TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Please put a cheap motor in it before you fly it. Please.........................

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

LOL,
Man, that's funny!

!

Steven H

I bought one of these when they first came out. Fell in love with their looks. Love soon turned to love hate.

First flight: Took off, very hard to control on all axis. Let it dive a little after trimming somewhat. Alerons fluttered and lost upper and lower from left side. Landed safely. Added servo in each wing. Played with cg alot, flew quite a bit. always a ***** to land, you had to have you approach speed just right. To slow it would snap and do a 24 point landing. (cartwheel) Too fast it would end up on its back and break the vertical. finally crashed after a dead stick. These planes glide like a rock.

plane #2 (I know, I like self abuse)

Lightened tail, crammed all on board gear as far forward as possible. Including servos. Used solid alum. landing gear. Mini servo in each wing. Flies better, but is still a handfull. My heart is beating everytime I land this this thing. I honestly thought I could make this plane fly well, but I really don't think that it is possible. The plane looks great, but that about all you can say for it. It hangs in tha hanger most of the time, I fly it once in a great while if I feel like scaring myself. It is very satisfying everytime I bring it home in one piece!!!

djlyon

Geez, got back from Yosemite and watched the wind blow for 2 days. This morning bloomed bright, cool and calm. Time to fly. Got to the field and started fueling the bipe. Fuel started poring out the bottom. Take the plane apart and find another split tank. A new Pylon brand tank split at the stopper and I hadn't even started the engine. I guess I could have tightened the screw to much but it's never happened to me before. I think Murphy is on the side of this plane. Thankfully I fuel proofed the inside of the plane including the radio compartment. Maybe tomorrow. YOU ARE GOING TO FLY SUCKER, MURPHY or NO MURPHY.

tinman67

Flew mine twice pretty scary. I'm stripping the gear and putting it in a new Top cap. And hang the bipe in the kids room. It flew OK kind of pitch sensitive though. Its just too pretty to smash up. I'm going to A fly in tomorrow and fly my 1/4 scale Great lakes .It too is pitch sensitive but somehow I make I make it up and down. Good luck on yours. Tom

djlyon

This story is titled " Live and Never learn"

Saturday morning I finally got 2 flights on the Great Lakes Bipe. The first lasted about 1 second and the second about 10 minutes. The plane didn't fly as poorly as I expected and one flight is certainly not enough for conclusions, but I certainly can't recommend it. It's a challenge that may become easier as I get more flights on it. If your not pretty comfortable at flying almost anything I wouldn't recommend this. I can empithize with those who have decided to make the cute little thing an ornament.

On the first attempt at takeoff, the plane rotated violently to the left just as it got in the air and hit the ground on its wheels. Skinned up a wing tip and folded the tail wheel but didn't break the prop. I thought snap roll at first but I'm not sure. For the second take off I added a little right rudder and aileron trim. The plane tracked down the runway and didn't get swervy until the ground speed was quite high (like many tail draggers). A touch of elevator and she was climbing out. She seemed a bit touchy on the ailerons. The YS63 was hauling it to high airspeed and altitude in a hurry. I pulled back to half throttle, leveled it out put in a couple of clicks of up trim and it was groving. It's fast even at 1/2 throttle and sencitive to elevator and aileron around neuteral. Loops, stalls and rolls were all clean. Didn't see any tendency to snap roll except the first take off. finally headed in for a landing. The plane came in straight and clean with good control all the way down but kind of fast. Every thing looked good till just before touch down when I ran out of up elevator. Bouncy, bouncy landing. Folded the tail wheel wire again so I decided that flimsy thing needed to be change before I flew it again. I don't need to have it causing problems during takeoff. Overall not bad for one flight. I could learn to like the little bullit. This is tuff to call with one flight but right now I'm thinking nose heavy and in need of exponential.

But Murphy was still lurking, looking for an opertunity he knew would come.
I was also helping a newcomer setting up and flying his trainer and helping him set up a new engine in another plane. I gradually hurrying, becoming careless and making serious mistakes and only partially realizing it. Murphy watched and hid in the little bipe. Finally it was time to go home. I defueled the little bipe, Disconnected the fuel lines and readied to start the engine to run the fuel out of the crank case.
Later that afternoon the doctor assured me I wouldn't loose my left thumb but I would probably loose most of the feeling in it. After she put 10 stitches in it she said it should just fine in a few weeks.
So it will probably be a little while till I fly anything or at least unill next Wednesday. I Knew I should never have gotten rid of my old single stick radio

djlyon

THE REST OF THE STORY

Four days after nearly cutting my thumb off again I flew one of my pattern planes and discovered that if you have no feeling in your thumb you don't know what's happening with the rudder and as I moved the throttle I was moving the rudder quite a lot without knowing it. Even increasing the stick tension didn't help.
Started learning to fly with index finger and thumb. Spent a lot of time flying my Balsa Nova and Pizazz. After a couple of months some feeling came back into my thumb and I felt comfortable flying anything again.

So two Saturdays ago I took the Great Lakes out again. Every thing went fine. Stalls looked like the thing might be nose heavy but inverted flight said it wasn't. I let the rate of descent get to high on landing and broke the gear.
The following Tuesday I tried again. I set up a good approach with a little power on and a nice AOA. Everything looked good till the mains touched the ground. The nose popped up as usual. The plane rolled and caught a wing tip then went on its nose. The engine and firewall popped out without breaking any wood, just glue joints.
I pulled my engine and radio out and gave the plane to a fellow club member.
I think this plane can be landed but probably has a very tight envelop of airspeed, AOA and rate of descent for success.
If I were still in Georgia flying off the old sod farm I would have stuck with it maybe. But here I'm flying off black top and I figure it would never survive the 10 to 20 flights it might take to figure out how to land this thing.
Like a boat I was glad when I got it and glad when I got rid of it.
Sure was a cute little thing though.

Mikie

I've had several Modeltech ARC's, my favorite by far being the Dragon Lady (wish I could find one). So when I got my Great Lakes I had high expectations. I spent A LOT of time on it. I covered it with 21st Century Fabric and did the best job I've done in 35 years of modeling. As I began installing the engine (TT .46) and radio gear, I realized quickly that I was going to have balance problem. So I did what everybody does--I moved all the gear forward, used a Higley heavy prop nut, and put about 5 oz. of lead in the cowling.
Then I went to fly it. Everything everyone has said about it is true. You really have to on top of this one to fly it and make it look like you are in control. It's a real chore! I can land it fine. I just need to power it in. But it's like an unguided missile in the air. You never know exactly what it's going to do, even with the same control input! And the reactions to control are extremely speed sensitive. And I hate flying it except for the fact that it looks so pretty in the air. But right now it looks pretty suspended in the air from the ceiling in my basement.

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

Another hideho to all,

Like I said before, I have never heard a good word about this plane other than it makes a purty hangar queen...

To much time and effort to make it worth it...

I like a challenge as much as the next guy...but this plane is clearly a dawg of momentous proportions.

Lloyd

My Feedback: (1)

You guys are really depressing me. I've still got two of these to finish! And, you're not giving me any incentive to do so. How come no one knows why these planes don't fly well? The name alone can't be the cause! While I can accept that the machine is flawed, I don't understand why these flaws can't be addressed and corrected besides tossing the entire plane. No one seems to be able to identify what the problems are. Where are the expert problem solvers when you need them? Guess I've got an adventure to look forward to, eh?

How much rash can a Great Lakes have before it's not so great anymore? News at 11.

And, I'm having problems with an Aeromaster Too!

Wish I had a wind tunnel...

Cheers,
Lloyd

tinman67

I flew mine twice and hung it up. What a dissapointment..

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

Problem solvers, you ask?

Well, I was the 3rd or 4th owner of the one that I had...it had been repaired beautifully and was set up per the instructions.

I then had the pleasure to watch two of them try to fly with "pros" at the sticks. Not funny. Try to stay ahead of it, then catch up, then hold your breath for landing.....then do the minor repairs to get it back up...It's just a bad plane, design, and implementation of an otherwise good flying full scale plane.

Just how much dorking around to just make it fly is it worth to you?

Sell yours, cut your losses quick, that's my advice.

I sold mine for a 50% loss and was darn glad to get it. Beats the heck outta turning it back to balsa dust and tossing it in the can, doncha you think?

Best to you all,
Mike

scottrc

Although this post was a year ago, I too have one of these that some wisecrack sold me. I tried the recommended .40 and it just waddled down the runway for about a mile. Stuck a .46 on it and it broke ground, this is when I found how poorly set up this plane was. Tough little sucker, did cartwheels down the entire length of the 800' runway without a scratch. In fact, that day, we purposely flew it to see how many cartwheels it could do before the top wing would come off.
Was looking through a copy of MA one day, cant' remember what issue, and saw two of these flying, actually in the air! I got the guy's e-mail through AMA and found out he and his buddy stuck on a Rossi .61 with a tuned pipe.
I stuck an enya .61 with a tuned pipe from one of my pattern ships on mine, adjusted the CG, and for once it flew with a little more confidence. Your comment about the top wing being upside down may explain why mine will fly level inverted but need 6 clicks up elevator in normal attitude.
Final note, throw away the landing gear and bolt on some sturdy aluminum gear into a solid block. The gear on mine kept moving which really made for quite a show when waddling down the runway.

chippie

Hi Guys, I know this thread is really old, but I have a bit of extra information on this plane. I inherited one from a fellow club member here in Oz, that had only had 2 flights - only 1 landing though! It went into a dive when the motor cut, and couldn't be pulled out. I got it in several pieces and put it back together, as per the original instructions, and found that it needed the 1lb lump of lead that came with it on the end of the motor mount, to get it to balance as per instructions.

I managed to get hold of a couple of magazine reviews from when it came out, and a couple of things in there, plus a couple of weird things in the manual, led me to believe that the C.G. given in the manual had to be wrong. I've now bolted it all together, with no mods at all, chucked 2 ounces of lead on the firewall to make up for the cowl which didn't survive, and ended up with a C.G. just over an inch further aft than the instructions recommend. I flew it on the weekend, and it seems just a touch too tail heavy. I'm thinking the C.G. needs to come forward about 1/4" at the most - way off the recommended.

Anyway, it flew pretty well - fairly gentle stall, nice low speed cruise. It was just a little touchy on the Elevators, due to being a touch tail heavy, and also changed its' pitch to nose high as the fuel burnt off. I think they'll both clear up with a minor adjustment. All I've got mounted in it is a brand new Magnum 52 four stroke, and it pulls along just fine.

I think it's a great little plane, just a couple of errors in the manual. If anybody wants to resurrect theirs, I'd be happy to measure and post the exact C.G. of mine, and I'll let you know how she goes when I've fine tuned her.

P.S. This is only my second plane since my trainer - so I'm no expert flyer!!!

Regards,
Chippie.

Perth, Western Australia.

scottrc

I'm interested, please post.

Cabane

My Feedback: (2)

Yea, post measurement. Mine has been a closet queen for 2 years. Might have to drag it out.

Steven H

Please keep us posted, ready to make her better

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

AARRRGGG,
And a fine closet queen she makes, Matey

Steven H

Well I dusted mine off and took it along to our annual fun fly at my club. I sat it out and looked at it for a couple of hours while I was flying my other planes. Finally got my nerve up and gassed her up. It has not been started in well over a year. Just touched it with the starter and the os .70 4 stroke came right to life, just as if it had been fine tuned yesterday. Took her up, got her trimmed, did a few basic moves, have to say that ole Great Lakes was looking pretty good. Then it came time to land. Set up,it looked like it was going to be perfect. Then wham: over on herback, business as usual!! oh well, I won't worry about it until next year!

Steve H

derferic

My Feedback: (32)

My Gt. Lakes Special has a Magnum 52 FS that supplies plenty of power. It weighs 6# 4 oz, which makes the wing loading higer than I would like. This means keeping the speed up; it doesn't like to fly particularly slow. However, the aircraft flies very nicely, has no bad habits. Landings and take offs are well behaved.

I like what Hans Meij did for balancing. My aircraft needs 3 oz of ballast at the front of the cowl with the battery next to the tank.

The incidences came out initially, with respect to the stab, -1 deg on the lower and -2 deg on the upper wing. So I shimmed the aft part of the lower wing mount to increase incidence to 0 degrees. I added a flat washer under the wing at the front mount, which gave -0.5 degree. This configuration is common on biplanes.

Engine thrust is set at 0 deg vertical and 3 degrees right.

Because the aircraft is so short coupled, I keep the control throws small. I can do all of the precision pattern maneuvers and the types of maneuvers the aircraft was designed to perform.

My gripe is the number of design flaws. Ii had to replace the aileron servo with a small servo in each wing to eliminate flutter. The landing gear came loose after several flights due to the soft aluminum clamps; I replaced those with steel clips from the hardware store. The tail controls have excessive hysteresis because the control rods are not adequately supported. I am working on a solution for that.

It is finally becoming an airplane that I want to keep for a while.

lownloud

hi all, I dont know how this forum works but in my hotrod one guys need to post an intro first... if that is the case I am sorry and will do that. However, I just got a Great Lakes Bipe and want to know what the C of G is on those like the post above mine that flew well. I just want to fly it..... I mean come on, look at how good it looks! it cant be all that bad

Please tell me the C of G and I will give you guys a flight report... good, bad, or trash can!
Paul

scottrc

That plane's cut little looks are DECIEVING! It is the devils child in disquise! I finally got rid of mine by selling it off after flying it for four stressfull years. The CG changes on this little monster as it flies. The best way to fly it is with some 8lb tess line, two hangars, and a roof rafter.

Sorry about all this negativity, but I fought this little buggar for a few years, got it to fly well, but EVERY time it seemed either the wing incedence or the CG changed. Also, it's unpredictable flight characteristics get worse when a gusty x-wind comes up.

Scott

Hans Meij

Used a COG as per instruction 3 3/4"
I have seen many try to balance a biplane by holding it at the given positon on the top wing.
Even if the COG is half a inch of it will hang a bit of horizontally. And this plane will behave badly if it is off by half a inch.
Try to find the corresponding point on the bottom wing and balance it there. When the COG is right and the weight is around 2750 gramms it will fly OK.
It will still be a short coupled biplane with a high wingloading but giving that character there is nothing wrong with it. As with any other plane, there is never magic involved to let it behave good or bad.

djlyon

Just reading this again makes my thumb hurt.

lownloud

Hans, thank you so much for the help. by moving the battery forward and shims on the motor mount, I dont need much weight! I will fly it this weekend and tell you all how it goes. The guy I got it from flew the hell out of it and it had like 12 oz. in the nose.
I dont know.... it will be interesting

thanks again Hans