OMG What have I done? I just bought one of these on ebay!

Any more thoughts on whether it actually flies? I was thinking of putting an ASP 52 4 stroke in it....

ok, here's my flight report.

Hans is absolutely right, battery on the motor mount and shim the motor forward so that only a little weight is needed. I balanced mine at 3 3/4 inches from the leading edge of the top wing.
It flies like a dream! the horizontal stab is manufactured wrong and if you just slide it in and try to fly it, it will probably fly like crap. Mine needed almost no trim and it flies fast and straight.

Rundown:

Take offs are a *****. I'm not going to lie, this little bipe has serious problems going straight down the runway. I am going to change the landing gear because the ones they give you are a joke.... oh, and give it more tow-in and it should track a little better

flight is awesome. It will do anything you want even with the little .46 I have in it. I dont know if I have ever flown anything that went inverted better.

Stalls are even. Right over the nose with no tip or wing stalling at all. None. It simply noses over

Landings were slower than I thought based on all the bad mouthing on this thread. It comes in slow and predictable. With low weight and good CofG the plane can really fly slow.

I have five long flights on it and I am not going to trade it in anytime soon. Guys, I hate to say it but with a few small changes and some clever placement of weight....... It flies great! Not to mention how good it looks in the air. Let's face it, flying a small bipe is'nt easy but this one really should get another chance.

Oh, three other guys at the field flew it and one of them owns the kit but never built it based on it's reputation.


I forgot my camera so I will snap some shots next week.
Thanks again Hans.
Paul

OK mine (when I get it) is the ARC version and is still NIB.

Lownloud,
You said the horizontal stab is manufactured wrong, what did you do to correct this?
Can you by any chance give a complete list of the changes you made?

Thanks...

Does the picture below look familiar?

Yeah, thats the kit.

I bought the plane built from a guy I fly with. The rear stab incedence was all wrong according to him. He is an engineer and a very good builder. Just look at it and I guess it's pretty obvious. The leading edge of the rear stab is higher than the trailing edge.....

Dont just dump weight on it to balance it, take the time to move stuff foreward.

throw the landing gear in the trash, balance it right, and change the rear stab angle, and you have a really good flying plane. Everyone of all skill levels (even a Jack***** like me) flew it today and everyone loved it.

I dont make this stuff up.

Thanks, I don't feel so bad about it now. I'll make sure I'll take a good look at it when it arrives..

It's arrived!!

Gotta give UPS some credit, no outside packing, just in the box you see above and everything is perfectly intact!

Looks like figuring out which way up the top wing goes is going to be a problem. No dihedral and (almost?) symmetrical airfoil.

I'm also not so sure about the engine now, they say 46-53 2 stroke and the addendum says .61-70 4 stroke..... I might have to spring for another Saito 72.......

Did it fly or did it crash?

Steve H

Neither, it's still in the box

Based on the addendum that came with it, I bought an OS70 4 stroke which I flew in my LT-40 for a while.

I got a Kyosho Tiger Moth for Christmas and just finished it a week ago. I've been having problems with that, so I don't think I'll tackle the Great Lakes just yet.....

I too fell for the looks of this plane, I spent lots of time doing a nice covering job and then read some
negative posts about it. i added two inches to the front end and lightend the tail, installed a K&B 48, put
the radio gear as far forward as possible. the plane came out pretty light, and balanced on the spot, but still
its not a good flyer. Worst bipe I flew and I have about 10 Bipes. Just not worth the time and effort!!!

Hello All,
Well, I have had one of these waiting for me to put it together for a while now. After reading everything in here, I got rather scared to take the time to build the thing! Anyway, after I read everything from you all, I emailed Modeltech. This is the exact reply from them and it solves a lot of these problems.




Indeed it has been out of production for some time and according to which version you have, the directions could be wrong...

CG should be in front of the rear center cabane about 1/4 inch.

We highly recommend ditching the aileron torque rods and using individual servos mounted in the lower wing.

Swiss-cheese the tail and rear portion of the fuselage (or as I like to say...give it a Dremel-diet).

Move the servos in the fuselage to the forward bay.

Use a stronger gear.

Make sure you have ample air exit cooling for the engine.

Top wing should have negative 1 degree incidence as compared to the bottom.

I flew it with a 46 two stroke. Most customers were using a 61-70 four stroke.

Get all that stuff dialed in and it is really fun. If it's "off" then it will be not much fun...

-Mike

Customer Service
18480 Bandilier Cir
Fountain Valley CA 92708

Customer Service Ph: 714-963-0329 (9AM-3PM M-F)
Customer Service Fx: 714-964-6236
Email: [email protected]
Orders: 800-854-8471
www.hobbypeople.net


As you can see, they know about the problems. I will put mine together and give you a flight report when I am done flying/crashing. Talk to you all soon.

Red


PS Has anyone made any more progress?

Well, there's nothing like an honest reply; if nothing else, it's a refreshing change. Maybe they felt they had nothing to lose by being straight as the plane is out of production..

Looks like mine may be a later model as the tail has been pre "swiss-cheesed", I also have an addendum included which mentions using a 60-70 sized 4 stroke...

My Kyosho Tiger Moth is need need of a few minor repairs after my initial attempts to fly it, so this project will be held at the back of the line for a while...

If anyone fancies a challenge, I'm open to offers

Hello All,
Well, mine is finally ready to take with me to the field tomorrow. I gave the entire airplane a dremel diet as suggested by Modeltech. The wings made a significant and noticable difference. I mounted a Tower Hobbies 61 up front, two servos for the wings and gave it better gear. I will have it balanced a little nose heavy for tomorrow, but that will be asily changed. Also, I did some rework and added a faux cowl behind the existing one that kind of tilts in. I figured that this will help in cooling and allow me to put my engine further forward.
Anyway, tomorrow night, I will post a follow up on how it did. I am really excited about it. This plane has had me scratching a hole in my head! I will be happy to see it leave the ground and return in as many pieces as she left in! Talk to you all tomorrow.


Red

Well, did it fly? Yea, I guess. Did it crash? Yea, pretty much. Is it done for? No, not yet. I worked too hard to just scrap the stupid thing. I hate being defeated by balsa! Anyway, I took off, everything looked good. With the Tower Hobbies .61 spinning a 12.25x3.75 prop and a nice set of dubro landing gear under it all, she tracked good and straight. After it left the ground, the ailerons goofed on me. I don't know if karma follows this airplane or what, but as soon as I realized the airlerons were not working, I flew it with the rudder, which did well. However, when it came in, I hit the tall grass and up and over she went, doing a full roll, face first. The vertical is broke; the rudder is broke; the elevator is broke. That's okay, I didn't like those pieces anyway! A little rework and she will fly again in a week or two.
I will keep you posted.


Red


PS Am I the only one reading this?

Flight report:


I hate this plane. This plane does not fly good. It does not fly even close to alright. It turns like a greyhound bus, corners like a crippled sloth, climbs like a dead monkey and has an all out flight performance of a Yugo! However, it does look nice!
I am in this hobby to fly the wheel pants off of my airplanes and to design and invent new flying aircraft. This model will play nicely into one of my evil schemes! (Muhahaha) The first thing I am going to do is take it back apart. I will remake the cabanes and center struts to better accomodate installation at the field. I am going to cut the fuselage up and make it longer, but while I am cutting it up, I will probably redo the fuselage in its entirity.
BEFORE I do all of this, I need to ask you all a question. If I am flying a well balanced aircraft around a turn, it tracks well with a little up elevator around the bend. This one will not turn a corner to save itself. Is it balanced wrong? I got the addendum from Modeltech for the new CG, but that does not help anything. I am powering it with a TH .61, so power is not an issue. What am I doing wrong? What can I do to fix it...before I hack it all up? Anyone? Please! Any comments welcome.

Red

Yes!! it's still in one peace
Flew mine finaly after many doubts (read more bad news than good news about this plane...)
I don't know what it is (maybe the gravity in the Netherlands is less ) but, it wasn't so bad at all.
Small report of preparation and the first flight;
- Preps;
Read this thread over and over and over... the more i think of all the bad report, the more i wanted this litle bipe to fly and land in one piece.
Contacted Hans by mail a few times about his setup (his plane has a few flights and is still in one piece, so imho he is the expert )
All my radio gear was placed as far to the front as possible (and save as possible...), i have the throtle servo mounted to the engine mount and the rx pack in the tank compartiment, all the other radio gear behind the tank.
The incidence of both wings out of the box is asking for horror, the setup of Hans or maybe everything on 0 degree is imho the only option to fly this litle bipe.
Balanced the plane more than 5 times to be sure that it is 100% perfect (balanced the plane inverted with the Great Planes tool).
I'm using a MVVS .45 turning an MA 11x6 @+/- 12000rpm.

- First flight;
As mentioned before, ground handeling realy s#cks (my buddies at the field asked me why i'm trying to fly this plane because they think its much better on the racing track...)
This plane needs a good amount of ground speed in a straight line, and thats realy hard to do.
After a few rounds over the circuit/field, finaly the tail came loose and up we go.
A few clicks of ailerons trim was needed to keep the wings traight, at half throtle its still trying to find the stars as soon as possible, so max down trim was needed. Ok, it's flying, calm down and keep it in sight because it's small and out of sight very quick. After a few circuits at half throtle i calmed down and tried a few full throtle low passes, realy nice!! the looks are great and at full speed it's flying like an airracer of the 50's.

Believe it or not, but i like this plane!! And i think it's a good trainer for my scale Swordfish project .
It's not an trainer and not a good second plane, but if you want to have a challenge this is a nice one!

THNX to Hans (and to the Robart incidence meter...).

I have had the Great Lakes for awhile now. Still in the rebuilding stages. Have a ton of weight in the front end. First flight was a mess. Lost control right after take off. Plane wanted to roll.
After getting 20ft from the ground it dove and hit the side of hill. It turns out that the hinges in this plane have a pin that will fall out. I am revising the hinges and will try to move all components forward. This plane had plenty of lift as I built per plans. I never had the opportunity to see it stall and will be very apprehensive and conduct test on this plane at safe atlittudes

BJamin
experience 14 years.

BJamin,
I have a little advice for you: Build this airplane, do a great job if you must and then take all of the valuable stuff out of it and hang it up. It is a beautifull airplane and is show quality. However, it is the worst airplane I have ever laid hands on. Take your valuable time and buy something worth having and worth flying.


Just my $0.02 worth.


Red

Hate to say it but all the bad comments about the Model Tech Great Lakes Bipe is true. I built my Bipe about fifteen years ago. I spent the better part of the winter finishing the plane out and covering and painting it to match the the picture on the box and all of the adds in the magazines exactly. If looks could fly my plane would be on the moon right now, unfortunately that wasnt the case. I had installed OS's hot 46SF-P and found the plane to be extremely tail heavy so after getting the largest brass prop nut offered and about 500 melted down lead sinkers custom cast to blend with the engine I had a very heavy somewhat tail heavy plane. I figured surey it would fly like a breeze and besides I had many hours under my belt and years of flying so figured how bad could it be. Well, the first day I line it up on the runway and slowly increased speed; when it reached take-off speed it darted right or left but whose to say which way. After several attemps and a couple broken props I called it a day and headed home. The second attempt I was determined to get it up and after a couple of its wacky characteristic jumps to the right or left I let anger get the best of me and went full steam ahead and leaped the flying rock into the air. Well that was the first and last time I had any control what so ever of the plane and after a few seconds of trying to get it under control it smashed the ground doing very little damage; but hey you cant hurt a flying lead ball. Neadless to say my plane now hangs in my shop for decoration and many people have been awed by it flashing good lucks and sad as it may be I had the beauty sold until my buyer read this site so now I still have a good looking fairly expense shop ornament.

Ah, the Modeltech Great Lakes. Only had to read a couple of sentences to realise that this was definitely the same one that I used to have.

First time out put a 46FX and the mandatory ton of lead in it. When I was able to cox it of the ground it used to fly like a demented squirrel!

Eventually damaged it and put it to one side, but in a moment of madness decided to repair and recover it. This time I extended the motor mount and lengthened the cowl to try and reduce the weight. Put a Magnum 52 4c in it with only 1/2 ton of lead. Motor was a good match for the plane but still very squirrely to fly.

I remarked to one guy that I hated to fly the thing, when he asked the inevitable question "why fly it then" I replied that "I always feel good AFTER I've flown it!"

Kept it for a while and took it out from time to time when I felt that I needed to challenge myself. Eventually it decided for reasons unknow to fall out of the sky (from level flight). It still could have been repaired but to avoid future tempation to do so I stomped on the remains!

I guess all in all I got my money's worth out of it! If anyone still has one around I would definitely recommend lengthening the nose to reduce the nose weight required.


Terry

As many have stated on this thread I too have had a love hate relationship with this airplane. Sometimes I hate to admit it but this is my second one. I love the way the first one looked but hated the way it flew. After many flights and minor mishaps (usually on landings) I lost the first great Lakes due to a dead stick landing through a fence. These airplanes glide like a brick. I performed many modifications on the second one. It flys much better, but I do not recomend it to any one who is looking for a fun fly or highly aerobatic airplane. The landings are still tricky. It must be flown all the way down, then flair only after the wheels are nearly touching the ground.

Well I dusted off my second Great Lakes on Saturday. Charged the batteries and ran the engine up. Everything worked perfectly. I was impressed since it had been hanging in my garage for at least two years. Probably longer. I have been a little scared of it. Took it out to the field on Sunday and had a blast with it. I forgot how bloody fast this plane is with a 70 four stroke up front. Was able to do all of the scale maneuvers as long as the speed was kept up. I did flip it on it's back on one landing that I came too fast. But no damage. As has been mentioned before, you definitely have a sense of accomplishment after a successful day with this airplane!

I'm ready to go again.

Thanks for posting. I think this is the first post I have seen where someone flew it and liked it!

It definitely takes a steady hand. No yanking it around. No room for error on your landing approach. I guess most of these planes are long gone. That's too bad. I think I have finally figured this one out.

Just had my Great Lakes out today. I have been flying it occasionally and have really started to ring it out. It is very fast and always gets positive comments on it from onlookers. We radared it today at a little over 80mph. I thought it was going faster than that, but the gun don't lie. I can usually land it gracefully, but it still gets a little jiggy once in a while.

If anyone knows of a NIB airframe or a really nice unflown finished model, I would like to take it off your hands. I have some modification ideas that I would like to try on another one.

thanks,

Steve

This one flew, but I did not care for it. I traded it fo a .60 size VK Cherokee that I realy liked. Capt,n

That biplane of yours is a Svenson Wayfarer based on the RCM Hobo. I built one back in '76 and loved how it flew. I still have it and in the process of recovering it. It was a great kit.

Bruce