Smokey, I think that would have to be something for me to look into after i get the prototypes rolling/done. and see what I can come up with. I will for surely keep that in mind tho when i start on these...... give me some feed back on my ideas about the 3 kits im looking at here. the 68", 77", and the 48% 105 incher...



Thanks John
WFO Ultimate's

P-40E WarHawk....I think the 68" will be good for a 40 to 50 cc engine. There should be a market for that. For example the GP Pitts sells real well and is perfect for that engine size. The 77" I think will be too small. Kinda stuck in the middle. Probably good for a 60cc but too small for an 80cc. Something in the 80" or so range will probably be good. Reasonable enough in size to be transported in a decent size vehicle without the use of a trailer. The 105" one will be basically for the rich. I don't think the common man can afford it and all the things that go with it. But each his own. My personal opinion.

Smokey

I'll admit to lurking, but I thought you had all of the feedback vis-a-vis 50cc sized Ultimates that you needed.

There are a several engine choices in the 50cc size with DA, ZDZ, BME, and Brison coming to mind. This is a nice and competitive segment of the engine market that should make many good engine choices, at reasonable prices, available. Stick to nothing bigger than an Ultimate that will have wild 3D capability on one of the strong 50cc engines.

Also, make the stabs removeable for easy storage and transport. That may mean no external tail bracing... Also, ensure that it can be transported in a normal sized SUV, e.g. Ford Explorer, Dodge Durango, etc. I think that would make the max fuselage length 82-84 inches with the spinner. A removeable rudder would help keep the transport and storgate length down too...

As already mentioned one servo per aileron and airfoil shaped stabs and rudder would be nice.

I don't care much if it's made from foam or a built up structure. I just want it to be light and strong. I want models that are built to fly -- not to survive crashes. When I want something durable I'll throw together a SPAD...

I guess that's about it for now....

i thought i had already mentioned 70in for 50cc and one for 80cc engines since those are the most popular? well, put my vote for that..

anyways, no airfoiled stab. the real one doesnt have one! but to each his own..

Okay guys! we're getting some good ideas here.... and Now is the time to give your .02s on these as I will be taking the latest ideas/drawings I have to my plan drawer for the all new 68" and 80" on FRIDAY! so get your ideas in before 12 midnight thrusday! after that...thats it for wants and ideas! sorry guys but if i want to make prototype and ordering dead lines for you guys before & by X-mas these need to get done! meaning if everything goes to plan and prototypes fly/handle/3D like i want them too, I will start taking orders mid/late Dec.! but i will let you all know when i give the go-a-head for ordering! aswell as full ordering details!

Okay now that thats out of the way down to business! I have gottin a few requests for removeable tails (rudder/elevator)....this would work or can be done but please note that (I think) it may make the tail of the airplane weaker.. so I have come up with a couple different ideas on this.....The first of the 2) is...4 6-3/2 bolts that bolt down the elevator stab to the fuse under the Rudder for a clean no boltish goddy look, then the Rudder will have 2 front end dowels that will slip into the fuse at the Turtledeck and have 2 6-3/2 bolts that bolt it down to the fuse under the elevator stab.(just an idea)

and the 2nd idea is a full 1 piece tail that bolts down to the fuse under the elevator stab (like the H9 kit) and 2 more that bolts down the Rudder below the elevator.... Im going to build 2 mach ups of these ideas before thrusday! As always if you can come up with something better please give it to me!

ahhh yes, as for the Airfoil'd tails........ im sorry but im not going to do these on any of the 3 kits... as stated before the full size doesnt have them. maybe later sometime next year I will dig into this idea but not right now....maybe this will be something for Gen-2 of the WFO Ultimate's? if i even make em that long I hope im still doing these but with out Customers and a want/need for these i will be SOL! so who knows


Thanks John
WFO Ultimate's

If I were to design an Ultimate bipe that would sell I'd make it;

Around 65" or 64" span (perfect for 50cc ,but option to install lighter 40cc or 60cc for macho's), not bigger, Godfrey has a perfect 70" Ultimate for the ZDZ 80 or 3W 75.
Quality kit and ARF for those who like either one,
Laser or CNC cut balsa and (lite) Ply (make it light and strong)
Choice of CNC cut foam or built up wood wing,
Quality fiberglass cowl, wheelpants, landing gear and canopy (Stans fiberglass?),
The option quality hardware (Style R/C City) included or not,
Try to make it as scale as possible but have a proven testflyer to help you to design a perfect flying bipe.
Have a peak at the Godfrey Ultimate and Bigairplanes Pitts 12 !
Don't start selling unless you are ready to ship !

Remember, there are no shortcuts , to be on top you have to be the best!

All the luck ,
Bruno.

One more thought on the wingspan. Im most instances it is the size if the FUSE that gives the appearance of a large plane more so than the wingspan. The GP Pitts is the perfect example of a plane with only a 68" wing, but because of the large fuse it looks much bigger. The AeroMaster is the opposite. It too has long wings, but because of the "skinny" fuse, it looks much smaller on the ground and especially in the air. A must for a "special" plane is that it has GOT TO MAKE A STATEMENT IN THE AIR-- even if it is just flying a stright line.

I would love to have a removable tail because it would make transportation to and from the field much easier for me. I think the hangar 9 design would be the one to go with because you could install flying wires and not have to take them off everytime you took the tail off. I think 72" length would be about right with a wing span in the 67-68" area. This may need to be scaled down a tiny bit more as others have suggested to maybe 66" wingspan to save a little more weight.

You should have an optional hardware kit made of high quality parts that includes everything except radio gear and the engine so that when someone starts building this thing he does't have to go to the LHS 3 or 4 times for the small little things.
I would want ailerons on mine to be sticking out of the wing. It may not look as nice but I've never seen a setup for in wing servos that was a strong as just using 2 servo rails.

Again rudder servo position should be optional either it's something you ask your costumers before you build the plane or you make the aircraft so that the rudder servo could be installed in either position during final assembly.

This thread is getting really interesting.

James

One thing I've noticed about guys, planes and engines, there's never too much power! H9 Funtanas w/1.00s, CG Utlimates w/1.80s, 80cc planes with 100s. Design your Ultimates for 40cc and 80cc and they'll be flying with 50s and 100s... I'll take a kit in both sizes! Good Luck and thanks for asking!

As far as 'removable surfaces', couldn't these be drawn in on the plans as 'options'?

TGP

I would really like to hear some other ideas on the removeable tail stabs before friday witch day after tomorrow!

As for the 68" Ulitmate, i think you guys are going a little over board with the size. an inch or 2 off the wings isnt going to make a whole hell of alota difference here....but thats my opinion on it I can do whatever you guys feel is best...as for size of the fuse you will be looking at about 70-72 inchs.

Customer will get all hardwear that is need to make flyable...only things you will not get is fuel system/smoke systems, Radio and engine/prop/spinner. everything else will come with your WFO Ultimate ARC/ARF kits. However I will gladly add in the fuel system/smoke systems to the order of your WFO Ultimate ARC/ARF airplane and set it up for you when I build your WFO Ultimate...


Thanks John
WFO Ultimate's

P-40E WarHawk
My 30% ultimate arrived yesterday from bob godfrey, they have pre cut the fuse sides for 2 degrees of positive incidence. With my Dave Patrick running 1.5 of positive this must be something that is really needed on a ultimate. Hate for you to go thru heart ache with out it.

They are using flying wires on everything so that they could make the parts thinner. The wings, tail and rudder are foam. All of those parts are very thin. I would guess it will only be about 3/8 of an inch on the fin, tail, rudder after sheeting. We are talking very thin so wire are def. needed on this deal. The wings are of a 4 piece design. The wings will not have any sheeting in the middle of the foam and will run cap strips this is a new one for me. The plane has some good hardware like skylights wheels and things that I will actually use.

I love an ultimate so I have been trying to give any feed back I can to make this process go as painless as possible.

Hi Everyone,

I'm the one that wrote the review posted earlier in this thread and still have the plane. Don Lowe himself commented on how well it flies. My kit had relatively heavy wood throughout, and the engine box design is way overbuilt. I did quite a bit to lighten it but there's alot more that could be done. I made some recommendations to Ohio RC but unfortunately they went out of business. I'm convinced the plane could be built significantly lighter, at least 1 and maybe 2 pounds. Even at its current weight a ZDZ80 would fly it really well. A lighter version would fly well with a ZDZ60, DA50, etc. I heard that Dick Hansen was building the same kit with an attempt to lighten it up. He's a master at that so I'm really curious to see his final weight.

krayzc, glad to hear you got your Ultimate! I hope you like how it builds and flys! please keep me posted on buildup if there is anything i can help you with let me know!

every Ultimate i have built i added some positive to the elevator and some negitive on the top wing this really makes a big differece on how the airplane flys! hope that helps


mpoole, glad to meet ya! nice to hear from someone who has flown/built a gas Ultimate! and as stated before i think you did a really good job on the review! I to agree with some updated building ways and ideas I think i can make the 68" Ultimate liter then what you have......but never know till you start diggin into it



Thanks John
WFO Ultimate's

PS FYI's tomorrow is the FRIDAY DEAD LINE!!

Well I must say its been fun but I was PMed a bit ago saying that this thread will be taken down. as im not a advertiser and this thread is an advertisement sorry guys my bad for not knowing the "rules" anyways if anyone would like to have up dates on these then you can only do so via email. Thanks again.




Thanks John.....

hmmm guess my thread didnt get locked


anyways Update!!!! the first set of wings should be done in a week maybe 2 weeks! I went ahead and went with foam wings to help on weight (not that i think it will be a problem) but they are a little faster to build up and every little bit helps.... should have the 68" framed up with in a months time! I will be posting pics with in a few days!

Why the 15 sized Ultimate designed by Fred Reese and kitted by Ace.

I love this thing. It flies great with an O.S. .25fx.

P-40E WarHawk
glad u and I/we are not locked out i have started mine pics can be seen under projects on the below link:

http://members.cox.net/krayzc/

http://members.cox.net/krayzc/30%25_ultmate.htm

wow! great job so far! looks like its a pretty straight forward kit to build yes? Im also looking at not using flying wires on all 3 of my kits. maybe only on the 48% i will but i will cross that road when i get to it please keep me posted on your buildup!

Yeah, flying wire on the wings is what really sucks I can deal with the tail but the wings that is going to take 20-30 minutes I bet each time to install, and around 10 minutes to disassemble on this kit. the front part is curved around f-1 so you can't to the framing square part on that deal. ....

Well the first prototypes are being CNC cut as we speak! foam wings and all. I should have the first kits in my hands at the first of the month if not sooner! I will post pics as soon as i get all 3 kits in my hands



Thanks John
WFO Ultimate's

Off Topic...

Who's the hotty in your avitar?

Sorry for the long delays in replys etc. but I've been away for awhile and been very busy! I'm back home now ready to rock and roll on these things

Hey Guys,
How about a Zimpro Ultimate almost as big as the Ohio and Bigger than the CG I have one with a supertiger 2500 and it kick major butt the absolute best plane i've ever flown. (JM2C)

Josh

well boys i have dropped my cowl, wheel pants, and turtle deck off for a friend to paint so it wont be long my graphics should be arriving soon and i will be posted pic in about 2-4 weeks.

as promised here are the painted parts: