the 300sp had upgraded hardware and have been flying for a month now without any problems. Running a Saito 82 and could use a bit more power. Pulling with an APC 14x6.

Your electronics craped out and you blame the company that built the plane and engine???
HMMMM sounds like you are trying to sell something....

It seems that most need to use the furthest position on the control horns to get MAX throws....
Same on their entire .50 size glow planes...

Exp. The Reactor .46.
I have the model but you cannot get max throw with the bevel they have on this model.
I had to cut wood to get the correct bevel to allow enough through (50 deg) to do 3d properly...
My point is, most people that have the Reactor do not get the necessary throw for 3d, and there for do not use the Lowest Control horn position
Because they do not need too
If the bevels were cut greater, then most would HAVE to use the lower position with the stock FUtaba servo horns (ridiculously short they need to update those things)
We would then see many issues with flutter....

2- things need to happen..
GP needs to supply dif. rods with there kits and or specify the use of longer servo horns (1inch or more)
Futaba needs to get with the times and have realistic servo horn lengths..
300oz servo with a 3/4inch servo horn??/ alrighty then....!

I all fairness to Great planes...:::
If you look at the competition...they do NOT EVEN ALLOW you to attatch the control wire to the control
horn in any other position other then the very HIGHEST TIP of the control horn...

Easy fix.... One then HAS TOO use a lONG servo control horn...

Great planes has always taken care of me... I think they gave you a fair assesment of your plane and the crash...
THe flutter occured do to a too low of attachement on the control horn..

i do not see why they didn't replace the plane for you...being they have always taken care of there customers...
Always gone WAAAYYY out of there way for me...

Always be a customer of theres...

well heres an update to this thread:

it has been 2 1/2 years since this crap took place for me. I have boycotted all of the tower catalog and i still get it. It is quite entertaining; i wonder how much they'll spend on me to try to get me to buy again. simply pathetic...

It pleasures me to see how hobby king has become a giant and is reaming their rear end! Sad but true! I do not buy HK stuff and i believe in supporting the companies/distributors here in the states. There have been times i wanted to buy from Great Planes, but with the bad taste still in my mouth, I look elsewhere.

Guys, please dont get me wrong. All that GP had to do (and still could) is replace the arf. A customer of theirs i still could be, down the road.

Until then, every funfly, trip to other fields, or forum post i will caution people to spend their money in a wiser fashion.

I have that airplane OP. I havent built it, I am passing it on but I did go over the structure

1) Its very lightly built. So no speeding
2) Replace the stock pushrods. GP sometimes bundles the cheapest stuff. Go with 4-40 pushrods and ball links both sides. They are a bit heavier but will reduce flutter a lot
3) Seal the hinge gaps. Air leaking from below to above the hinge gap often contributes to flutter. You can use clear packing tape and only on the bottom side if you want

Remember its a 3D airplane, needs to be flown like one

Ameyam