Aeroworks ? One of the higher dollar ARF's, is the quality that much better to justify the price.

In my experience, no.

They have a wide selection to fit almost any size or flying style. The several I have owned were no better than Great Planes/Topflite or Hangar 9 which I consider to have excellent ARF's.

They cost considerably more but were no better in quality or flyability.

Many suppliers subscribe to a high exposure marketing concept. Put your product in the hands (free or very cheaply) of the top competiton pilots and hot dog show offs. The more exposure, the more your name comes up as the defacto standard. Many fall for this trap thinking it is the product making great flying possible when it really is pilot skill. But don't confuse them with facts until after they have spent their money.

Pilot skill has everything to do with it and setting up the plane well, Oh and right plane for what you want to with do it! I had one of the guys from our club that had moved to another state back visiting ask me how I was flying as well as I do for the time I have been in it compared to his flying as long as he had, I asked him how many gallons of fuel he goes through a year, he said one maybe two. I told him I have gone through ten so far this summer, now eleven since then! I fly allot, I see someone do something and I work on it till I get it figured out on how its done! Yes there are far better pilots then me, but I have learned allot by doing it as offten as I can! I get very little sleep during flying season! I learned as much as I could with the trainer before moving on and then the sticks and to low wing aircraft. just hands on, I read and ask questions and watch crasher video's just to see where things went wrong, I do not like to see them crash, but learn by them! All the ARF's I have bought get all glue joints touched up and all hinges get pinned, But I have seen OK Arf's to better Arf's, None are built without going through them first. I prefer building but some times an Arf will get you in the air much faster, if it says 15 hours to put together always takes me allot more time but I feel it is a safer plane with what has been done, Never have I lost a plane do to one coming apart in the air, Dumb thumbs and dead stick, I have 53 airplanes 20 ready to fly at all times! I love to fly but never get fast on the build of the Arf's just take my time and have faired well!

My doctor told me I would need allot more therapy, so I bought more planes!

My answer is no. Even their parts are extremely high priced compared to others, especially compared to GP. Take the 60 size Extra 260 wing set. It sells for 149.00 and is cheaply built compared to a GP Rev 70 wing set. I think the thing is with AeroWorks is they are built well for being as light as they are.

They are very strong for the weight. The main thing with the cost of the ARF is the manuals are very good and well laid out. After almost finishing a recently crashed Extra 260 I was very disapointed in quality of the aircraft and at the ARF costing 274.00. I suppose I was expecting higher quality.

In their defense they do have a very good looking airframe with quality cuts, and good fitting parts. I have never heard of anyone buying an AeroWorks and having poor slotting, poor quality components, or a poor quality manual. Would I pay the difference between say a GP and AeroWorks? No, after buying three GPs I would have enough left over for another airplane. But even more buy what you really like. We have a guy at our field that is nothing but an AeroWorks man. 90% of his fleet is AW. [8D]

Oh, another point about AeroWorks is that due to the lightweight you can power the planes with smaller engines. Well with engines in the lower end of the the range the plane was built for. The Extra 260 can fly very well with a 61FX whereas the Rev 70, due to the extra weight, would really do better with something around 90 size.

The fellow at our field that has all the AWs power them with 61s. I kidded with him one day and ask him if he had a case of OS 61s on hand I plan to put a GMS 76 on my Extra 260 and see how it does.

How many other 60 size airframe are tested with a 60 size engines? That would be a good forum topic [8D]

Yes, the AeroWorks planes, at least the 60 size ones, fly very well with 60 engines. I've had 4 of them (still got 3) and they're excellent with 60s on 'em.

MOF, the Yak 54 of mine, with it's OS61FX was clocked at 91mph the other week. Do I fly it around at that speed? Nah, but the extra speed helps loads on very windy days. It's vertical is excellent and at 3/4 throttle it's perfect for maneuvers. It's a 6.5lb airplane. My other AWs are 7lb airplanes. The previous two 60 size by other mfg's were 8lbs airplanes.

All of mine weighed in at or less than the advertised weights. That's something that is worth the money. I've got/had a number of other brand ARFs that are now sold or gathering dust that didn't come in at their advertised weight. And had a couple that had weak areas that cost me. The AWs seem to come with absolutely top of the line hardware (I've only assembled 4 so far) and I've yet to find a weakness of any kind.

It's often said of cheap ARFs that "you get what you pay for". When for most cheap ARFs, that ought to be, "you aren't getting what you don't pay for". So far, that's exactly true of the performance ARFs I've bought. In fact, the AWs provided even more value than I've paid for. I wish AW produced a 60 size Ultimate, and a........ lots of other planes.

Bottom line is that almost all ARFs are good values if you buy what suits you and your flying style and are an experienced ARF user. If you just bore holes in the sky the premium mfgs prices are a bit excessive for your needs. But getting what you pay for is true for a lot of mfg's both the top end and the bottom.

Which basically goes against the gist of this entire thread.... that this is not necessarily true, though often assumed to be.

Graupner & kavan = expensive tat.
Build manuals are a joke & show a different plane to the one your actually building!! lol

Typically when you import some product it is paid for prior to even being loaded on the boat. Even though SIG is having some problems I don't buy the lack of funds story. Until they can find another vendor for their Kadet Senior ARF and the LT40 ARF their will be no more of them that SIG claims.

SIG side of the story is that someone is copying their Senior and LT40 ARFs - could even be their original vendor for those planes.

Todd

In my experance ....................Yes

I haven't had there smaller size planes so on that I couldn't comment. But I do have the two of there 50cc planes and the quality throught out was obvious. The build, the hardware, directions, the finished product and flight characteristics. A classic example would be three jig patterns supplied for motor of choice, one being blank so if you choose not to install the suggested motor you could addapt one of choice.
Piped for cannisters or tuned pipes and all these selection explained in the manual on CD.

Living in Australia cost of getting one these birds is premium due to P&H, so dollar for pound is always a strong consideration.

I've compared some of the Aeroworks ARF's to Pilot-RC and I really cannot see what the hype over AW is.
The Pilot-RC is better made for less money. From the covering to the laser cut ply, they're better in every repect.

Quality is subjective and can be influenced by things such as brand name and price.

Do you guys know how much is the mark up in hobbies? 700%. That is because is not a need.
Well maybe is not a need for normal people, but for us sick, addicted airplane people is a need as eating and sleeping.
Most if not all ARFs are made in China. They prodeced them by the thousands, quick and with low labor wages, so of course some of them are not right.
I recently finished a P51D Mustang and the retracts did not fit at all, it was like it was from a different plane. But for us, all thumbs people, bulding from kids is not an alternative. I better learn to read and speak chinesse.

An advertised ARF should not require any re glueing. It should be ready to fly. If they are not sufficiencly glued, they should be labled almost read to be glued. If you feel any diffent you are a dumb***.

Seeing as I started this thread I thought I would uploadphotos of the offending model.
This is my new Graupner / Black Horse P47 Thunderbolt. It was labels Graupner but it is identical in every way to the Black Horse one.
Its nearly ready for its test flight.


Ray

Why do so many think that because it is an ARF that we should have to re-do them with glue and proper supports? Makes no sense. If it needs more glue pack it up and ship it back to the seller and tell them to fix it (well, that is if they will take it back). Yeah, I know it won't work, but hey it is a good thought.

I have a very nice bridge to sell you!

If you assume that any plane you purchase is sufficiently constructed, glued, etc. no matter the vendor... you should really find another hobby as this one's not for you.

That may be sad, but it's true, given the price we pay for ARF's.

If the planes were manufactured here, things would be VERY different, and vastly more expensive.

This is where we start the Ford vrs Holden battle........................... But with AW vrs Pilot we are talking Ferrari V Holden

Here's a useless fact did you know that a Ferrari at 30 000 kl service requires brakes and clutch / gearbox work around about the $25 000-$30 000 mark

Hey when all said and done it's what you like and what you fly, personal experience and what you spend your money on DA vrs DLE RC Pilot vrs AW
Cheap Chinesse vrs Hanger 9

The market is consumer driven and allways will be, I don't know about you guys but take into consideration the materials + labour there is no way I can produce a medium size ARF for $200-$300 dollars
Do your home work share your trials and errors, thats what makes this hobby great

{Note: Holden is "Chevy" in Austrailian}.

HOldens are cheaply made but have you actually looked under th skin of a Ferrari. You;ll be amazed how low tech it is! Strip away the beautiful covering and underneath typically is a steel space frame thats not that nicely welded. The 348 used a aluminim panels welded to a steel space frame (Yes welded and that bit is rather hi-tech)

There more tehcnology in the assembly of a Holden. Problem is neither are reliable in any way. One is just more expensive and prettier than the other.
Sex sells and AW uses that don't they

"Touche " Timble

"first of all to my first 2 Black Horse Texans and then this farse of the same model being sold as different models by 2 different manufacturers. "


Seagull's AT-6 and Black Horse are different - don't know if they are made by or at the same company, but here is how the front end of the Seagull looks .....

I didnt say that the seagull and black horse models are the same. My Black Horse Texan was clearly different than the photos you have shown.
I was comparing the Graupner and Black Horse Thunderbolt. There are probably quite a few models out there that are indentical in every way but sold under different names in different labeled boxes.

Ray.

What Pennbritt is saying is quite simple been there done that, I had a Graupner Extra which I busted the fuselage big time, I contacted the distributor here for the price of a spare. At that time the plane new was £129 the spare fuselage was £80. I hunted around the net and noticed that the Seagull models Extra looked pretty much the same apart from the Pilot Patty Wagstaff had a sex change but who cares who was driving it. I was on holiday in Florida and I found a supplier for the fuselage who sent it to Florida for about $80 including postage , i took a chance on that but when it arrived it even had similar part numbers in the same location and all my Graupner parts swapped straight over. So too back up Pennbritt we don't get always get the extra quality we believe we are paying for, when I buy Graupner I don't expect Seagull models or BH for that matter. There is also the issue of glueing joints which are lacking or have insufficient glue, if we all took this crap back as NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE the importers would get the message, after all would you be happy to buy a new car and the dealer have you spotweld a few panels because the guys at the factory couldn't be bothered to do their job properly.

"Pilot Patty Wagstaff had a sex change" ????

Badge engineering such as Black Horse / Graupner with price differences only motivated by brand names is quite common.

One good example is in cars. In Europe Toyota, Citroen and Peugeot has developed a common car known named Aygo, C1 and 107 respectively.
The cars are very much alike with the exception of some trim details and are all built in the same factory in the Czech Republic.

In Sweden where I live the Toyota costs $15,370, the Citroen $14,540 and the Peugeot $13,710.
Goes figure...